I appreciate your effort in shilling this shit, but I'm gonna stick with Xorg. Good try man, good try.
Oliver Rogers
this.
Zachary Rivera
Cringe
Austin Mitchell
How can get anybody so enthusiastic about a Displayserver replicating functionality available on X11 for literally longer than 30 years? Wayland is dead on arrival.
>Screen tearing Not an issue with any proper DE every normal person uses, tiling wm autists don't matter Anyway >Wayland >60hz vsync that cannot be turned off Whew
The story behind why Wayland exists youtube.com/watch?v=Zsz7Shbnb9c >TL;DR too much legacy cruft. Is easier to just start over from scratch than remove it at this point.
Liam Wright
linux desktop is trash
Brody Lee
it was funny the first time
doesnt x have a bunch of security issues too?
Eli Miller
Yeah that too. >Wayland isolates the input and output of every window, achieving confidentiality, integrity and availability in both cases; the original X design lacks these important security features, although some extensions have been developed trying to mitigate it. Also, with the vast majority of the code running in the client, less code needs to run with root privileges, improving security, although multiple popular Linux distributions now allow X to be run without root privileges. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)#Comparison_with_other_window_systems
Noah Stewart
Any latest benchmarks? A couple of months ago there was one on phoronix, and X still has higher FPS on gaymes.
Jordan Hall
I have never, ever, had any issues with X on my many thonkpads, RPis, and even Nvidia HP laptops. Is there any valid reason to switch to something slower, more sluggish and memory consuming hipster shit that only serves to divide the community even further?
Parker Johnson
Wayland (once you add all the features of xorg) is more bloated than xorg and you need to write your program to work with every implementation and every wayland compositor. If I write my program for sway it only works on sway and not KDE or gnome, nigger
Jackson White
Wayland has always on vsync and input lag by design , so it will never be better for gaming since it's fundamentally flawed by design
Gavin Cooper
samefren made 10 fud posts already, always with 2 minutes interval so he can change his ip lel imagine being this butthurt about free software
Is there something to kill a wayland compositor like ctrl + alt + backspace for Xorg killer?
Brody Wood
You don't need to rewrite your app to work on different DEs you dumb nigger
Nathan Thompson
>legacy Not sure if you aware but i will explain it to you.
LEGACY IS OUR MOTTO!
ye now you understand why we criticize systemd/wayland while maintaining coherency. We don't care about those new toys as long as they can coexists with our old toys, we wont ever like wayland im sorry.
Tyler Adams
>forced vsync
Ryan Green
works just fine for windows and macos, and its disabled for fullscreen programs or you could write a compositor that doesnt use vsync if you really want to or make a patchset for an existent one, probably
Isaac Morris
Just use kill or pkill
Jaxon Garcia
Yes you do shithead.
Oliver Diaz
Ok then genius, explain why with references. Back up your claim.
Jackson Sanchez
1 you could never use wayalnd for games because the mouse pointer was limited to the window frame
2 instead of bitching about it you should use another tty with x
Jose Turner
fpbp
Easton Green
>t. Pajeet street shitter Incorrect. KDE Plasma is comfy as fuck.
Jayden Cooper
>memory hog rube goldberg machine
Tyler Cox
You mean >X just works and wayland zoomies just want something new to shill and don't care how badly fucked up, broken, and unusable it is Give it 10 more years, then another 10, then another. Shit's never gonna be done.
Isaiah Wood
lel
Tyler Brown
>you can solve tearing >with even more latency than ultra traditional vsync >it's the futureā¢ Holy shit nigger it's even worse than if you had done nothing.
as long as X is good enough and wayland doesn't have all the cool utils like xmodmap, etc. fuck that newfangled tranny shit
Justin Kelly
a rewrite never solved anything. but these young trannies will find out soon enough. the end result will be probably something way more bloated with way more cruft than X ever had
Kevin Reed
it can be OK when you put a lot of time into customization. but for the default desktop experience you're right. if I was a normie NPC who just needed a working desktop I'd use a Mac or even Windows 10 over the shitshow that is default linux desktop that comes with your distro of choice I use Arch and i3-gaps btw
Aaron Martin
just run tearfree, retard
Colton Brown
>doesnt x have a bunch of security issues too? only if you heavily misconfigure your system. but by then X security is the least of your worries
Caleb Young
>try i3 >autistic keybinds for everything >even for resizing the window >you have to autistically estimate the number of pixels you want to resize by
Alexander Long
it's not software for the low iq npc crowd. for you there's windows/mac
Austin Cooper
funny because the i3 shills on this board sound exactly like npcs to me
That was a GNOME-only thing and it can now be disabled on the latest version.
Logan Collins
X always introduces a random amount of latency to all inputs.
Luis Green
And that random amount is still lower than the constant amount added by Wayland.
> Two mandatory buffer swaps per update required on protocol level > Impossible to write applications aware of scanline position Latency on wayland sucks by default.
Juan Turner
No it can't. Wayland has always in vsync by design that cannot be turned off
Matthew Wood
memes aside wayland is pretty good on VMs, but still it has some quirks.
Robert Taylor
>too much legacy cruft. Is easier to just start over from scratch than remove it at this point. Which is why i'm waiting for microkernel harmony os, by that time i'm going to ditch CoC'd out Linux, xorg, systemd and other redhat botnet all together.
Gabriel Johnson
This is FUD. Wayland is a protocol. Nothing about it requires vsync or input lag.
Ian Allen
Most of the i3 shills here came from Reddit unixporn
Jacob Parker
The two buffer swaps are baked into the protocol. Also the protocol does not allow clients to get information of the scanline position.
Wayland screwed up on the protocol level. There is no way around it. There won't ever be a low latency high performance Displayserver because of this.
Thomas Miller
>hiding behind the "protocol" meme are you the new replacement for Xorg or just a pussy ass software that gets hurt by sunlight?
Matthew Smith
>The two buffer swaps are baked into the protocol. No, this is wrong and you don't even know what the protocol does. >Also the protocol does not allow clients to get information of the scanline position. Then write an extension.
It's not a meme, Wayland is a protocol, whereas Xorg is a display server.
Jeremiah Stewart
>It's not a meme, Wayland is a protocol, whereas Xorg is a display server. Then why make your self so relevant if you are a fucking protocol? move fucking aside you pieces of shit, that protocol has nothing interesting in it.
Bentley Davis
Ok, where is your protocol that's so important and interesting? X11 is not a valid answer.
Aiden Richardson
> No, this is wrong and you don't even know what the protocol does. The protocol requires every client to have its own buffer and notify the server when there is a change. There is no way possible for any application to access the framebuffer by design. Maybe you have no idea what the protocol does, faggot.
Brayden Moore
> Working, used in real life, hardened and tested for longer than 30 years > is not a valid answer Kys faggot. Nobody wants your meme protocol.
Asher Bennett
>The protocol requires every client to have its own buffer and notify the server when there is a change. Which is exactly like X11 where you have to use the damage extension. >There is no way possible for any application to access the framebuffer by design. Which is the same as in X11, Windows, Mac, Android and every other modern operating system. >Maybe you have no idea what the protocol does, faggot. Show me where in the protocol it forces vsync.
Your post is invalid because X11 is even more of a meme protocol.
Ian Allen
this is not about me, its about your attitude... >its just a protocol >its just a protocol >its just a protocol >its just a protocol >its just a protocol
Wayland doesn't implement anything and every time theres a defect its not the protocols fault but rather the fact that no one "implemented it" its the sways the wlroots that are doing the heavy lifting. Its like two guys speaking about their javascript app for android but somehow they have to mention about the internet protocol stack and give them the praised credit for basically having nothing to do with them. The only reason Wayland exists its because xorg maintainers got tier of developing and want others to take the load while them taking credit.
Adrian Butler
People talk about the protocol because it's important, particularly for developers. The core of it is intentionally minimal to reduce bloat. If your problem is with sway and wlroots then mention that.
William Baker
> doesn't understand how DRI works
> The core of it is intentionally minimal to reduce bloat. But it will cause he opposite and increase bloat.
Wayland requires* everything to be monolithically built into the display server (which is also the window manager), which means if I want to use a new WM (say, XMonad) I need to reimplement all of this stuff. Want screenshots? Build it into your WM! Want redshift? Build it into your WM! The result is that development effort will be wasted reimplementing "competing Wayland implementations" stuff that no-one actually wants.
Compare X11, where I could run an Xorg server together with any of a number of lightweight window managers, and the window manager is only responsible for, y'know, managing windows, and determining how the window decorations look. Xorg handles everything else, allowing a robust marketplace of competing WMs to arise.
* Unless/until they finally give in and standardise protocol extensions for out of process window managers.
Matthew Jenkins
wayland should have just been called x13. thats all it is, and then people would adoot it faster and maybe also you know.?
Oliver Moore
What the actual fuck are you saying?
John Jones
>DRI Which is used if your application uses OpenGL or Vulkan >Wayland requires everything to be monolithically built into the display server unless/until they finally give in and standardise protocol extensions for out of process window managers. Wayland the protocol doesn't require that and nobody needs to standardize anything. >I need to reimplement all of this stuff. There are multiple libraries that do it for you. Use wlroots or libmutter, or qtwayland, or anything else. >Xorg handles everything else This isn't even true. Your X window manager still needs to implement a bunch of shit and run a bunch of external programs just to be minimally usable. It isn't a simple task to write one.
Robert Ramirez
> Which is used if your application uses OpenGL or Vulkan Which means that you admit that you are wrong. There is no DRI equivalent possible in Wayland. > Wayland the protocol doesn't require that and nobody needs to standardize anything. That is exactly why it is so flawed. xmodmap works on every X protocol implementation out there. The Wayland equivalent won't. > There are multiple libraries that do it for you. Use wlroots or libmutter, or qtwayland, or anything else. There multiple competing, incompatible libraries to do that for you. It is not standardized,. Which again you admit obviously that it sucks. > It isn't a simple task to write one. Look at the code of dwm. Looks simple enough to me. Sure could be done better, but so could your mother.
Grayson Davis
>There is no DRI equivalent possible in Wayland. No, it's used if your application uses OpenGL or Vulkan >xmodmap works on every X protocol implementation out there. The Wayland equivalent won't. You didn't even read OP, there already is a program that does this that works on both Xorg and any Wayland compositor. >There multiple competing, incompatible libraries to do that for you. These libraries are all compatible, they implement many of the same protocols. Have you even looked at them? >Look at the code of dwm. Look at the code for tinywl
Carson Jones
Are you retarded?
Anthony Perry
These threads always crack me up. People will defend fucking xorg just to be contrarian autists.
>defend ? we just comparing two pieces of software, fun thing is that the older one has more features and same performance. Theres nothing more pathetic than persons claiming the "future", wayland the window man- excuse me, wayland the "just a minimal protocol" does that.
Carson Reyes
>Way Cooler removing Rust and progressing fast I'm surprised there's no 'rustaceans btfo' yet
Gavin Gray
> same performance. You wrote "better" wrong.
Jonathan Johnson
> No, it's used if your application uses OpenGL or Vulkan Nope on wayland both OpenGL and Vulkan render to a local buffer, not the frame buffer. > You didn't even read OP, there already is a program that does this that works on both Xorg and any Wayland compositor. You are lying again. E.g. The sccreenshot utility for wlroots won't work with the Gnome compositor. > These libraries are all compatible, they implement many of the same protocols. Have you even looked at them? No they are not. E.g. there is no unified protocol for Hotkey-deamons. > Look at the code for tinywl The self proclaimed minimalist wlroots library has more than 50000 LOC. Thanks but no thanks
Joseph Robinson
It's something:
Landon Roberts
>> You didn't even read OP, there already is a program that does this that works on both Xorg and any Wayland compositor. >You are lying again. E.g. The sccreenshot utility for wlroots won't work with the Gnome compositor. Why are you bringing up screenshot utility as an example when user was responding to your point about xmodmap?
Noah Williams
Because his hate for Wayland is so intense it's taken up most of his short-term memory.