How can an app lose this much money?

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>How can an app lose this much money?
How can anyone be such a brainlet?

...

Operational costs, they pay their developers like 150k starting. The total comp for everything the company pays in is probably like 1.5x that

mybe people are getting a bit smarter, not everything has to be online and an app?
i hope so

youtube.com/watch?v=c4TlmkhE3Mw

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Their entire business model was predicated on the "level 5 autonomous driving by 2020" meme. Turns out there's a limit to how much VCs will subsidize cab fares.

>150k starting
No wonder why Uber is losing money. This is just unsustainable business.

They spend a ton of money on marketing.

don't forget lawyers

that's pocket change to them

>Kolodny
>>>>/cyb/

I don't know man I lost my dog for like a week but he came home so it's all good now

Probably pay less tax like this.

Uber is a company.

Also, what are their stocks looking like right now?

I swear this is the next bubble. When investors realise that there is next to no way of makeing money from this and companies like Lyft, Uber and a lot of these start ups and pull out. .com bubble V2.0

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how the fuck do you lose 5 billion dollars?
it's not exactly the same as losing a nickle

tax evasion and/or money laundering

kek I love the usa now

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ask the Pentagon, I hear they're very good at that.

we hate europoors

posting from commiefornia
((ooof))
my thoughts exactly whenever I hear of fantastical sums of money evaporating in venture capitalism

insider leak claims stock options comp reporting for the quarter is the cause.

Uber and Lyft built their business around destroying existing industry and subjugating markets with sheer venture capital force before the lawmakers catch up with their gray area bullshit. The lawmakers caught up. Those taxi medallions bring in a lot of money for cities and hell if they're going to let the value get trashed or the money siphoned off. Now that Uber has to play by the rules, making money is a lot harder.

This will probably one of the biggest destruction of wealth of a generation.

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>How can an app lose this much money?

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good explanation
hopefully it stabilizes before the rest of the economy follows suit

>>How can an app lose this much money?

funneled it into someone else's pockets more liek it amirite huehue

How do you think they can charge $7 for a ride and keep everything running?

by having the driver pay for depreciation of the car?

This.

americanaffairsjournal.org/2019/05/ubers-path-of-destruction/

So people started hitchhiking or what? Uber is way cheaper than normal cabs.

Holy shit you guys are idiots.

Wrong, Uber isn't suffering because of any municipal legislation.

Here's how it actually works:
>app market emerges because of Apple
>investors all own smart phones and, having something in their hand to actually look at all day, their small brains become convinced its a good investment model
>startup claims they have a groundbreaking whatever powered by an app, investors dump billions into the startup
>startup has no reason to be profitable because they are just spending investor money to gain marketshare, you just say you'll sell app user's data or something to make up the difference even though everyone has already sold out their data 100x times already
>all that investor money is a lot of bank so it actually manages to last a long time, but the app never becomes profitable because it's just a fucking app
>even if you want to make your app profitable, you can't because you'll lose to competition from some other app that willfully conducts business unprofitably
>ten years later you go bankrupt when you finally run out of investor cash

Google Moviepass and get a clue. The main argument we might not be looking at another recession is that phone apps are so productively useless 99.9999999% of the time that maybe the economy will realize that the only thing that was lost was rich old people's flippant spending cash.

>This will probably one of the biggest destruction of wealth of a generation.
What is crypto?

Holy shit you're retarded.
It's like you think Uber is just an app when they're a fucking company spending out the ass on things like automated driving research.

Many companies are doing this, in fact driving apps are the only unprofitable ones. You're merely proving the point that it's an unprofitable business. They pay for insurance and routing for car rides with hundreds of millions of rides and can't even break even.

It used to be that way but when Uber went public, they lost their startup funding resulting to higher ride fares to compensate drivers and backend developers. It's not different from yellowcab in my city these days. A lot of these gig platforms run at a loss and ride on venture capitalist investments but as soon as they go public, funds dry up if the company doesn't make profit.

They have to get good developers somehow. All these companies are competing with FAANG and hedge funds. If anything, they should be paying MORE.

they are

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I'm not jealous and I dunno how to say this without sounding jealous, but programmers are extremely overpaid for their skills.

You just type logic into a computer, and most of you are only skilled with one particular syntax of logic.

Yes skills are easy when you learn them, wow.

Imagine being a data-scientists being paid $200k by a losing company.

I am a red-hot ball of flaming envy.

Not my point, which has nothing to do with programmers, it has to do with payroll.

That's still pretty low. You notice how so many L4s and 5s are leaving for companies like Jump Trading. They have the potential to make millions from performance bonuses.

>cry for end to gig economy
>minimum rates now
>uber going to die out before driverless vehicles come

>They have the potential to make millions from performance bonuses.
soon FANG will pay millions to developers, turns out the high housing price was not high after all.

Most are paid alot less, the reason these get paid so much is that the companies don't want pajeet tier coders.

I work in one of the big companies, and trust me you can tell who knows their stuff and who is just typing random code from google

They still don't pay as good. The Principal dev at Google and Microsoft for images (google image and bing) is now at a hedge fund. Makes sense - imagine working for a huge tech company and developing something billions of people use and getting paid only a measly 6-7 figures for it.

Uber is investing into driverless too and full driverless automation is likely decades away.

brainlet post

Except the only thing that's hurting them is paying the drivers a minimum rate/wage

Most cities with medallions was all regulated or put on hold that's why they were worth so much because you can't get one from the city but can sell the license. Medallions going for millions in NY is stupid

Yes but that's the only time their pricing model works.

When you don't need $ for the driver that's profit for uber, instead at the moment most trips cost them money

user, you're probably paid much more than the average engineer, and I see no reason your skills are harder to obtain, and I see no real value over your work as compared to an engineer's.

Again, not jealous, good for you for getting your paycheck at the point in your life that you are, but I'm still going to say that you're overpaid.

>you're probably paid much more than the average engineer

45k? Doubt it

I wonder, do drivers really make enough money to pay for wages (anything above min. wage), cars (gas, maintenance, etc)?

That's because they produce more work than the average engineer.

What do audio engineers do? Fine tune some equalizer that works with some speaker configuration for a concert? Wow.

I can go on and on about what each other engineer does but I'll tell you what a softare engineer can do. They can make you a website, program, app with all the frizzles and shit you want within a week or so. They produce results within weeks, something other engineers take MONTHS to do. Honestly if you hate that programmers get paid so much go be a programmer, more people in that job sector= less money for all.

Laughably wrong. All these companies can cut their costs by 90% and turn on the profit faucet whenever they damn please. They continue to invest so when that profit faucet is turned on, it will be maximized.

The fuck? How? We have some uber-like services here in yurop and those make a profit. How is Uber different?

Not really a bubble. That suggests that they have a false perceived value. No, this is an arms race and when one crashes the other becomes a monopoly. They're trying to choke each other out, and taxis have already kind of priced themselves out of the market in major cities. It all depends on how long they can sustain it

>New York City is introducing a minimum-pay rate for drivers working for app-based services such as Uber and Lyft. Drivers must now be paid a minimum of $27.86 per hour, or $17.22 after expenses, which city officials say translates to a yearly increase of roughly $10,000


>El Monte, California passes $30 Uber, Lyft minimum wage

Because of shit like this

What you have is traditional cab companies that paid some IT company to make them an app.
BOOM, instant UBER.
Even if UBER gets driverless cars, the big automakers will be tops a few years behind, so then anyone with money can buy the cars and start their own mini-Uber.
Uber's problem is that they have 0 advantage efficiency wise and have been so far subsidised by investor $$$$

>Also, what are their stocks looking like right now?
stock price has been down since end of july.

> OH NOES! incredibly cancerous corporations fucking contracted employees in the ass have to pay a fair wage!!11
> I expect people to work for corporations for free!

Moviepass is circling the drain because their business model was already built on sinking sand. Netflix and streaming is already killing big multiplex theatres. Moviepass tried being the Netflix of theaters without actually securing any legit partnerships in the industry. It only took one major chain (AMC) cancelling their deal and bundling an even more enticing offer with their already existing membership program, to drop Moviepass into the toilet.

is this why it got more expensive? I thought it was because I moved

If it's so easy, where is your multi-billion app user?

they try to imitate Amazon's model by having large growth and bigger market share at the expense of profits, but the business of ridesharing is much more costly and geo-dependent than having an online store, also Amazon is much more established and has diversified businesses, e.g. AWS that covers the losses of their explorations in uncertain markets

Dude the average developer doesn't get paid nearly as much as the people working for these companies.

Also stop being jealous.

>$28-30/h is fair wage for driving jobs

development, maintenance and management, customer support, advertising and promotional offers. all on top of already low margins.

>before expenses
You think Uber picks up the tab for gas and car maintenance, brainlet?

wait a mnute not american but PBS is a tax payed right?
why the hell isnt all the content in the public domain?

>an oil change once a year
>implying regular jobs don't burn gas getting there which you don't get back

Driving 8 hours a day or more wears everything in the car faster than driving one hour each day, you dummy.

Uber drivers need to change oil, tires or do regular maintenance shit at least once every other month.

LOL

do you even own a car you fucking zoomer

You think uber drivers do 30-60k miles a month and have to replace tyres. They wouldn't even be doing enough miles to reach their service interval in a month. And no one does it for 8 hours, that's the fucking point

Jow Forums should give people that invest for a living some investment advice.

>And no one does it for 8 hours, that's the fucking point
That's were you're wrong kiddo.

Buy BTC and short Uber.

It's essentially impossible to lose 5 BILLION dollars in one QUARTER just hiring very well compensated engineers. Even if we assume total cost of salary and benefits for an engineer is $500,000/year, they'd need to have *40,000* such engineers to burn the kind of money they're losing. They're losing money subsidizing the rides. Unbelievable as it may seem, even though the drivers can barely make a livable wage, Uber is still losing money paying those drivers' wages. In order for Uber to break even with its current fleet of human-driven cars, it's going to have to raise the rates it charges users of the service. And you know if they do that, a substantial number of users will either go to Lyft or stop using ride sharing services altogether.

Yes. The business model of companies like Uber or "Carsharing" companies, is to destroy the Taxi market simply by not falling under the same restrictions that taxis have.

Here in my city the Taxis have mandated by law how much they charge and their "non-Taxi" competition is able to undermine them simply because they are allowed to charge less.

MOIA, a Volkswagen business is doing exactly that.
They are claiming to do "ride-sharing" where a single car will pick up multiple people, but in reality they are mostly just normal taxis WITHOUT falling under the same restrictions.

As soon as these companies are legislated the same way as taxis, they have no business advantage anymore.

don't they also have to pay 30% of their income to apple/google ?? what a terrible business model

>What is crypto?
Some billions of dollars of malinvestment. Meanwhile, there are trillions of dollars of malinvestment in negative interest-yielding bonds, junk bonds that have low coupons, and stocks in companies that are leveraged to kingdom come.

no they get an exception

Part of reason why spotify brought up an anti trust complaint to the EU.

Apple doesn't pay 30%, forces spotify to pay 30% (app store rules prohibit you doing own payment or taking to a website) and then exempts apps they want

I get $28/h to browse 4channel lmao

>I'm still going to say that you're overpaid.
Unless you've worked with a wide range of people of varying skillsets, you cannot imagine how worthless over 90% of developers are. The top 1% or 2% of developers are 10s or 100s of times more productive and they get things done right the first time. The remainder of the flotsam can barely type their names even after working in industry for 10+ years. This has been true for decades even before the pajeets flooded the market. Pre-pajeet, the shit were shit. The pajeet's wet dream is to one day rise to the level of shit.

I wonder if the same will happen to airbnb because of hotel regulations and licences?

They loose money on most rides.
On most markets uber is in they are loosing money to grow. There are very few cities were uber gets money when you use it.
They were expecting autonomous cars to cone sooner, so they could have a big user base by then, and start to replace drivers. But not only that did not happen, but they also have competition now. That's why it's even more important for them to keep burning money to expand and get a big userbase.

You see, only 1 in 100 have to be profitable for VC. And in cases like uber, they might have selled before the big crash.
VC expect that one good start up will pay for all the failures you discribed. Not only that, but they can actually USE their losses for tax breaks.
VCs are here to stay.

How do I get into VC without consulting experience or an MBA?

youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdXyPYKQo
This is the unironic business strategy of half of SV.

But amazon has become profitable in 98. They just don't pay dividends.
Big difference is that all of Amazon's money goes into making themselves more effecient. It's hard to compete with Amazon on anything because they take efficiency and research seriously. All their work is to cut costs and get new markets. Amazon is scary.
When they had a 18B pile of cash, they spend it all in a single company purchase.
They have no trouble spending but they have huge profits to funnel that spending.
Check the 'comrade bezos' article. It's quite a good read.
Yet amazon still fails, like the fire phone. But by keeping being more effiency in things like logistics which is an hard problem, they keep their spot secure.
Eventually they will have to treat their wharehouse workers better, but they are already paying them well, and each passing day their wharehouses are more efficient, more techologic adacanced
The US military relies on Amazon protols for some logistic stuff. They had contracts with Other logistics/retail before, but amazon has surpassed them.
They are much more than a retail store. Even if retail is 70% of their profits. Unless they gave to share their tech, Amazon won't be surpassed soon. Their morale has to change, and their values as well, it will only go down if its internal environment changes.

Data engineering to actual data scientist (don't confuse with 'data scientist') to a a hedge fund to vc.
Matematitians and phisics and actual good computer scients are loved in the top brackets of financial world. Phisiscists the most. As the top ones are easy to spot.
It's all data analysis. Something teorectic phisics spend their day at, developing formulas to understand something. While most of the guys from finance/economic only know how to use them.
Want a big payroll? Be a sellout teoretic phisics phd.

fuck off

Maybe Jow Forums is right, a good crash is needed.

at least uber has a network, all the data and so on.
look at companies like beyond meat if you want to see real bubbles. they tried to start entering the German market and our discounters simply started offering their own patties for half the price because there's fuck all knowledge or technology required to just copy it and kick overcharging idiots out of the market.
and that company is valued at 50 times its yearly revenue at the moment.

I have none of those things. I'm a web developer.

were all being squeezed out of our precious surplus value so boomer fuckers can gamble it on vegan meat and internet funny money.
thank you capitalism.

pic please

Uber is a company trying to out-ride every taxi business in all the areas they operate in.

They are losing billions because they are now forced to pay their drivers a decent (live outside your car) wage. And they have to conform to the same laws and regulations that regular taxi companies do.

The app is just one component in a large scale operation. Similar to the usage of an assault rifle in a modern military organization.

Arn't they doing a ton of research into self driving, and developing their own cars/aircraft? Their long term goal is to cut out the uber drivers and own their own fleet of vehicles. The ironic thing is the drivers are digging their own graves, the income they are making is directly funding their own redundancy.