1031 Like Kind Exchange

It's bad enough people listen to the larpers and shitposters and trolls here about crypto trading, but when you listen to them about tax advice, that's a whole new level of retardation.
Several posters think it's funny to go into tax threads and give the worst possible advice, and you fell for it.

Don't do that anymore.

i don t live in this shithole you call land of the free

my tax on crypto is 10% on gains

Punch all trades in bitcoin.tax, click on 'reports and exports' tab, then click download and select "form 8949 pdf" ... give the 8949 to a CPA along with the rest of your tax information

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This is exactly the kind of post I'm talking about.

> paying taxes on crypto
Do you pay taxes on things you sell on craigslist and WOW too?

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Don't worry bro a correction is imminent, check the RVI.

How about you learn how to actually trade instead of gambling your money in such heavily manipulated markets. Learn forex and learn how to actually make money instead of holding a shitty coin and hoping for the best.

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Holy shit they'd actually go through each individual trade and do it? That must be the worst job on tge planet

Ok yeah, it literally was just people thinking if you do nothing it's automatically like-kind deferred. FUGG

It would be great if it were that simple. On what form do you report it like that? Once you go to do it, you'll get it.

I used American exchanges unfortunately.

That's not the 1031 Like-kind form. That's just if you want to pay on every trade.

NO!

I do not understand this whole bullshit with crypto trading. You only fucking report gains. All this paying taxes on crypto-crypto makes utterly no fucking sense. How are they going to track the true price of the assets you’re trading between when it’s random pajeetcoins that won’t exist by the end of the year?

Income tax filer here. Report the TOTAL gains subtracted by your TOTAL money put into crypto.

Enjoy your massive 5% gains while I get 50% in the middle of a bear market you boomer fuck.

Its not as complicated as it seems... you can also download a CSV file, which makes the process much easier, I had something like 11000 trades last year, really good CPA with crypto experience cost me $1750

It's mostly automated. If you file electronically, they just run scripts on it, make sure the numbers you put in match the market numbers they have. If you submit their form, they have scanners for paper and apps for PDFs, the fields are easy to detect and scan, then run the scripts. The only time a return is eyeballed scanned is when the system can't read it, like some mong scrawled his numbers on a paper form outside of the boxes. They hire a lot of seasonal workers to process paper returns.

Source: relative who works at the IRS.

>That's not the 1031 Like-kind form. That's just if you want to pay on every trade.

1031 is not for crypto, trying to claim it is just going to get you in trouble

>Income tax filer here. Report the TOTAL gains subtracted by your TOTAL money put into crypto.

How? On what form?

You are proving that you know nothing about forex. Any idiot could make 50% in forex aswell simply because we have massive leverage from 1:400 to 1:1000.

If you're able to make 50% you can surely lose them just as fast. What you do is not consistant at all and you'll surely never make that way it man.

Some random user posted this link long time ago and now 3 years I'm living the dream, trading fulltime from home. Maybe someone who is willing to put some time into his education will find the same path as I did. Bye

babypips.com/learn/forex

Capital gains. Report the cost basis as how much money you deposited into crypto in 17, report the price sold as gow much money you withdrew from crypto in 17.

Pretty basic.

I only have $350 in crypto. Is it even worth reporting?

I should amend this. It doesn’t have to be bought in 17 could have been bought earlier just put cost basis of everything sold. Those bought earlier than 17 are considered long term.

Don’t report it even if you’re filing, you will not be pressured

You did it wrong. You mean on your 1040 Tax Return you just put down the number and you didn't attach Schedule D and 8949?

I was in same boat as you. You have 3 options

1.) Accept that you need to report gains and use the Specific Designation clause to choose between LIFO, FIFO, AVERAGE COST, etc. You dont need to report FIFO

2.) Fill out 12,000 for 8824's which I said fick that because its way too complicated to even fill one out, and the amount of taxes youd be saving youll pay to some fucking accountant who will charge you $250 an hour AND the IRS can still fuck you in the future and charge you interest/penalties

3.) Roll the dice and dont report. Obviously this is a fucking retarded move and you could fuck up your whole life by having the IRS garnish your wages, take your house and fuck up your credit while you pay interest, penalty fees and back taxes for the foreseeable future

Depends, what did you start with, how many trades have you done, and what's your overall tax picture look like? If you're low income, the taxes you'd owe on pulling that little out into fiat would probably be covered by your personal deduction, and you'd owe no tax. That's not even close to being enough to touch your tax bracket.
Technically, you have to report all transactions, but honestly, I feel that under $500, I wouldn't even bother.

Different computer so different ID but same tax guy.

Yes, this all goes on Schedule D, capital gains. As for the 8949, the purpose of that form is (as stated on the IRS page):

"...Form 8949 allows you and the IRS to reconcile amounts that were reported to you and the IRS on Forms 1099-B or 1099-S"

Basically, that form is for if, somehow, the gains reported on the 1099-B for your typical stock trader is different from their true gains.

But for crypto, you don't get a 1099-B. This doesn't mean you have to fill out an entire 8949 full of nonsense the IRS wouldn't be able to verify anyway. You can total it up yourself by simply subtracting income put into crypto by income pulled out.

If questioned by the IRS, they won't be able to track cost basis of fucking chainlink by the hour on days that it mooned. They just don't have those resources and crypto is not tracked like that yet. They will take your word alongside the bank statement for how much USD you put into crypto and not give a shit about crypto-crypto.

>paying taxes on crypto to crypto trades
How will they know unless you tell them you absolute cucks
>inb4 coinbase subpoena, etc
That's what you get for using norman exchanges

Seems like a sound advice

Why report it? Seriously.

IRS basically is in cahoots w/ most exchanges.

If you sold a large amount of crypto, it will be reported to the IRS, and they will expect taxes.

Then why do all tax specialists in crypto say you need to use 8949 to report every single transaction or another attached statement? Why should I believe you over them?

bitcointaxsolutions.com/learn/bitcoin-tax-101/

>Generally speaking, reporting capital gains from the sale/exchange of bitcoin is the same as other types of capital assets (such as shares of stocks). So, net short-term and long-term capital gains are reported on Schedule D of Form 1040. The individual transactions themselves are reported on Form 8949. If there is a high volume of transactions, they can be reported on a separate statement and attached to Form 8949 instead. Note that each and every individual transaction must be reported on Form 8949 or an attached statement.

Are you saying if you didn't cash out usd to a bank account then you don pay yet?

because they make more money that way

There's a lot of larping and shitposting in these threads, assholes are trying to fuck people up by having them file incorrectly. That, or they're ignorant neckbeards who think it's impossible for the IRS to pull the market charts for a coin, look at your return, see you claimed "Bought coin A on [date] for [amount]. You could do this in EXCEL, for fuck's sake, and I was told by a relative who works there, it's all automated. They don't know if the IRS will quibble if you claim $7200.001, or they see $7200.0009, but they can automatically look at a date and price range and make sure your trades add up correctly, with a supposed margin of error. They do the same fucking thing for stock traders, why is it impossible for them to do it with crypto? Oh, neckbeards, that's why.

You retards that thought you werent going to have to pay taxes. Dur hur like kind.

Of course not. If you profited no usd there are no taxes to pay

No you owe for every trade. Its really not complicated.

Lol, rip Muricans

It's EZ here in the area of Eurofags

What if I sold some btc at profit then rebought lower? On a US exchange.

I literally have a spreadsheet with every trade I make as well as the time I bought, time I sold, price I bought, price I sold, etc

Why the fuck is this so hard for you?

Has anyone looked into cashing out as a business for lower capital gains rates/rates in general?

If you sold for more than what you bought oirginally then you owe tax. If you sell for less than bought claim the loss then rebuy you are probably in violation of wash rules. Its not complicated. There are just a lot of people who dont want to accept the truth. Every EVERY SINGLE TRADE is recorded as a seperate gain or loss.

Either you're lying or Cross Law Group is lying. I'm pretty sure it's you.

>As a consequence of bitcoin’s classification as “property,” every exchange of bitcoin is a taxable transaction. This includes exchanges of bitcoin for cash, for goods/services, and even for other altcoins.

>It is irrelevant whether or not the transaction involved fiat. If an exchange occurred, and as a result of that exchange the taxpayer gave up bitcoin and received something other than bitcoin in return, then a taxable transaction has occurred.

>Paying taxes on crypto like a good goy cuck faggot.

Tyrone Needs those gibs to buy hi,m some fucking bling and shit and to need his 6 starving niglets. Pay up White man.

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Just a misunderstanding. You still need to use the 8949, but you don’t have to report everything. You need to use only one line of the 8949 to at least report the fact that you had a cost basis/gain/loss, but you can group it all into one category: “cryptocurrency”, to report all cost basis and price together.

Again, we do this all the time with typical stocks, especially when bought at the same time

This, and anyone that's known to trade crypto will be audited forever.

How much do you make?

And if its made illegal will be forced to hand over all crypto.

And also if you’ve ever even googled bitcoin or cryptocurrency you’ll be arrested, imprisoned and routinely sodomized by the prison guards.

I don't think so, you're one of the people trying to lull people into a false sense of security, or just trying comfort yourself because you did it wrong and going to get audited.

I don't think Cross Law Group, bitcoin.tax, and all the CPA's listed on there are all just misunderstanding.

Yeah except what I said is accurate and you made something up because it was funny sounding.

How does this make any sense? Think about how the irs would have to enforce this: linking btc wallets to SSNs. We are years away.

As for crypto-crypto, the idea of taxable income coming from the transaction itself is impossible. Buying a coin is a 0% capital gain, not necessary to report. .5 BTC trades for .5BTC worth of coin X, or $1000 trades for $1000 worth of stock Y. You don’t report the each act of exchanging usd for stocks as its own transaction, that’s your cost basis for the final transaction (cashing out).

If you think you’re so right, explain to me how the IRS could feasibly differentiate between me reporting the transactions individually and me reporting the lump sum. Considering nothing is reported to them in terms of individual transaction cost basis for crypto, I could bullshit a 300 page 8949 as easily as a 1 page 8949.

There is literally no reason for you to do every single transaction individually unless you are audited. REPORT. THE. TOTAL. DENSE. FUCK.

>There is literally no reason for you to do every single transaction individually unless you are audited.
Normies want to think the big bad irs jews gonna anally rape your crypto wallets.
>they can't even find them

people with steemit accounts are in for a fun time. dozens of transactions a day at least. Usually more. Every upvote is a convertable amount. Voting power and steem power are convertable amounts. Imagine facebook where every upvote is a taxable event. Then to top it off you have to wait 13 weeks to cash out your earnings.

They’re taxable events insofar as they add to your taxable income, but it would all be reported together. If youre just given tokens for free the cost basis is 0 when you cash out. Thats it.

See if your taxes are more than your current amount of crypto, if yes, delete all wallet files and claim a loss for your initial investment.

>explain to me how the IRS could feasibly differentiate between me reporting the transactions individually and me reporting the lump sum.

Maybe the fact that you just put one line in the 8949 under the term "cryptocurrency" will clue them in on that.

>I could bullshit a 300 page 8949 as easily as a 1 page 8949.

I'm not talking about if you could get away with tax evasion or not. I'm talking about what THEY expect.

>There is literally no reason for you to do every single transaction individually unless you are audited

Because that's an impossibility right? I should bullshit my tax forms because I'll only go to jail if they audit me and find out.

this. yes they are taxable events, but they are all reflected in your final taxable income.

The platform mines tokens based on voting power and steem power during every upvote. So theres gonna be a fucking lot of zero cost basis. But on a lighter note the majority of my steem has been in my wallet for more than a year.

deleting wallet files wont do anything. Those wallets still exist on the blockchain.

I don't get the people saying crypto to crypto is not like kind. Of course it is. People have been filling crypto trades as like kind for years now. Its pretty much the definition of like kind. Like kind exchanges aren't common in stocks and such because unlike crypto stocks are all sold vs USD.

Its easy as fuck to do your taxes. Use bitcoin.tax. Cost $40. Import all your trades from the exchanges. You can also go to deltabalances.github.io and generate bitcoin tax files for your etherdelta trades to import into bitcoin tax. Then you can generate any form you need for like kind and any accounting method, whichever saves you the most money.

This is changing for 2018, but crypto to crytpo is 100% like kind exchange and you should take advantage of that.

If we figured out a way to temporarily dump the price of all crypto down to 1/10 its value right before January first it would be a way to lower how much everyone pays in taxes right?

Like imagine setting up a kind of holiday where we all just HODL doing zero transactions for 24 hours and essentially reporting the value of a coin to be almost nothing at that time. Then have it recover again in January.

I wonder if we will begin seeing that kind of thing going on.

>was it just a bunch of brainlets who think that it's automatically deferred without doing anything?
This one, I've been trying to warn people of this for about a year.

Except crypto is like kind. It is the definition of like kind. For example, collectable coins (psychical) exchanged for another type of collectable coin is a like kind exchange. How close can crypto get, its pretty much spot on. The only ambiguity is that "securities" are specifically excluded from being like kind exchange. But crypto isn't a security (only according to the SEC), according to the IRS its been clarified as property. Therefor crypto to crypto trades are like kind exchanges. Many people have reported them as such for years.

Not that its a huge dead because come next year the law is limiting like kind exchanges to real estate, so its only deferred for a year. Too bad because its a good policy because it doesn't punish you for reporting your crypto. Without like kind exchanges there is an incentive to hide trades.

Jesus christ. Not a single person in this thread understands how capital gains taxes work.

>1031 exchange
>FIFO
>keep records of profit/loss on every single trade

If you are doing any above the above three, you are certified retarded.

I'm saying that 99% of the people claiming its like kind thought that they did not have to report it at all. You still have to report it even if you're trying to use like kind.

oh, true

exactly, and these comments always get ignored too
Unless you are making trades of a couple thousand dollars each fuck off
You are a peon, no one cares about poorfag

Just don't even cash out, cash out next year
Shoot them off 10% of your TOTAL gains, and call it a day. Least you tried cuck

>Unless you are making trades of a couple thousand dollars each fuck off
Anyone who isn't still at least in five figures of profit fucked up horribly last year.

what kind of brainlet pays taxes?

It's what happens when you buy into the HODL meme. I bought in end of May when shit was pumpin. Got burned when I didn't sell, then saw (from my point a view) a assfucking of a crash. $380 to $180 or some shit. Recovered at break-even month's later.

Was up $400k in Jan cause of VEN, ICX, and XRB. (XRB is now a joke.)

Didn't sell.

Now back at orig invest.

Sad I can still see how much $$ people are making. Mar 23rd, ICX was at $4 due to Upbit pump. Back down to $2, 2 weeks later.

Makes me wonder how much money traders are making.

care to enlighten us?

Did you actually do it?

I just noticed that yeah it does have an option to generate an 8824 CSV file. But what do I do with it? Do I input this into turbotax? Walk me through it. I still feel uneasy about it and feel like I'm going to get audited. And no CPA's accept 1031 for crypto even for 2017.

>exactly, and these comments always get ignored too

Because it's not a very good argument and doesn't take away from the fact that crypto is indeed taxed by the IRS.

>Unless you are making trades of a couple thousand dollars each fuck off

I thought everyone was trading with at least a couple of thousand. What the fuck are you even wasting time here if you have less than that?

You can't do it after the fact - but if crypto trading is all you do, and you're committed to doing it for more than a year, you might want to look into an LLC, like day traders often do, for different rules/taxes, but you better learn what the paper is, and start filing quarterly.

Do you mean, like "I moved 5 bitcoins to bitmex, and then moved 6 coins back"? You don't have to record all the trades on one platform, just platform to platform? That's not how I understand it to work, but if you can point to legit sources that explain it, it would be handy.

They don't have to link to SS#s, it's already linked because you have to convert to fiat, and then pay taxes with fiat, on forms that link your SS#. And then you have to document your trades.

Yes it does. There is literally a like kind exchange option and it generates an 8824 form for you. Idiot

Ok with turbo tax you have to go through each field one by one for each like-kind exchange so that's not happening, unless you program a bot that takes the CSV data from the form that bitcoin.tax spits out and transfers it to thousands of pages.

I refuse to believe anyone actually does this. No CPA's will touch 1031 like kind for crypto with a 10 foot pole and won't even help you do it. Anyone who says they filed their crypto taxes as like-kind is larping. They just did nothing and think that it's automatically like-kind.

Hey guys I'm new here.

My son told me about this place and said I could learn how to sell bitcoin without buying it.

Can someone tell me how to become a bear?

I'm kind of new to all this stuff.

Thanks,
Jim

The reason to track every trade is they're looking for money laundering, especially from drug cartels and terrorists. Just reporting a lump sum triggers nasty things in the Patriot Act and other shit laws passed since.

Yeah and take the CSV that it spits out and try to file it. Try it, fuck face.

>cashing out crypto
>not betting on fiat crashing
never cashing out master race reporting in

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You can't reformat a CVS file into a PDF in EXCEL? That's like basic Office skills. You can append a PDF to your tax form, you act like this is some arcane science, it's just basic bookkeeping some minimum wage temp could do in 15 minutes.

I mean a couple thousand on EACH trade brainlet. Not your total holdings
Most ppl on biz are NOT trading a couple thousand dollars of coins on the daily. Unless they are trading most of their stack at once like a fool. There are a ton of poorfags here with a total holding of like 1000 dollars of coins , and trading 100 bucks at a time.

try going up to the average person in the street and ask them if they can do this. man people are sure airheaded.

I will live to see IRS niggers hung from lampposts screencap this.

Me to man me to. Fiat is for faggots. I keep just enough fiat to fullfill my needs and that's it

that's actually a good advice, better play stupid and pay interest/;penalties for a few years back than get cucked out of money after each year going through this fucking hassle of calculating everything.

And no bitcoin.cucks wont cut it. It cannot even deal with fees in BNB last time I checked lmao.

Yes. Append on the E-Z file site.

Terry, is that you?

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this,
>unverified exchanges
>no one knows you actually traded the btc/eth you bought for fiat
>you are incognito
>can cash out wherever you want whenever you want