Is it still relevant today? Am I really ahead of the pack if I can find solutions to the basic problems mentioned?

blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/

Is it still relevant today? Am I really ahead of the pack if I can find solutions to the basic problems mentioned?

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the authors kind of a dipshit for thinking computer science people should inherently give any shit about programming or even be good at it

Also its less relevant because at this point an insane amount of people have read it, digested it, and then spread the general gist even more.

Its an oversaturated field where you'll be treated like shit and you will feel existential dread at the bullshit software you are putting into this world that despite trying to convince yourself otherwise, you know humanity is worse off for it.

Yes. It's all pajeet from here.

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It says that even people with programming-related degrees suffer from this inability, but that is impossible, because you would not be able to pass any programming classes, much less a whole degree, without knowing how to program. That simply can't be done, at least not where I'm from. Thus, unless you believe that the diploma is a forgery, it is proof that the applicant knows how to program.

he probably just means compsci degrees. which is true like 1st post said it doesn't mean you care about programming but pretty much most people on compsci programs do.

excuse doubleposting
before i transferred to a good university i used to know a lot of people up to the last years of the degree that didnt know shit about programming, many math/theory classes plus the programming classes watered down to pander to them preset questions to study of multiple choice shit, assignments where one person copied from others, stuff like that. completely possible imo.

>It says that even people with programming-related degrees suffer from this inability, but that is impossible
>because you would not be able to pass any programming classes
I used to think this.
I'm a graduate TA now. I tutor people in senior-level programming classes - network programming, compilers, systems software, that kind of stuff.
Every single day students come to my office hours asking for help with their assignments. 90% of the time it's because they can't write code.

As as an example, a student asked for help with a networks project. I started talking him through the logic, then I asked him to start writing the code.
I told him he needed an array of integers. He literally wrote "integer array" and then asked why he was getting an error. Keep in mind that there are 3 programming classes plus Data Structures before networks.

As crazy as this is, it's not at all unique in my experience. My only conclusion is that everybody is cheating.
I've asked about running plagiarism detection software on all student assignments, but the professors seem reluctant to do so.
Part of me thinks that it's because they know they'll fail 80% of the students for cheating if they did.

In another semester, I should qualify to be a teaching associate - meaning I'm the primary professor instead of just an assistant.
The first thing I'm going to do is make sure every single assignment is run against plagiarism detection and I'm going to give out 0s like candy at Halloween.

>I've asked about running plagiarism detection software on all student assignments, but the professors seem reluctant to do so.
Jesus Christ, what uni is this?

It's a medium-sized regional university, but our computing department is pretty small.

I'll also add this: the professors that teach here have been here for 15 or 20 years, and they reuse the same projects semester after semester.
So if you know someone that went through the degree here a decade ago, there's a solid chance they could give you their assignments and you can float right through.

I have interviewed candidates that not only had a degree, but also had years of experience (usually not more than a year at the same company, mind you) that couldn't write a function to compute Fibonacci numbers on a whiteboard.

I've been in your position, user, but my advanced degree is in chemistry.

You will jeopardize your position in the department if you upset the "natural order". There's nothing wrong with wanting to set a standard, but this has to be rolled out gradually. Start small, ask for students to write functions just complicated enough that they can't be accidentally done the same way. Computing primes, implementing a sorting algorithm, implementing a database, whatever. If you just start slinging 0s like Snacks slung bans, you'll get shitcanned pretty quick. Academia is full of catty bitches that talk behind backs.

You are basically a 10x dev if you aren't stupid and have passion.

Automatic zero would only be for blatant plagiarism - like if all the whitespace was literally identical. "Beyond a reasonable doubt."
If it's extremely similar but not 100% identical beyond coincidence, then I figured I could call them into my office and ask them to walk me through their code. If they can't do that, then it's pretty obvious as well.

you don't even have to be smart, just persistent. 90% of problems are reccuring, and for the rest you can always turn to other monkeys or your lead...

Ok, I see. However, even things this blatant - like literally exactly the same code. If there is no other evidence of cheating, you could still draw the ire of administration staff who need to pump out a certain number of grads to look good, get bonuses, whatever. Be prepared to fight for this.

>Is it still relevant today?
Not if we're talking about node and js devs

>Automatic zero would only be for blatant plagiarism
Actually, it's got to be for where the student has also proved that they have been told that plagiarism is bad.
"Fortunately" most plagiarists are so fucking stupid that they keep on doing that stuff even after giving formal acknowledgement that they know they can be shitcanned for it. And catching them is like shooting fish in a barrel.

The only thing to beware of is that if you're at a shitty school, they'll ignore the crimes of the students just to keep on pulling the money in. If they do that, you now *KNOW FOR SURE* that the school is bad for your career (because the turds in charge are poisoning everything) and you need to get your ass somewhere better.

>because you would not be able to pass any programming classes, much less a whole degree, without knowing how to program.
Sure you can. Cheat like mad.
my uni isn't quite that bad -- most people who really, actually couldn't code ended up changing majors, but I've seen people pass classes where they barely turned in any work

Whiteboard coding sucks ass and people have a terrible tendency to freeze up on it because the only time it comes up is in an interview.
Sit someone down on a laptop, watch their process.

mind you, many of these same people will still fuck up and not manage, but whiteboard coding just introduces a weird disconnect
fuck, I haven't had to write anything by hand other than my signature and name in a month now, damn near everything is typed

>you could still draw the ire of administration staff who need to pump out a certain number of grads to look good, get bonuses, whatever.
this is a real problem

It's different today. Programmers still cant program, but interviews all have the same whiteboard puzzles sourced from the same recruiting companies. You have to go to a cram school to memorize all the answers or you never make it through. Programming ability is irrelevant.

The top Fang companies do this to "eliminate interview bias" so that all candidates are tested from the same pool of trick questions.

Also, you get bonus points for being single, under 30, and non white male.

fizzbuzz, im unable to code it and i wont even care to learn it.

>program the following for the next weak
done.

no one forced me into a sterile environment without:
internet
operating system of choice
text editor of choice
reasonable time frame to complete task
compiler error messages
libraries to complete the task
irc chat
senior dev 10m away of me
api documentation

I should say, non-white or non-male. Their political ideology is to hire white women and place them with non-white male colleagues to let nature take its course.

>fizzbuzz, im unable to code it and i wont even care to learn it.

lold

You'd be surprised. There are a lot of people who just study code, without implementing it themselves, and post exams. Almost any problem you could think of has already been solved, and can be found online for free. So yes, it is possible to get a computer science degree without knowing how to program. These same people are the ones who struggle in interviews when they're asked to come up with solutions on the spot. Which is why technical interviews are a thing, to filter those people out.

But why?

>My only conclusion is that everybody is cheating
Also this

Tons of people straight up cheat and copy/paste shit off SO or other sites for assignments

how do you run plagarism detection on software? there is usually only one way, or a standard agreed way to do things.

But user, you get bonus points with HR and hiring for being both non-white AND non-male.

>just memorize the solutions like a drooling retard

Given a topic, tell two people to write a paper on it.
Even though both of them express the same ideas, how they express them, their word and punctuation choices, how they structure it, will all be different; for all intents and purposes, they are distinct papers.

Programming is the same way.

a good programmer has consistent formatting.
if you give a class an ER diagram and ask them to implement it surely its not unlikely two would write it the exact same way?

>because you would not be able to pass any programming classes, much less a whole degree, without knowing how to program


LOL

Good luck with that. People will complain to school administration and your ass will be reprimanded for failing 80%+ of the class. What will happen is you'll be forced to pass them because otherwise they'll drop out and cut off the stream of sweet sweet student loan money the school is receiving.

my teacher had a small scrip running diff, people still got. caught because changing tabs ain't cutting it

Your mistake is believing academia has any integrity at all. It's just a mechanism to scam huge amounts of money out of young people. If your actions have any impact at all on the student's willingness to remain enrolled, they will clip your wings before you can even notice its happening. because they get paid for each person, they want as many butts in chairs as humanly possible , like a prison. whether people actually learn or not is irrelevant mostly.

offer shit pay, get shit candidates

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People will get around that shit easily user. Cheaters will cheat. It's their own fault they don't want to learn and they'll pay for it when they try to get a job in the field.