Good. This should't apply only on videos games, but also on all software licences and dematerialized goods in general.
The thing is, in french and european laws, you OWN a license to use a software. That means that once you have it, you should be able to resell it. >software license != the files stored on your drives or on a disc. >a software license is an "authorization" to use a software and is unique. The problem is that Steam and other gold-sniffing-nose companies now see licences as a "perpetual on-time purchase renting", which doesn't really exists in the law.
>go to the physical store to buy a physical copy of the game (Portal 2, Doom 2016...). You get a DVD or a Blu-ray. >go home. There is now two case: >1. you directly input the code printed in the box in steam and download the game >2. you insert the disc in your computer, and it will ask you to input the code printed in the box. It will install the game from the disc at first, but at the end you'll still have large mandatory large updates. >Either way, you can throw your physical copy in the trash because it's useless. You can't sell it used, you can't borrow it to a friend, you can't use it to install the game on multiples computers for a LAN party and you can't even use it to reinstall the game later on you computer because updates are as large as the game. The physical copy you bough is pointless and you now understand you'd better directly buy the dematerialized game.
Before Adobe went CC, you were able to sell CS licences because you OWNED the licences and it wasn't tied to a DRM account. My school did that. They "borrowed" adobe CS5 licences to students for a deposit, and at the end of the year you'd have to uninstall and remove the license from your computer to get your money back.
Steam, Adobe, and all others DRM killed the freedom we had with physical copies for their jewness. It's time to get our rights back. If you don't agree with that, you're a bootlicking corporate shill.
>The problem is that Steam and other gold-sniffing-nose companies now see licences as a "perpetual on-time purchase renting", which doesn't really exists in the law. It does in the """land of the free""".
Michael Walker
So you can just invent a new word for whatever services you offer and and now existing laws don't apply to it? Land of the Jew indeed.
Andrew Morris
Digital “subscriptions” and “licenses” are literal cancer to technology. I wish this would affect more than just French customers, but it won’t until the other countries’ leaders pull the big digital licensing lobbyists’ dicks out of their mouth and start trying to help their constituents.
Adrian Anderson
Steam will swap to a subscription service where you buy perpetual licenses to play specific games.
Dylan Reed
That's what it already is. You don't own shit.
Asher Allen
>Steam claiming ownership of my back-up drive
Ethan Watson
They'll just drop the frenchcucks and any other tech illiterate EU boomers.
Alexander Price
How do you plan on activating those backups which require Steam to run?
Xavier Adams
>software license != the files stored on your drives or on a disc.
Anthony Torres
it's a huge market, they'd rather pay 10 times the fine than drop it
Zachary Gonzalez
They might pay a fine but they aren't going to fundamentally and drastically magically change digital distribution to allow what the boomer courts request.
Ian Torres
a second-hand license is exactly the same as a new license, the product is indifferent to a newly bought copy but a second-hand console videogame is not the same as a new console videogame. a second hand videogame for a console could have its disc scratched, be damaged, have little-to-no warranty against defects, and if its a cartridge it could be disgusting, oxidated or missing a label or have issues with saving your progress in the game. thats not to say i haven't gotten mint-condition games from pawn shops, but its a dime in a dozen. now, if a consumer on steam is looking for a game, it doesn't matter if he buys a new copy or a second-hand license. the game is exactly the same, the license is secured into his account, and all files are intact and ready, identical, on demand from steam's servers. except if everybody bought the second hand licenses, game sales would be really shit because for a developer to make a sale on their game, they would require that nobody is selling it on the preowned market. because if there are copies on the market of a game pre-owned but identical, who would buy from the developer by paying extra? also, it isnt just corporations that make games, what about indies and small studios? oh yeah, and lets not mention this would just bring the G2A grey market of stolen and illegally aquired CD keys to the steam client market. sounds like a mess for the games industry
>a second hand videogame for a console could have its disc scratched, be damaged, have little-to-no warranty against defects, and if its a cartridge it could be disgusting, oxidated or missing a label or have issues with saving your progress in the game. Then you return it. Can't do that with a license. Your disc doesn't stop working when the distributor goes out of business, either.
Jack Rogers
>but a second-hand console videogame is not the same as a new console videogame. a second hand videogame for a console could have its disc scratched, be damaged, have little-to-no warranty against defects, and if its a cartridge it could be disgusting, oxidated or missing a label or have issues with saving your progress in the game. You're supposed to sell something that works like intended or explicitly tell your customer you're selling a defunct product. If you're not, you have to refund them if it doesn't work. And yes it applies to used goods. Also reminder that the physical copy of a software comes with a licence (explicit or not).
Levi Brooks
ITT: people defending the american jew
Zachary Baker
What they should do is offer a premium (maybe €5-10 for all games for frenchies) and then just give them a physical 'license disk' for that game. Then the frenchies can sell each other the license disks, whilst the content remains fully downloadable as before, you just need to put in the license disk when you want to play the game.
Cameron Ortiz
Do the math and implement a fixed fee. Solved.
Landon Mitchell
This will be a complete mess and Steam will keep appealing it years. In the end Steam might, if we're lucky, introduce a "sell back" feature where you get pennies on the dollar for the price you paid in steam autism bucks just like gamestop would pay for used games back in the day.
Aaron Watson
My drivers license expiring doesn't stop me from launching my car
Camden Ramirez
Based Frenchmen
Benjamin Rogers
>french court >ruling anything top kek
Oliver Rodriguez
Yeah, if I was Steam, this is what I'd do. Meets the requirements of the law, and the disks being physical will remove mass exploitation of digital reselling. Extra money now for game "purchases" so it doesn't hit the bottom line.
Robert Morgan
It would if the police checked your license every time you start your car in the same manner Steam checks your license every time you start a game.
Levi Sanders
First it was the refund policy, then GDPR and now this. will the EU save us once again?
And that's perfectly fine but if your car was like software nowadays it would have a scanner that would refuse to start engine if your license is expired/invalid. You can still drive your car without a license on your property but with game/software licenses you're not allowed to use the software you "own". Art 11, 13
Luis James
Dropping the French (or any EU member for that) means almost certainly dropping the EU as a whole.
And we all know that's never gonna happen.
Christopher Peterson
>Art 11, 13 a boomer mishap, i will eat my shit on youtube if they ever enforce it.
Isaiah Rogers
Steam doesn't sell you games, they rent games. So the French are as retarded as anyone who pays for steam games.
Hunter Edwards
what is it about boomers that makes them unable to understand EU's unity?
Christopher Morales
>so if I go to my local Auchan and buy the DVD of a steam game, I'm renting it?
Lincoln Peterson
>Belgium bans lootboxes >Companies do not sell lootboxes in Belgium only It's like Rockstar introduced a Casino in GTAonline. People from some countries can enter the building but not play there.
Ethan Gray
>not playing DRM free games only. there are several on steam actually
Dominic Mitchell
By their license I guess you're paying for just the disc. They allow you to play but the only thing you OWN is the disc, not even it's contents since they're copyrighted.
Jordan Brown
>caring about the DRM >*laughs in Somali*
William Sanchez
>sounds like a mess for the games industry those poor corporations, bullied by consumer rights you're a fucking cocksucker
And for those that can't? The whole discussion is pretty much moot if we're completely disregarding the law anyway.
Adam Brooks
No because legally, the store that sold me the disc also sold me the license that came with it. The store didn't rend me the game. The box just say you need steam to play the game.
Nicholas Perry
It was like this before zoomer, and indie companies still survived, get fucked.
Ryder Brown
Finally French doing something good.
Christian Fisher
You don't own the license. You are only buying the right to use the license, which may be revoked at any time. >Steam and your Subscription(s) require the download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms). This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that includes the license. -----> The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services.
Jaxon Gonzalez
Here in the Netherlands lootboxes are only gambling if you can sell the content to other players. Because then you can try to gamble for profit.
Ayden Cook
see What I was getting at was ownership not having a right to something because your license can be revoked or invalidated.
Andrew Hernandez
FUGGIN FRENCH COMMIES
I LOVE MUH CORPORATIONS I LOVE MUH PRESIDENT
AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Samuel Hughes
>You don't own the right to use the software. You are only buying the right to use the right to use the software lmao
>Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use... > -----> The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services.
Grayson Bennett
You don't understand how copyright works and you don't want to learn either. I give up on you.
John Wright
Good point. But these license terms do not trump actual law. Even if you accepted them you can still sew them when they try to actually enforce their terms.
Jordan Hall
this have nothing to do with copyright retard. Of course the content is copyrighted, nobody said otherwise. Of course you don't own it when you buy a game. You get a LICENSE witch is the RIGHT TO USE THE CONTENT. you don't get a right to use a license.
its funny because the disc doesnt even have any game content, just an installer for steam
Jose Allen
actually it does contain the game because the installer first copy the files from the disc, but steam force you to apply updates anyway
Thomas Garcia
I wish it becomes a thing. I want to get rid of my steam account altogether, but I've never been able to sell it. I don't care how much I get as long as it is something, god knows I don't play more than one of those 300+ games.
Les américains sucent la bite des entreprises? C’est incroyable!
Christian Rogers
How does this affect other software like MS office am I allowed to sell them too?
Camden Williams
>Everything now becomes subscription based and you don't own anything at all They're literally shooting themselves in the foot. Just look at Photoshop. You could just buy a licence for like 500€ and you were fine for the next couple of years until you get a meaningful upgrade. Now you have to pay a 40€ monthly subscription, you don't own shit and can't do whatever the fuck you want with your software. How is this an improvement?
Gavin Thompson
>You're supposed to sell something that works like intended or explicitly tell your customer you're selling a defunct product. If you're not, you have to refund them if it doesn't work. And yes it applies to used goods. Not in Germany, for example. If you're selling from person to person, on the private sector, you're exempt from return policy laws. You still have to deliver the goods as advertised, though.
Jayden Wood
Except you're already only buying the license. You don't pwn anything, except the hardware
Samuel Flores
this is actually an EU ruling
Gavin Taylor
Nice digits. Also holy based. EU commies saving the day
Brandon Price
At least I can do whatever the fuck I want with this licence. I can refuse updates, I can install plugins or whatever without fearing that Adobe breaks compatibility with mandatory updates.
Caleb Phillips
This is just the case where a French consumer rights association filled a claim against steam, but I guess this can apply to other DRM
Sebastian Sanders
OP is right /thread
Hunter Ross
>buy a specific software license >don't use it anymore >sell it How is it a bad thing?
Brayden Walker
>but I guess this can apply to other DRM This is an interesting point. Because if they force Steam to do this, they can force other storefronts like Origin, EGS and the Ubilauncher to do this. Now, Ubisoft is a French company, protected by the French government (as the French like to do, lest all their companies would be bought). And I guess Ubisoft can't be interested in such a hassle. So I guess it could get interesting
Eli Lopez
Yes, what OP said. Also that's why i prefer collecting for console games, I can easily find used PS4 games on ebay, but the term "used game" on pc seems to have died forever.
Kevin Hughes
>No, you can't do that goy, new customers can only buy a certified licence from an approved reseller™.
Wrong. It's 13Euros per month for photoshop, Also Adobe has no competition so they can charge however they want. In games they just can't charge that much money for a service, they have to compete with tens of others + piracy.
Easton Morgan
>Now, Ubisoft is a French company, protected by the French government (as the French like to do, lest all their companies would be bought). And I guess Ubisoft can't be interested in such a hassle. So I guess it could get interesting 90% of their studios are in Canada or abroad. Ubisoft is more of a Canadian company at this point. No one cares about them here. They fucked off abroad to avoid taxes, so I really doubt the authorities would grant them any kind of special treatment.
William Sanders
Can you sell it? Can you install it in any amount of pcs you want? Can you tinker with it? Can you share, lend or change it?
Wyatt Rivera
Yeah, but legally they're still a French company, with headquarters in France and most people perceive them as French.
James Bailey
Arise communist brethren. The fewer goods and services available for us the better. I can't wait to be glorious like Afrika!
Colton Rogers
>most people perceive them as French. I can assure you we don't. They're Canadian to us. Rayman was over twenty years ago man.
Carson Martin
It's bad, because real, living people have more money to enjoy their lives, whereas nonliving entities like corporations or billionaires, who already have enough money to buy everything they want have less zeros on their accounts. You can't just let people be happy like that.
Noah Young
Americans were a mistake.
Chase Sanchez
I'm really curious on how that would work. I can't imagine how it would be possible to resell digital games without literally killing the entire video game industry.
Matthew Foster
>having the right to sell the things you buy is communism absolute retardation
Andrew Johnson
found the murrican just be careful and don't get shot, ambulance is expensive
Isaiah Howard
There are no laws protecting consumers' rights in Africa. Just like in the US.
Aiden Cook
>NOOOO YOU CAN'T SELL PRODUCTS UNLESS WE'VE BUILT PLANNED OBSOLESCENSE INTO IT, OY VEY!!!
Eli Howard
The game industry is already a zombie though. The cost of making games skyrocketed to the tens of millions pf dollars range while the prices stood mostly frozen. They are getting by with gambling, DLC, killing resales, aggressive monetization of all kinds and other anti-consummer practices. But that's clearly untenable. Because prices will rise come the next generation of GPUs/consoles/whatever as they always do.
Lucas Ross
I'm talking about outside of France. I can imagine that you guys are pissed that Ubi takes their studios outside your country.
Elijah Perez
How so? It would definitely hurt the sales a lot, but you have to sell lots of "new" licences so people can buy lots of "used" ones.
Show where the "thing" is. It seems like you didn't buy anything; then why should you be able to sell it?
Jacob Hill
>what is a license the whole thread is about license retard
Jason Hall
If it doesn't exist then they shouldn't be able to sell it either.
Aaron Cox
Oh shit, nice!
Lucas Hall
Are you retarded?
Daniel King
>nobody buys games new >games move to subscription, pay monthly access instead The law is too slow to regulate anything digital. We need a Gamer Czar to lay down the law.
