/dpt/ - Daily Programming Thread

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what is difference between lisp and common lisp
tell me about lisp, why is it a meme? what is its history? is it useful? for what?

>not Let Over Lambda
why do you hate Lisp?

quadrateledildonicpod

What does your primary dev machine look like, Jow Forums?
You do make full use of it's capabilities with your software, right?

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I hope I will become as good at JavaScript as Anone one day!

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Lisp is like English. Common lisp is like English English. Scheme is American English and Emacs Lisp is Aussie English. Clojure is Ebonics.

Look at all these Lisp books I have..... and I've only read 2 (gentle intro and ansi common lisp). Being a NEET truly is despicable.

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Do you reguarly write tests for personal projects?

micjohnson.github.io/js-hlspray/

'lisp' means Common Lisp, always. It's also a family of languages and the only one that's any good is Common Lisp. Nonetheless, Emacs Lisp and some Schemes have niche uses.
>why is it a meme?
its big thing is macros and macros are not actually that good of a thing to have and make easy. People want to learn languages and they want productivity to take the form of use of language; making languages is in your language is a distraction from this more often than it is an aid to it.
The syntax as practiced is also quite poor. Pattern matching uber alles.
>what is its history?
Common Lisp was standardized when filesystems were a lot weirder, so it has a weird filesystem interface. None of the rest of the history matters.
>is it useful?
if you're wasting time on a shitty scripting language, you may as well use Common Lisp instead. If you're using a real language that is not C, then it swiftly becomes a lot harder to justify CL.
>for what?
client software with a high uptime that can reasonably drop into a debugger on error, and which can be upgraded on the fly, and which can be scripted by the user at a deep level. A web browser would be just about the most perfect and ideal use of Lisp. Emacs is also good.
Regrettably, nobody uses Common Lisp for what it's relatively good at.

nice collection! were the graham books hard to find?

It was featured in a popular beginners programming book SICP and it has captured the imagination of autists in /dpt/ ever since. Lisp fags will cite things like how easy it is to write a lisp interpreter as being a benefit when really the language has to be pre-parsed by the user because it has the structure of an AST. The whole point of a programming language is to be human friendly not machine friendly. Learn haskell if you're not a pleb. Any of the trickier meta programming tasks in lisp can be easily done in haskell using template haskell although they shouldn't be necessary since haskell is such a powerful language.

You can get ANSI Common Lisp off amazon for cheap, and On Lisp is just a lulu on-demand print (the binding isn't bad at all).

Depends on the size and longevity of the project. It’s obviously a waste to test throwaway code.

What projects should I work on? I haven't really done any programming since uni and I want to keep improving myself.

An OS

Do some web shit in your favorite language.

learn lisp

Write a touhou fangame

opengl bindings for crystal

See

Hi, I'm worthless neet on neetbux, never held a job. Should I learn JS and and other webdev shit and try to get an entry level job? That seems like I could go, or what other realistic paths are available to me besides the obvious working at mcdonalds? I know Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp and that's really the extent of my knowledge (I don't even know macros all that well except super basic stuff). pls i need your help, i dont want to be shitty worthless neet anymore

Adding to this, I should mention that I'm an engineer, so I've never really done more than basic application-level CLI-based shit.

are you actually on welfare

yes, i get $500 a month from SSI, and $150 for food stamps. its all so pathetic really

yeah, that's nothing. better than zero i guess. you're going to have a hard time finding a job without a degree.

How do you live with that meager amount?

he lives with his parents

If you're sure you want to do something computer science related I would do an introductory course on algorithms and data structures. Thats literally the most bang for your buck thing you can do as a programmer. Google stanford or MITs introduction to algorithms course. Or georgia tech carnegie mellon, etc. something with a good name in computer science

sell the foodstamps for $75, spend $575 on opiods. suck dick for food

i live with my mom, but all my money goes to paying bills as she's a low-skilled barely above minimum wage worker.
i hear that all i need for a webdev job is a solid portfolio. as in working on projects and having shit to show for it all. am i being told wrong?

damn, not that user but I'm in the same position, I want to do something useful with this time

Read and educate yourself and subvert and dissent from liberal media. Ultimately take on the military industrial complex.

I'm not saying it's impossible.

How old are you?

22.

find tech companies physically near you. look them up on glass door. find one where people are complaining that there's a lot of hiring and firing going on, and no training going on. "they'll hire you but won't train you and then fire you when you don't learn !! :( :( :("
these kind of reviews tell you
1. you can get a job relatively easily (easy hire)
2. you can pull ahead of the pack relatively easy (no training) - if you're motivated to learn the job on your own.
promotions may also be easier if the "easy fire" mentality isn't limited to entry level hires.

knowing Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp is fine, but install CentOS and go through a sysadmin book. Learn the Linux command line really well. Learn about DNS. Learn about HTTP requests. Set up a webserver, buy webhosting (a few dollars a month is worth it, even on your income) and put some websites on it. This stuff is going to help with just about any job you get that isn't super specialized. For languages, Perl or Python or Ruby are all more likely to help you than Lisp. Try and see what kind languages the businesses you're looking into are actually using. Learning the #1 TIOBE language (Java) isn't going to help you when you're applying to a language whose use of Java anywhere is a Jira setup that's out of house..

>take on the military industrial complex
what actually good advice looks like is "join the military"

I would agree. Getting into infrastructure without a degree seems to be easier than programming.

US Military, please leave.

There are a lot of really good tech jobs in defence and the defence industry, it's one of the better places to work.

thank you user, i really do appreciate it. ill install centos tonight. ive used linux since i was around 16 but ive never actually done much sysadmin-type stuff with it so i actually dont know a whole lot it feels like

#include
0: Linker ERROR Stallman resigned

i think lisp is more like latin, sue me

my interview questions were
1. change 'GNU' to 'GNU/Linux' in this file somehow, without just editing each instance
2. log into this WordPress and install a plugin
3. do you know who RMS is?
4. what's the difference between 'free software' and 'open source software'?
I'd also used Linux since I was about 16, but never professionally. It was just the OS I used personally. I knew next to nothing that wasn't common wisdom about the industry I was getting into.
I got hired and my next paycheck was $1200 or really helped with the $1400 pay day loan that I was late on, and my empty bank account.
You're a lot better off than I am because you can at least keep doing what you're doing while you're waiting for the company to get back to you. It can take a few months just to get a phone interview.

Common Lisp is niggertier. You all need to take the Schemepill.

>all these grammatical errors
I should just copypasta this advice

>>Common Lisp
>powerful language with many compatible implementations
>>Scheme
>simple language incompatible between implementations
Schemepill is bluepill.

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Schemeshit. Take those continuations and shove them where the sun don't shine.

What are you working on, Jow Forums?

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$ ./freedom
./freedom: error while loading shared libraries: libfreedom.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
$ ldd freedom
linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007ffeec568000)
libfreedom.so => not found
libstdc++.so.6 => /lib64/libstdc++.so.6 (0x00007fae7c456000)
libm.so.6 => /lib64/libm.so.6 (0x00007fae7c310000)
libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib64/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007fae7c2f6000)
libc.so.6 => /lib64/libc.so.6 (0x00007fae7c130000)
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007fae7c682000)

why use any kind of Lisp when Haskell exists?

responding to your post

why use any kind of Haskell when Lisp exists?

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Hello, just started data structures, can anyone explain how to 'prove' this?

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Answer is fuck big O. Just benchmark it.

you use the definition of big O and describe the logical steps from premise to conclusion. It basically involves algebra with inequalities, which you should know how to do.

because Haskell is based.

Okay like I don't understand what max( ) is, it's not in the book and I don't remember it being mentioned in lecture, it's not in the slides.

Honestly, macros are NOT its big thing even though everyone says it is. While the macros are nice for the ability to write DSLs, CL is good because of its interactive power: restarts, compiled speed, slime/slimv and such. It's really hard to go back to anything else when you have lisp's virtually no compile times, ability to patch bugs on-the-fly at runtime, connect and interact with the system both remotely and locally, etc.

it's a function that takes two or more values and returns the maximum of them.

>Okay like I don't understand what max( ) is
it returns at maximum 1 value

is Nim meme or?

the problem with valuing that stuff is that as soon as you do so, Erlang becomes the sun, and Lisp is at best a the north star.

So make up some sort of function that would have a higher upper bound than the other function? I don't understand...

it's excellent in many ways and I'm using it in production. It basically obsoletes every single scripting language except for legacy code, or "I want to whip up some garbage and Nim doesn't have the library yet"

If you have the time, why don't you try it out for a project you have in mind and make a conclusion?

Can I use it over something like Java though?

I love Nim, its neat. Not sure if I'd trust it for production code like the other user though. Also it's really slow when working with files currently.

You could use bash script over Java, that is a perplexing question.

if you're using Java you're probably relying on some other project for most of the organs you need to survive, and so would instantly expire if you moved to a language that didn't at least compile to Java. So I dunno. Is that the case for you?

>unbalanced parentheses

Not really, erlang is slow as fuck and doesn't support native threads, for instance. Erlang is good at completely different things. Also correct me if I'm wrong but you can only do the same kind of live image operations as lisp in erlang if you specifically enable debug mode for modules, which is a very different paradigm. It's also my understanding that it's very limited inside that scope, more like jvm than lisp.

look up the definition of big O in your textbook. It's basically an if then statement involving inequalities. You assume that f1(n) is O(g1(n)) and that f2(n) is O(g2(n)). So write down what those two statements mean based on the mathematical definition in your book.

Then from that assumption, work your way toward the conclusion.

erlang's shell is hot garbage

there you go user, answer the question with an error message.
Unhandled SB-C::INPUT-ERROR-IN-LOAD in thread #:
READ error during LOAD:

end of file on #

(in form starting at line: 1, column: 0, file-position: 0)
>slow as fuck
at a lot of stuff, yeah. But if that's what you value more than the stuff you were just talking about, then again other languages shine brighter than Lisp.
>doesn't support native threads
the engine uses them. Your code doesn't need them.
>specifically enable debug mode
you are massively wrong. Erlang's live image capabilities are futuristic, barely-imaginably technology from the perspective of stone age Lisp images. Erlang has versioned modules. Erlang can migrate processes to newer code in a controlled manner. Erlang can have processes running on old code and new code at the same time. Erlang updates modules at a time rather than symbols at a time.
You stinking unwashed barbarian. How DARE YOU entertain the thought that Lisp does this better than Erlang?

it's a shell. What use is a "better REPL" without all the other operating system shit that Erlang has, that Lisp does not have?

So something like this?

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lisp is a programmable programming language, erlang is a programmable program.

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>lisp is a useless thing
>erlang is a useful thing
kay

What do all the : mean in function definitions?
I know : is used to initialize objects, but I can't find anything on the syntax used here.

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>But if that's what you value more than the stuff you were just talking about, then again other languages shine brighter than Lisp.
I'm valuing the fact that I can hotpatch my code and STILL reach extreme levels of performance. Quite frankly, if I didn't care at all about performance, why shouldn't I use something like pharo, which has even cooler stuff like an entire IDE as part of a dumpable, shareable image, that can me live-modified from scratch and, because the modifications persist in the image, can thus be used to implement program-specific development environments?
>the engine uses them. Your code doesn't need them.
It uses a concurrency model based on multiprocessing which is extremely expensive when objects are not trivial to transfer. Works for some things but not others. Eitherway I will admit it's a fairly minor concern.
>you are massively wrong
Can you provide more resource on this? The only source I could find explicitly stated debug mode needs to be activated to be able to do what seems to be the equivalent of live image modifications in lisp and I was not able to find any other resource whatsoever (I'm guessing it's more google SEO fail).

deadlang

f(x) = O(g(x)) if and only if there exists a positive real number M and a real number x0 such that for all x > x0, |f(x)| x0,
|f1(x)|

I have no idea what language this is supposed to be yet it's very obvious in all cases but the final : this;, which I assume returns the this pointer for chaining. event: eventname, listener: type of the listener function (e.g. one-argument-of-type emoji returning void).

this was meant for lol. I'm too lazy to learn LaTex at the moment.

>google SEO fail
a shitter using Google is asking me for sources.
No.
dunno what language this is, but : is certainly saying that the thing on the left has the type of the thing on the right, with () => for function types, and the final : for the type of the method return.

>he knows his favorite language is shit, and can't bear to see the proof