C stands for CVE. Defend your 47yo error-prone language when alternatives exist

elegant language that combines the right mix of language features with great metaprogramming ability.
its like C++ was written in the modern era and properly thought out from the start, not tacking on features with every revision, or if Rust didn't get so many design decisions wrong and had many more decades of experience.

Rust and D share the same fate: dead language used by people with no lives.
>oh joy I can't wait for my compiler to tell me what I can and can't do!

C++ faggot who laughs at rust regularly here. Red pill me on D.

>implying
Have you ever considered it might be because you're the one at fault when it complains?

I'm learning Rust by making a simple game, and I've found few issues so far.
The only complaint I have so far is the 'magic' of auto deref, and how pattern matching with borrows works.
I actually haven't had any big issues dealing with the borrow checker.

>C stands for CVE
xir angrily typed as formal verification of rust programs was still nowhere in sight
meanwhile Chad was sipping on his covfefe after finishing a first-ever full WCET analysis of a kernel, seL4
>m-muh memory safety
>m-m-muh modules
xir blabbered under his nose
Chad laughed and read CompCert proof for the 7th time this months
>such a delightful feeling, to be able to write safe programs
>i wonder when rustcels, if ever, finally get a taste of this
C you in the next episode of rustcel adventures!

i will NEVER use C again and switch to rust if you tell me how much do you get paid to shill it every single day.

>formal verification of rust
plv.mpi-sws.org/rustbelt/popl18/paper.pdf

>implying
rustbelt is nowhere near being usable, still stuck modeling lifetime semantics
good luck in the upcoming decade though

Rust isnt even safe? whats the fucking point then

>whats the fucking point then
trannies spreading fud to get capable people (C hads) do real work for them

Not him but if I use Rust it's not for the safety. It's for a modern C++ deriv with a proper build and dependency system.

Nice digits. So how did you do it?

That's literally what compilers are for you genius.

sure but rust compiler is being asshole about it.

It's called refusing shit-quality code that's bound to introduce bugs.

>Do people experienced in rust still feel like they’re jumping through hoops to keep the compiler happy?
No. After a while it all seems logical and justified. Sure, sometimes I stump onto situation where I'm not entirely sure how to express complex lifetimes or borrowing, but it's just matter of rethinking the situation.

user please post command.
I once tried to make transparent webms but didn't managed to do it.

It's more safe than all other systems programming languages

Hey OP, I'm a Rust programmer, and I just wanted to say that you're a child and that you're giving the Rust community a bad name. Fuck off.

>It's more safe than all other systems programming languages
Now we wait for all the self-proclaimed aircraft security engineers.

>It's more safe than all other systems programming languages
Prove it, fag.

>your 47yo error-prone language
True

> alternatives exist
False

/thread

static analysis, formal verification

/thread.

Aircraft security restrictions and bureaucracy doesn't change the fact how does the language works and it's rules.

Nah, I'd rather do actual work than try to prove something so obvious to anonymous poster. You probably wouldn't be satisfied with any arguments for Rust's safety, except very formal proof, writing which would take more time than this thread lifetime.

Easy.
• FP is academia meme that will never be adequate for systems programming.
• C is full of UBs and half of its features are stuff you should never use in practice.
• C++ has no borrow checker.
• Basic and assembly are self-explanatory.
• D and Nim's type systems have nowhere the same level of theoretical proof and peer-reviewing as Rust's.
• Contrarily to what NEETs will tell you, formal verification tools are not part of the languages.

Rust uses functional idioms by default, retard, you have to opt-in to imperative semantics

Call me back when mutable references don't exist anymore in Rust.

Been using Rust for a while -- no, it's come to seem completely natural. once you get comfortable with it you'll realize how logical lifetimes and ownership are and appreciate immutable state by default and won't find yourself fighting with the compiler much at all.

You will never be a women.

>>oh joy I can't wait for my compiler to tell me what I can and can't do!
In other words, exactly what a compiler is supposed to do?

C++ is just too powerful to use. there's too much code out there for it. I can't stop using it!

once again, the only argument against rust is
>muh trannies
Embarrassing. You're proving that Rust > C/C++

there are multiple entire classes of bugs which are not possible in Rust

>Meanwhile C/C++ chads are making bank

>While Rustlets are still angrily typing at a Korean basket weaving forum

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yeah generally i use go where i would have used c 10 years ago

Superior alternatives to C have existed since before C. Superior *practical* alternatives to C for x86 CPUs have been around since the 1980s.

While you wait, check out Object Pascal, a systems AND application programming language with generics, modules and a simple object system. It has an insanely fast open source compiler, Free Pascal.
dubst3pp4.github.io/post/2017-10-03-why-i-use-object-pascal/

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i dare say algol 68 was better than c

certainly has nearly every single features that the c++ fags, haskellfags and rustfags all think are "revolutionary"

>certainly has nearly every single features that the c++ fags, haskellfags and rustfags all think are "revolutionary"
Which features do you have in mind?

Why would anyone want to be a woman? Looking like an anime girl would be pretty cool, but anime girls should not be confused with women.

Might be but the industry choices.
Same reason why haskel or even pascal is still used today.

Basic was cool back in the 80s got dropped pretty quick after early 90s.
For C/C++.

>Nah, I'd rather shitpost instead of admitting Rust is nowhere near C or Ada when it comes to safety
>formal verification tools are not part of the languages
Coq, Idris, Ats, Agda, ...
Nevertheless, what's your point? If you actually care about safety, you either use C or Ada on SPARK. If you don't, then C++ is on equal footing with Rust's borrow checker since there's no guarantee the compiler implements it correctly.
Yeah, Rust's type system seems pretty good. Everything else is worse than C++, including syntax (ghow the fuck do you manage to achieve that???).
Nice filter you developed. Formal proofs gave you PTSD in undergrad?
Prove it. So far, the only people trying to do that are stuck on lifetime semantics - the biggest "safety" feature of Rust.

>but it's just matter of rethinking the situation.
now i know you are just a hobbyst that hasnt written much more than a few hello world applications.
imagine having to adapt to the tools instead of the other way around lool

sorry but thats just not how it works in the real world

Pic related, Jow Forums is a rust-free zone.

It's all black, maybe the player is black though.

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Good luck user

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D is the one who got away.. beautiful language, elegant, modern.. thats plagued by awful owners
>technical debt from half assed implementations amd hacks that dont get tackled ever
>bugs.. bugs.. bugs.. BUGS EVERYWHERE! the GC is slow and leaks! the owners dont care
>the owners use it as a toy, they (badly and hackly) implement any feature they find cool
>latest craze is adding a borrow checker because all the cool kids want one! meanwhile bugs are still pilling up
>many past features are half implemented and buggy, they dont care because the hype is gone
>the same will happen to the borrower when they get bored with it and move to another craze
>meanwhile contracts, multiple alias this, std, etc, etc are left in the dirt

fuck them for destroying such a beatiful language.. i hate them all
>t. D fan for almost 15 years that is sad to see such a great tool being handled by retards

>>Nah, I'd rather shitpost instead of admitting Rust is nowhere near C or Ada when it comes to safety
I'd happily discuss whenever Ada is more safe than Rust, as both of these languages have similar goal on mind. But if you even consider C, it's clear you are just baiting.

I wrote many Rust projects, from small wrappers to raytracers and full fledged web services. It all hobby projects, but I also wrote real commercial software in other technologies.
So what exactly works differently in real world? You mean that in real world you never get any troubles with rust rules or that rethinking and changing approach is not the way to solve it?

>Jow Forums strefa wolna od LGBT
>codzienne programistyczne skarpetki nitka idź
>sugerowanie

use lisp

>Everything else is worse than C++, including syntax
No.

Start with the template syntax.

good lord imagine typing all that out

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>But if you even consider C, it's clear you are just baiting
Oh sure, the reason seL4 is implemented in C is because it's unsafe. They just wanted a challenge, right? VST builds on C because it's so very unsafe. Virtually all progress in formal verification (shape anal, thread-modular anal for lockfree structures, ...) being based on C is surely because it's so bad for verification, unlike rust which still resists attempts to formalize its semantics because it's just so damn good for safety.
>try to write system
>uh oh, no library for that
>k, i'll just write my bindings
>oh shit, it's fucking mess (see wlroots attempts for an example)
>uh, ok i guess i'll just use the C/++ lib and introduce another buttload of dependencies into my build
Dilate.

No matter who use it and what community made tools are available, it all doesn't prove or change the safety of language. C is very unsafe language, it allows for all sorts of bug which are simply impossible in Rust by design.

>All these foaming in the mouth Xir-xirplet shouting muh safety in this thread

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Can trannies swim in the sea? Wont they sink due to the hole in their body?

>impossible in Rust
Prove it (:
As long as you can't do that, C and Ada have you beat, tools not being part of language is precisely irrelevant when you care about safety.
For now, all rust offers is a cool placebo wrt. safety. Any kind of safety. Even C++ has better guarantees with regards to placebo - vC++ correctly implements smart pointers.

>>try to write system
redox-os.org/
Seethe.

Actually, the only good thing about C++ is clang and its very clean libc++ with pstl and shit.

If you are not on clang++ (with libc++) and Linux you are fucked.

the mere idea that a sane adult working the software industry is still arguing that c/c++ is better than Rust is enough to immediately stop the argument with him

I still believe that most of them are 14 year olds claiming to be devs or some unemployable boomers whose last job was before 9/11

>assume: rust satisfies all mozshilla marketing claims
>assume: mozshilla's rust compiler is implemented correctly
Genius. Did you also prove Kleene fixed-point theorem by assuming it's true?
And it's trivial interop with C, and it's ecosystem, and it's portability, and it's backwards-compatibility, and it's standardization, ...
C++ is getting contracts, might be fun to watch if the significant investment required to use rust still makes sense then for the pseudosafe systems.

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>As long as you can't do that, C and Ada have you beat
That's fine. If you can't see why Rust and Ada are safer than C, you won't change your mind even if I write you all the differences between these languages. You either don't know Rust or you are trolling.
As I said, if you want to discuss Ada and Rust, I'm all for it. But if you compare C and Rust, it's clear you are memeing.

>compare C and Rust
C
>formalized semantics
>verified optimizing compiler
>tools to extract Coq models from ACSL and source
>ability to write an actually safe system
>condition: don't be a retard and use tools available
Rust
>markenting claims about safety
>formalization of semantics stuck at arguably the most significant part of claims about safety of rust
Yeah, i know exactly why you do not want to compare the two. Dilate.
SPARK is implementing the verified parts of borrow checker (thx rustbelt), so rust is meaningless even before its full formalization. The only use-case for it is if you need to hit diversity quota and hire some rustcel genderfluid otherkin.

Your programming language sucks balls, just as you.

Call me when Rust can integrate with C++. Until then I'll stick with code that actually exists.

REMINDER THAT RUST ECOSYSTEM IS LITERALLY NPM TIER
>install package
>2873 dependencies get installed on your system

REMINDER THAT RUST ECOSYSTEM IS LITERALLY NPM TIER
>ask for help for doing something
>just install my package bro!

REMINDER THAT RUST ECOSYSTEM IS LITERALLY NPM TIER
>dont agree with something
>get baned and called a nazi

REMINDER THAT RUST ECOSYSTEM IS LITERALLY NPM TIER
>try to join the community
>get called on for basically anything
>literally a cult

no thanks.

its a shame too, because the language itself is actually interesting, written by people who actually work and know what they're doing

too bad it got taken over by a bunch of zealots, fanatics, regressives that don't actually contribute to it, but control all aspect of its community and ecosystem

Do you have any link to support any of these claims?

>too bad it got taken over by a bunch of zealots, fanatics, regressives that don't actually contribute to it, but control all aspect of its community and ecosystem
Like who?

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WEW hahahahahaha

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>for every male there should be a female, but they got pushed out by the community
these soys actually believe this..

Is this just going to be a recurring general from now on? You should call it /rg/ or something like that.
Also, I never understand the point of these threads. If you're working on something above a kernel and starting completely from scratch, you shouldn't have to use C in the first place. C++ is a much better alternative.
Secondly, for any large project, the number one consideration is usually tooling (libraries, build system, etc.), rust just isn't there in terms of ecosystem maturity, compared to C/C++, perhaps it will be in a couple of years though. Practical experience in practice is much more valuable than any language-level guarantees.
And from a purely language-theoretic standpoint, ATS is a much better systems language since it essentially gives you language level access to lifetime proofs.
If you want a C++ killer, then it needs to be backwards compatible with C++. It's the same reason why C++ is a C "killer." Most programs (user space to kernel space), were written in C and the only reason everything is in C++ now is that people could pick and choose which new features they want and upgrade codebases over time. And still a ton of code is in C simply because upgrading something that works and is heavily tested isn't worth it from a business and practical perspective. Perhaps something like Ada/SPARK, conditionally turning on a borrow check for sections of C++ code might be an idea. Other than that, even the most CVE-ridden systems will stay CVE-ridden simply due to stability.

How do these random fags control ecosystem and community?
They have no power outside of that safe space discord.

That's stupid but what does mascot have to do with ecosystem and community?

How is this absolute control? Some fag made an issue and it was ignored. Nothing changed.

...

For me it's Go

>That's stupid but what does mascot have to do with ecosystem and community?
According to Jow Forums, all that matters in a project is the logo. A mascot is a quasi-logo.

>making bank
Rust is literally being used to make a bank

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go fills a different niche than rust, c, c++, crystal, D, etc.
go is good for web services but JFC the syntax is bad and generics are nothing but positive.

None of the things you linked show any fanatics controlling all aspects of community and ecosystem.
Sure there is plenty of regressive libtards bitching about irrelevant things. But no one of them has full control over these things. Just don't go to discord(use IRC) do not take part in their non technical community and no one will have any power over you nor will call you out.

>yet another crypto

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I'm using it to cheat in video games

So are diversity hires at pozzed google only knowing Python.

I think I sort of know what you're saying here but next time please try not to write a sentence made entirely of buzzwords

>Rust is bad because BASEDKEKSJWTRANNYGAYPOZZEDDILATE!!!
Jesus Christ, what happened to this thread?

Every Rust thread is like this.

Only trouble is the script really is called Python.

honestly once I internalized the borrow semantics it was a breeze. the type system and compiler give you so much shit for free that languages like C++ require a blood payment for.
unfortunately I will die of old age waiting for hello_world to compile

ignore these pseuds, young ones

Ada says hi

works in firefox when not fullscreen