/pcbg/ - PC Building General

Gpus are not overpriced, stop comparing top of the line gpus to mid range gpus

The 290x was $549 at launch in 2013, care about the 5700 XT had a launch price of $400, I can buy one for $450 in Korea.

Adjusted for inflation the 290x would cost $604 in today's money

Going back to the 5970, 10 years ago it's retail price was $800 at launch in the UK

Going back 15 years x850 XT Platinum edition was $550, with inflation that would be $747

Stop comparing top-of-the-line cards of today with the mid-range cards of 10 years ago.

You should have gotten a blower card

no

Attached: but muh blower coolers are good.jpg (1449x773, 165K)

no, no

Attached: but muh blower coolers are good2.jpg (1232x719, 259K)

Now run that test in a case, side panel on, with the reference cooler fan curve up to 60%
Once it's in a case with a side panel on and the open air coolers are heating up the rest of the computer and making the computer fans run faster to extract the heat, they are pounder than reference coolers

>Vega
Why don't they ever have pictures of the setup they used for this? He has repeatedly said open air test benches should not count, why do you keep posting results from open test benches?

5700 and 5700XT are replacements for the Polaris lineup considering die size and number of SPs/CUs.
>RX 470 - $180
>RX 480 - $240
>RX 570 - $170
>RX 580 - $230
>RX 5700 - $350
>RX 5700XT - $400
The replacements for the Vega series are going to be launched somewhere next year in the form of high-end Navi - 5800 and 5900 which most likely are going to be priced accordingly. I would expect $550 for 5800 and $700 for 5900 so it can compete with 2070S and 2080S. I really doubt AMD will be able to deliver 2080TI level of performance any time soon.

heres your own source you posted

because blower style coolers don't magically become better inside a case.

Attached: in case of blower shill.jpg (2256x5568, 2.18M)

>Midrange doesn't double transistor counts every generation.
And? Your comparison is all off, because a 280X is a rebranded 7970, the highest end of first gen GCN on 28nm. If we take actual first gen midrange on 28nm (Pitcairn) and compare it to midrange on 14nm (Polaris) and midrange on 7nm (Navi), the story makes sense:

R9 7850 - 2.9 x 10^9 transistors
RX 470 - 5.7 x 10^9 transistors
RX 5700 - 10.3 x 10^9 transistors

You see that the 5700 is a rather middling improvement in transistors

>5700XT
>top of the line
Just because its AMD's best card doesn't mean you can call it top of the line when it can't even hold a candle to Nvidia's actual high end cards.

Attached: opinion.png (324x271, 4K)

What a comfy truck.

>Also, if windows detects a problem, it will spend an eon reverting fresh installations or rebuilding ntfs databases. But I forget if it'll show it's doing that stuff. But you said it stopped posting so that software must've modified something in the bios.

That's what I though too. However, even after flashing BIOS and clearing CMOS, the problem didn't go away. Even with a new mainboard (from gigabyte) it doesn't.
So it must be an actual hardware failure coinciding with that install of the msi software and reboot.

How can the the CPU cooler block airflow for your gpu?
The air should come from the fans in the front right under your cpu.

ATTENTION: Graphics card prices are excessive by historical standards; therefore, consumers should delay or completely forgo any midrange to high end graphics card purchases. The gouging has two root causes: lack of market competition and shortage/"new normal" pricing during the mining hayday.

Attached: mining prices.jpg (2392x1056, 336K)

yes, the paste is on the boxed cooler

card performance is high as well. You can get amazing cards for 200$ now.

Bros my friend needs a new GPU and is stuck between the 2070S and the 5700XT. Which should he choose? I look at reviews and it seems the AMD 5700XT is crashing and unstable.

Depends on
>what games he plays
>what the prices are in his region
>what cards are available in his region
>what features he cares about

You might say "low end doesn't absolutely suck," but they certainly aren't amazing, considering current consoles are targeting 4K 30FPS using upscaling techniques. Times change, standards improve. $250 is a reasonable price for a decent 1440p card, considering we got a reasonable 1080p card for $170 in the 470 over three years ago

Attached: yajngR2XwDNKPXob2dTgM3.png (1920x1081, 363K)

>using upscaling
Absolutely disgusting
>30fps
Jesus Christ how horrifying

Everybody has a computer in the home, if you take the money you would have spent on that console and spend it on upgrading your computer instead, you will get a much better experience

>AMD 5700XT is crashing and unstable.
It's the recommended card for every build this point

It does get inflow but no outflow due to the CPU cooler.

Some aerocool. Also unfortunately in my part of europoor this jainsbro brand is unavailable.

meshify c, get an AIO.

Compared to much older cards sure, but that's a complete non-statement. They're still ass compared to their more expensive contemporaries. It's almost as if technology improves over time.

Depends on the kinds of games he plays. If nothing but AAA console multiplats, and he doesn't care about ray tracing, an AMD card will serve him well.

Choosing which one depends on the resolution and refresh rate of his monitor. Generally speaking a base 5700 is overpowered for 1080p

>2080ti averages 90 in borderlands
holy hell, a game that ugly must run like dog shit for those numbers

It's an Unreal game, so that's a given. Keep in mind that's a 1440p chart

win10 dazloader link plz? I just went to the site and it wanted to me to some gay "complete our special offer to continue" shit

Mostly correct. More correct than the ones who keep trolling, at least.
5700 is a Vega/1070/290 level card, relative to its time. So the $300-$450 price range is appropriate for the performance it offers over previous cards at that cost. It's actually one of the bigger perf/$ increases over the past 2 decades, as the average is about a 28% increase per year and it's closer to 35% per year over the 1080 and 1080Ti.
There is an RX 5800 or 6800 or RX Navi or something like that coming.

RX 5800 XT is 10.3 billion transistors, nearly double what the previous generation mid-range card, the RX 480/580 was at 5.7.
480/480 was the midrange replacement for the 280X. The 280 only had

Some poster(s) attempts to trick people into thinking transistor counts for midrange doubles every generation is blatant gas lighting that goes completely against the facts.

SP counts are irrelevant and only mentioned to confuse people who don't know about tech. By that logic, the 480 should have cost $500 like the 1070 since it had 2304 SPs compared to the 1070s 1920. Beware attempts to gaslight based off SP counts. Performance tier is what matters. Each generation you expect about 25-30% better perf for the cost, whereas the 5700 XT is 2x over the 580.

No amount of graphs with fake MSRPs that are $50-$100 less than what the actual launch prices are on dates they want to paint in a better light changes that. The actual fact is that Navi returned prices on the $300-$500 range to normal.

Lmao there is 4.3 years between the 7870 (2.5mil transistors) and the 480. And it was $350, with 2.8 billion transistors

Some people seem to be getting lemon cards. Others aren't. DoAs are more common early on.
I'd recommend the 5700/XT, but you do need some patience as the driver will still probably be beta for a few more weeks.
Imo I'd rather have a card with slight issues on launch for a few weeks, than lose months/years of potential better aging down the line.

In the video Linus says that the open air cooler was louder than the blower style cooler. He also did not increase the fan speed of the blower style cooler.

By default they are set to reach a temperature of 85 degrees, and not exceed 40% fan speed until that point.

by increasing the fan speed curve they can be kept below 80° at around 60% fan speed at full load

with a modem card and a modem blow cooler you will reach the limit of the silicone before you thermal throttle

1200 dollars on a card.. christ

The and respond should just be adding crossfire support and selling a 4 slot two pcie monstrosity.

I'm actually amazed at how UE3 went to this highly optimized amazing engine bringing all these new visuals, to UE4 being utter dogshit that's holding everything back, especially 4K.
That engine scales TERRIBLY above 1080p. It's almost like it's some conspiracy.

Yet that's mostly only true for third party games. Gears of War 5 looks and runs amazing.

Considering Polaris is getting RIS support built in, potentially forever if you want to upscale and keep playing low requirement stuff.
The answer is when you enjoy a game that it no longer runs how you'd like.

Trying to understand SSDs but I'm getting confused with form factor and interface types. What SSD should I be looking at for a MSI X570-A PRO? Was looking at the Inland Premium 1TB SSD, but decided to look around for something like 500GB and maybe a little cheaper.

>In the video Linus says that the open air cooler was louder than the blower style cooler.
He doesn't say that though, he says the system was louder.
And that's entirely due to the shitty intel cooler spinning up to max to keep the CPU cooler.

That's the problem with brainlets like you who have no idea about hardware you have never tested.
Open air coolers are more efficient and consequently more quiet.
The fact that it dumps heat into the case and forces bottom trash tier intel cooler to spin faster, which nobody in their right mind should use anyway is not a downside of the GPU cooling system.

Refer to this and Specifically check the NOISE NORMALIZED temperatures.
Or or check the noise of the open air cooler an the temps and compare it to the blower one.

Again, you can troll people all you want but any inocent user who doesn't know any better should get all the proof they need from those images to know you are just trying to fuck them over.

Keep in mind I don't have to convince you, I just have to keep innocent anons safe.

Get the inland 1tb

The results mean nothing if they were not done in a real case. and I have repeatedly stated that you must change the fan speed curve.

>5700 is a Vega/1070/290 level card, relative to its time.
It is not. As proven by all metrics, including die size, CUs/SPs, transistors , and performance relative to the previous gen (XX80 --> XX60), it is firmly mid range.

>the 480 should have cost $500 like the 1070 since it had 2304 SPs compared to the 1070s 1920.
You can't compare between architectures. Everyone knows this. That's like comparing FX cores to Intel cores

>Lmao there is 4.3 years between
Who cares? There was a worldwide recession, so manufacturing processes were set back. 28nm stayed around way longer than anyone wanted it to. All that matters is that we compare the processing nodes, 28nm --> 14nm --> 7nm, which is the biggest thing that has an effect on transistor densities (and therefore numbers for a particular die size)

>7870 (2.5mil transistors) and the 480. And it was $350
And? The 7850, which is analogous to the 5700, was $250. Also don't forget that the 7850 was part of an entirely new arch, GCN, while the 5700 is still clearly GCN, albeit with instruction pipelines more suitable for gaming.

You have nothing close to a coherent argument.

[spoiler]fine[/spoiler]

Look man, dropping your motherboard from 42C to 39C is not worth having your GPU be loud or thermally throttle.

But the Vega is a very high-powered card, the 5700 uses much less power and is more efficient. If reference coolers were bad why would they keep making them? Wouldn't they have at least improve them over the last decade?

And if the graphics card causes the rest of the system to run hot and loud to the point that it makes the system louder than the blower card, then yes that counts as being louder. I don't know about you but I don't generally run my graphics card without the rest of the system

M.2 is the form factor, SATA or NVMe are interfaces where latter is much much faster. You should pay attention to the NAND types for they affect the price and longevity and speed and all that. Go for MLC NAND if you're a professional content creator and want the absolute best if you don't have to worry about breaking a bank account, TLC is the middle ground will make 99.9% of the customers happy whereas QLC is more suited to be used as storage even though it's again enough for the 99% of the people out there. Get a TLC drive. Inland Premium and Sabrent Rocket are very good options.

youtu.be/wiDZNT7mxLQ
By increasing the fan speed to 60% the blower card ran just as cool, did not thermal throttle, and was quieter than the open air card.

Now you might say "but that was in a small form factor case! In my full-sized ATX case I have fantastic air flow because I have 9 noctua fans"

But you're missing the point that even in an ITX case the blower style cooler was able to keep the card cool and not thermal throttle

>But the Vega is a very high-powered card, the 5700 uses much less power and is more efficient.

And this makes blower coolers more efficient at cooling GPUs how?
you are trying to argue that because it's not generating as much heat a shittier air cooling solution is better, than a objectively superior cooling system.

> If reference coolers were bad why would they keep making them?
Because they are cheap and save them money.
That's it.
Even nvidia moved away from those abominations.

They still have a niche case for tiny ITX cases, but outside of that they are garbage in terms of cooling and noise.

>Wouldn't they have at least improve them over the last decade?
Not at all. IT's all the same vapor camber with a bit of fins on top, there is nothing to improve there, it's basic phsyics, the area is small and the amount of fins is limited, so you have to use a faster spinning fan to get enough airflow through it, which is inefficient and loud.

If all of this is not something you logically understand yourself then I truly pitty you for having unironical brain damage.

Mainly gonna be using this for photo and video editing with occasional gaming. I do a lot of multitasking and it's normal for me to have 100+ tabs open in firefox while having at least a dozen different programs running at a time. Anything suggestions as to what I can downgrade/upgrade? Thanks in advance.

Attached: new pc.png (740x711, 59K)

>But you're missing the point that even in an ITX case the blower style cooler was able to keep the card cool and not thermal throttle
youtu.be/NpD_r53qxJc?t=106
yes such a wonderful design

>You can't compare between architectures
No fucking shit. That's the point I was making because some retard keeps spamming that because the SP count is similar, the launch cost should be similar.

>The 7850, which is analogous to the 5700, was $250
I'm pretty much agreeing there?
And the 7870 to the 5700 XT, which was $350. Adjusted for inflation, is $391 now.
The difference is simply down to yields of more dies being good so they don't need to offload the failed yields at a whole $100 cheaper. And the 7850 was more cut down than the 5700 is, with 20% reduced TMUs instead of 10% reduced.

So thanks for finally coming to an agreement. We can finally all see that Navi is priced very appropriately and it's one of the best times to buy a GPU as long as it's

youtu.be/xlQokQsbKlc?t=32
boy I sure love blower cards, and no they don't throttle, just raise the fan RPM and no problem

youtu.be/-SAWtKEIYbw?t=1453

Nice 2013 design

>retard keeps spamming that because the SP count is similar, the launch cost should be similar
Your point is invalid, because we're comparing AMD SPs to AMD SPs; therefore, observers can make deductions about pricing of components with similar numbers of SPs

>Adjusted for inflation
This kind of tech becomes cheaper over time. Inflation doesn't matter in this case, or can be considered to be offset by economies of scale. Anyway there's a closer data point: the 470 (analogous to the 5700) was $170. The only point of comparing Pitcairn to Polaris to Navi is to prove that transistor count doubling is normal with a node shrink, which you seem to be confused about.

>We can finally all see that Navi is priced very appropriately
It is not, for the many reason laid out in this thread. Considering historical pricing data, the 5700 should have been $250 at most, and the XT should have been $325 at most, considering it's not even as good as the 1080Ti. At least when the 1070 was priced at $350, it was better than the 980Ti.

2013 called

The drivers have been fixed, all that is required to keep thermals good is to increase the fan curve to 60%. I'm going to go take a nap now so you children talk amongst yourself over what e penis size Nvidia branded graphics card you're going to get with your daddy's credit card

Does anyone here have any experience with Sabrent Rocket 1TB? I'm kinda hesitant due to it being a brand that I haven't heard before, but the price of it so nice. Also is there a significant performance difference between its PCIE3.0 and 4.0 models to justify the price difference?

skip one of those ssd's and get more ram

>Asrock B450M Steel Legend out of stock

Running a 3600 + 5700xt, gonna need another decent budget mobo. Which of the various MSI/Giga/Asus mATX models are good? Otherwise I might just get the Asrock Pro 4

>muh brands
One of the key steps to growing up and shreading being a consumerist, brainwashed, buypig, is to shed your concerns over brands and paying more money simply because a trademarked label is on one product that is the same as another.

Why not get a 256GB main SSD drive that's fast and a 4TB QLC one that's cheap?

Also get a better cooler. The H100i is no better than the Arctic 34 Duo

tuf pro, mortar.
I'd really get better htan the b450m pro4

>It does get inflow but no outflow due to the CPU cooler.

maybe use a larger case?
I am using a mc500 with all the fron hdd slots removed and 3 140mm fans front, 1 140 back, 2 120 top
I can feel the air coming fast out of all holes in the back and there is plenty of breathing for the nh-d15 and the GPU

>buying from a literal who OEM company

I am glad you finally agree that blower cards are 2013 year tech and belong in the past.

>thinks drivers make the blower card magically cooler

Attached: blower card shill agrees that blower tech belongs in 2013.jpg (2574x1358, 849K)

I don't really care too much about the brand itself, SSDs are not something to brag about. That being said companies like Micron has a certain weight on them and I know I'll be getting a quality product. faggot
If they use NANDs and controllers by other well known companies why the heck not? The price is just too good to disregard them as an option. Sure we'd all like to have MLC 970 Pros in our systems but personally I just can't afford them.

Buy an older 860 if you want a cheap SSD.

Well I don't really plan on overclocking and I'm planning a high airflow case so budget is good enough for me, extra cash went into the 5700xt. Unless I'm missing something overtly wrong with the Pro 4?

I suppose I'll look at MSI's MAX series.

Ignoring the blower thing that Hitachi vertical graphite pad needs to be more popular.

>that Hitachi vertical graphite pad needs to be more popular.
why?

It's easy to install and performs well.

Buy PM981
If you want a 960 pro buy SM961

it performs worse than regular paste though?
It's only great advantage is that it's good at evening out, very flawed heatsink/die contact

overclocking 2666MHz RAM to 3200MHz with Ryzen 5 2600, worth it or not? There are different opinions on the net about how much does it improve the performance

I can get cheap 2666 but I don't want to unnecessarily shorten its lifespan

Its practical thermal conductivity is in the 40w/mk range (and in the 90 range in theory).
I mostly want it for ease of application though.

>Its practical thermal conductivity is in the 40w/mk range (and in the 90 range in theory).
This shit again. I wish you could feel how hard I sighed.
Okay once again for people who don't know shit about this.

Tell me the thermal conductivity of aluminum and copper.
Hint:it's about ten times higher than your pad.

Now realize that the reason thermal paste is good is because it manages to keep it's it's layer tiny and thus even though it's inefficient, it's so small that you get metal on metal contact and it doesn't create a fat layer of shit between the two surfaces.

PADS on the other hand have better conductivity than pastes and shit, but guess what, the layer is FAR higher, and you eliminate the possiblity of metal on metal contact, and your pad because of it's fat layer becomes essentially a thermal insulator.

>I mostly want it for ease of application though.
How hard is it to apply paste.
Id understand if you said I like the pads longevity and that it can be used for 10 years or something.

lmao 1.35v isn't going to shorten the lifespan. 1.2v is just because muh low power but the 12.5% increase in voltage pretty mcuh gives you a 12.5% increase of performance so the perf/watt is the fucking same.

axial fans are also 2013 tech, you retard.
Those two blowers are CLEARLY not the same. The 5700 blower uses a vapor chamber and not a single component is the same.

Have a GTX 970 Gigabyte G1 graphics card and a AOC monitor 1080p 144hz. Using the display port from the monitor to the graphics card as the slots on my cards for DVI and HDMI are already plugged in to other things. The AOC monitor doesn't work from time to time. Sometimes I'll boot up and it will say no signal. I have kept my graphics card up to date and installed the drivers that came with the monitor but it's a 50% chance it will work on boot up

Attached: 1497188396217.jpg (251x218, 8K)

try new cable

Is there a straightforward guide for ram oc? I just got my 3700x system set up.

30yo boomer here how futureproof™ is this for 1440p light gaymen and 4chinz?
pcpartpicker.com/list/4KRjjy

Won't even think of upgrading for 6y+, with possible exception of a video card. I'll probably still be using Win 7 then. Hell I held out on Win2k til 2010.

Attached: tumblr_lzszq5XbRM1qjpzm0o1_500.gif (500x374, 150K)

should be fine although I'd probably put a few dollars a week to build up a GPU upgrade in 2023..

I'm waiting to see how AM5 turns out

That's a decent idea guess I'll look for top fans. What about GPU risers is that a good thermal idea?

pcpartpicker.com/list/7kYybX

First go at a build for my friend who might switch to pc. Main use is AAA gayming, primarily Destiny 2; goal is to keep up for at least a few years. Already has a 1080p 144Hz monitor and another friend is willing to give him his used ASUS strix 1070 Ti. CPU and SSD are local Microcenter prices. Thots?

Attached: 1535008275073.jpg (2560x1440, 1.14M)

I've seen that issue before and have no idea what it is other than hdmi/dp being finicky sometimes.
Even though the HDMI are plugged into other things, can you try using HDMI on the AOC monitor instead and see if the issue persists?
It could simply be a cable problem. If not, it might be the port on the GPU or Monitor for DP.

>Overclocking memory
>In your motherboard's BIOS/UEFI, under the OC tab, you can try setting the DRAM frequency up once or twice. IE if you have 2666 @ 1.2v, you could try 2999 @ >1.35v or 1.4v.
>1.45v and 1.5v are considered more "extreme" overclocks on DDR. Make sure your RAM is kept cool at that voltage, and even then 1.5v is not very recommended as it can degrade the dies.
>I would start at 1.35v or 1.3v, find something stable enough to boot, but which crashes running memtest (you can also see more stutters in poorly optimized games as an indication that RAM isn't very stable), then add another 0.05v to then make it stable in actual use.
>Leave "auto stepping" or whatever your BIOS calls it on. This will automatically try to downclock until it can find bootable settings.
>Under advanced timings, leave them on auto. Save and exit.

>If it boots, use a program like CPU-Z, SIV, or Ryzen Timing Checker to view your timings. They may be something high, like 19-19-19-19-48. Go back into BIOS and back to advanced timings, and try to manually input timings 10-20% lower instead of auto, and try booting again. Again there should be an auto stepping setting here. Like say you try 16-16-16-16-40, it might autostep to 16-17-17-17-42, an improvement.
>The most important setting here is the first one, Cas Latency.
>If your PC * turns on but does not boot* just leave it. It could take 15 minutes or so to step down and find bootable timings before it eventually drops to 2133 and you have to start over and try something more conversative like 2800.

team AM6waitfag here

Attached: chrome_2019-09-04_13-45-14.png (971x708, 1.07M)

I've literally never heard of "Iland premium".

After a lot of umming and erring
Music production, anime watching, very light video editing, light graphic design work and light gaming on a 1440p 60hz monitor with no need for ultra settings at 1440p (Minecraft, GTA V etc, nothing fancy or competitive).
>AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz
>Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
>Corsair 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 3200Mhz CL16 Vengeance LPX Black
>ASUS ROG STRIX X470-F GAMING
>Fractal Design Define S Black
>Corsair TX650M 650W
And a 980 I have lying around.

Any suggestions, like another mobo, mid tower case or PSU?

I'm thinking about buying a "budget" 144Hz/1440p monitor for the budget PC I have

Will a 1060 6GB/i5 7600K be able to even push out enough power to justify $300 on the monitor?

I don't play online games, it's usually GTA, Minecraft, Fallout and other normie shit as far as more demanding titles go.

Not sure if I should just wait until I upgrade the GPU/CPU

The monitor is the Pixio PX329.

Well it's gotten multiple recommendations and I've had a few confirmations to get it

>pcpartpicker.com/list/7kYybX
>First go at a build for my friend who might switch to pc. Main use is AAA gayming, primarily Destiny 2; goal is to keep up for at least a few years.
That's a really solid build.
Only thing I'd really change is getting a power supply that's modular or semi-modular.

no one cares what you have or haven't heard of.

>Will a 1060 6GB/i5 7600K be able to even push out enough power to justify $300 on the monitor?
A 7600k wont even do 60fps minimums on a lot of modern games. lmao. Depends on what you play. Why don't you use FRAPS to record frametimes in what you play yourself with VSync turned off and see for yourself? Jesus.

I get 120+ FPS in those games currently, but I'm on a 60Hz/1080 monitor. I'm asking if they would be enough to push 144 @ 1440.

Don't get upset when presented with things you dont understand.

Try it on 1440p and see on your current monitor with VSR/DSR. Dur.
If your frame rates are fine, then you are fine getting a monitor which can actually display those pixels.
>Don't get upset when presented with things you dont understand.

>modular psu
thanks. i used a video guide and advice from here so i can't take much credit. trying to keep the price down so modular psu isn't a priority.

>have mirror polish on the heatsink
>use some kryonaut
>later take it off and notice there is dips and small holes in the heatsink and die
WTF did kyronaut scratch my shit up with it's big metal particles or something?

my mum cares