Is Python the more sane way to do web development?

No, Java is.Check from time to time the job listings

Flask and Django are both very capable

It's alright. At least it's not JavaScript or Rust.

Node or bust

Why not? The market disagrees. Python has been replacing PHP for three years.

>python
yes, good idea
>web dev
no, horrible idea

"let me just marshal and unmarshall all this json instead of easily handling it with python"

JavaScript on front and backend :)

no. holy shit no. just read the fucking instagay blogposts on medium. python and cpython are so wildly shit, that these people literally cope with how shit it is by hacking the living shit out of the interpreter to do things that should have never been done.

if you want a scripting lang webapp, just fucking use nodejs. your frontend is going to be fucking javascript already so you might as well just benefit from all the code sharing you have there. Also, at least in nodejs you can just npm install and everything fucking works. good luck doing the same in python. you'll just end up coping with broken version mismatching with pipenv and all the gross venv and environment variable polluting shit.

that shit made me laugh when I first saw the standard lib method for deserialization of json. It reminded me of like the Java v1.0 days. How anyone can defend a lang that's objectively more regressive than fucking java is beyond me.

I do a lot of json parsing at my job and just started teaching myself go, Its pretty dumb and I cant believe my company loves it so much so much when theres garbage like this

Every time I see a website written in Java I want to commit sudoku. That shit eats 3 GB RAM just to output 20 sentences and a navbar.
Do you want to serve more than 5 visitors concurrently? That will be 15 GB RAM, sir!

this desu :))

Python:
- Slow as fuck, and I mean x100 slower than NodeJS and x200 slower than php
- Easy as fuck to script in, any brainlet can do it

NodeJS:
- Super Easy to script in
- Decent Speed
- Javascript ( can be a plus or minus, since you're doing web dev, might as well use this )

PHP:
- Old
- Fast
- Kind of annoying to work in, try it though.

No, basically , except use Java instead of Node. Retards like probably use outdated bloat like Spring anything or EE.

The fuck did you do?
i wrote a spring boot program in java for like a webshop and it only consumed 700mb RAM for like 20 visitors.

"let me just achieve ridiculously mediocre performance by using django instead of using fasthttprouter"

JSON is the industry standard.
You rather go back to XML.

The only sane way to do web development is to get someone else to do it

Tbh I find PHP 7.* with Symfony 4 quite pleasant to work with, which I didn't think was possible.

Not my thing really, but I don't see why people shit on php so much. People should shit on python not on java/javaScript/Php

>5 visitors concurrently? That will be 15 GB RAM, sir

Bruh, i really want to see your code.

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because PHP is objectively a broken ass language

$arg = 'T';
$vehicle = ( ( $arg == 'B' ) ? 'bus' :
( $arg == 'A' ) ? 'airplane' :
( $arg == 'T' ) ? 'train' :
( $arg == 'C' ) ? 'car' :
( $arg == 'H' ) ? 'horse' :
'feet' );
echo $vehicle;

go ahead and tell me what that prints

I found it extremely frustrating to work it.
Just cause of its syntax wanted me to puke.

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Yes OP it is. I would say Python or Node. Java can certainly do a A LOT, but oddly many of the helpful packages are old and unmaintained, whereas Python & JavaScript have thriving ecosystems

Python is such a shit choice for backend.
Rather go for Node or even some other JS framework and save you the trouble

For work I'm running an ASP.NET server with postgres on loonix, it only has 2 gb ram and is doing fine.
Java btfo.

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Unfortunetely, yes.

node is a runtime not a framework. try again
python is great on the backend, and there are a shit ton of backend frameworks to chose from, because so many people use it. pyramid, flask, twisted, django. those are the ones off the top of my head.

>because so many people use it
Cause it gets peddled in colleges and unies like a motherfucker like .net

Doesn't make it the right tool.

Like that hack Zuckerberg that still used PHP on FB.
That went well performance wise.

you're right, php was popular and it was absolute shit, but it had very little competition. python is popular because it's good, and it has a strong community because it's good. not the other way around

"right tool for the job" is still an opinion. in my opinion python is an excellent tool for web development

>python is popular because it's good

Nigguh, what fucking lang you using? Python is just shit and all the latest hip peps just show how incompetent the cpython dev's are. The grammars for the language get more confusing and less useful. I'm almost expecting a python4 soon.

You realize you're talking about a language that is so shit, Instagram had to change the cpython memory managing structs and turn off garbage collection to make it performant. They literally just spawn workers and reap them on out of memory. Literally that's how one of the largest sites are doing massive scale python webapps.

What literal fucking sane person will read this and think, I want this instead of a properly designed JIT/interpreter that isnt shit ass slow and has a proper event loop implementation and also doesnt rely on endlessly injecting C code targeting cpython abi or god forbid, actually changing cpython.

Python is shit.
f'{'Python Is a Fucking Joke'}'

> python is good

Holy shit, check some speed benchmarks, that shit was made for prototyping not to run real projects off of

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For an actual production app, Letting your JVM consume all the memory really isn't a problem. Would you rather have noisy GC happen all the time? Like for an actual real ass money making important web application in java, what else would you be running on the server that it matters if its eating 15GiB of ram?

This.

And i have heard a lot of students who are forces to make web apps in Python.
Even for fucking graphical design.

They are training a generation of fools who know no better.
Not that they can do something about they get learned this garbage and forced down their throat.

you misunderstand, we're talking about how much better Python is at json compared to Go

Java backend
React frontend

A fucking database, maybe? You know, it's quite difficult to allocate infinite resources to every Pajeet-tier app that runs on the server without it running out of memory.

this or Micronaut

Maybe you're a sane dev, the ones I have to deal with are retarded.

Hi neet,
Databases are on their own host
Love,
user with an actual job

C++ backend
C++ frontend

Python is easy that's all it is. It's not particularly fun to write in, a lot of shit to memorize. It's a scripting language trying to fill a different purpose. I already know Ruby bash and perl, why should I care about it. Because it's trendy? That's what node is there for.

I'd take typescript or kotlin compiled to nodejs any day.

You've never managed someone else's servers, have you? The fact that you have a separate DB server doesn't mean that a mom'n'pop shop with a website wants to pay for two servers instead of one. Stop being stupid, real world is not just your company.

A mom and pop shop wouldn't be running something intense enough where it will use up that much ram. Quit larping. It's embarrassing

Can confirm, work at a data recovery shop in the US and our webapp stress tested @ 8GB RAM was able to serve 11,000 requests per second. Using Spring Webflux we would have seen approximately 70k+ per second.

Spring is good imo

Common Lisp

That'll be $1,500 for three static pages and a contact form, along with a 24 month contract for $500 a month "maintenance" for your three static pages.

I'm not trying to build instagram, desu.

For heavy duty backend or complex backend like open bank project API for example.
For small projects its kinda overkill imo.

That totally sounds suitable for mass production.

I can agree, it is more suited to those types of large enterprise scale applications... but I still use it at home for a lot of my personal projects simply because I'm learning a lot of big data and machine learning stuff for work.

Consider the fact that it achieves very close to native code level performance, can run any code in any language using Polyglot and can compile down to machine code using GraalVM, there is only one cost to pay when using Java.

Verbosity. It is very verbose. Sometimes it can be a good thing. Sometimes it's a pain in the ass. But that's literally the only downside it has.

Also forgot to add: Polyglot is zero cost. I can run tensorflow inline inside my Spring service and have native levels of machine learning performance in my web app.

imagine living in SF

>GraalVM
Sounds interesting.
Wonder if it can speed up Java's JNI

PHP is unironically the best web language, don't replace it with durgascript or a fucking snake.