What are Jow Forums's thoughts on universal basic income?
As a toiler, I would love more free time to explore the world, and my skills on my own time. Would do anything for that kind of freedom. But, the sad fact of life is that it isn't possible for everyone.
Let us know what you think, I'll leave you with this little speech by Brain Eno
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ed miliband likes it
and thats enough for me
lets do it!
We'll need it to keep plebs like you from rioting after robots replace you, would just say we should kill you all instead but too many people would find it too distasteful for that to be viable. Not needed yet though.
>muh human rights
No more gib me dats, i dint think so op not in this lifetime anyway
Dumb commie shit that is completely unrealistic for non homogeneous society.
No one else should be responsible for paying for you to do any of that shit
You talk about freedom and then expect others to pay for your vacations. fuck you.
Hardship and the act of struggling are necessary for the growth of a nation and its people. The more is provided as a default, the more we become stagnant, unmotivated, and we will sink even further into the apathetic and nihilistic degeneracy that already plagues the West.
most of humanity is so unimaginative that the only think they can think of doing with free money and free time is take a month off on vacation
and then what, you "travel" on welfare and then you have 50+ years left
"Therefore a wise prince will seek means by which his subjects will always and in every possible condition of things have need of his government, and then they will always be faithful to him."
UBI is literally inevitable
if the human race is to progress in any meaningful capacity, automation WILL replace many jobs and, quite simply, there will not be enougj labour to go round
the options are
1) technological luddism that retards our growth as a species
2) made-up frivolous busywork for no purpose other than to keep people busy via wageslavery (grim)
3) UBI
i dont believe those mongoloids who think we need it right now, or even jn the next half-millenia, but we WILL need it eventually
>or even in the next 500 years
You think automation will be that slow?
4) Kill the now useless human cattle by the millions and keep the bare minimum possible as useful bag of organs
it wouldn't change how supply and demand work. if you'd like things to be inexpensive and not have to wait in line for them, then people will have to do jobs to make industries and cities grow.
It already exists in the form of socialism in advanced nations. Is what's provided not enough. We can't all live a life of leisure OP
UBI is distributed as localized crypto that is a glorified food stamp. It is useless for purchasing the means of production, luxuries, and land. Anything meaningful is transacted in globalized currencies that are backed by a global store of value (???). There is no minimum wage, so if you can find some way to be useful, you can dance for minuscule amounts of real money.
Most people do fuck all with this freedom and it is like a trailer park version of the old French aristocracy. Shitty parties, rivalries, people addicted to AI generated stories and games.
Eventually AI or some bright human figures out how to use genetically improve and cybernetically enhance humans enough to make them competitive. Doing this with billions of humans is more practical than manufacturing these beings.
UBI ends and everyone who opted in is fit to work and the true golden age of man begins.
It's critical to understand the sorry state of modern man stems almost entirely from the lack of true need, without the imposed structure of need we find ourselves lost and largely without purpose. The vast majority of the human race is intellectually unequipped for self determinism, low functioning retards are bored unless given a menial task. This is why we have such massive systemic inefficiency rampant in any given domain, to create ways for people to pass the time. How many people do you know who are currently pursuing their dream or purpose? That have found a higher calling or fulfillment outside of some wagecuck faggotwork? If the mind of a man is capable of contemplating something truly valuable, he will already be pursuing it. Look to your social circle and ask how many men live their lives in pursuit of something they truly value and you'll have your answer, the common man is fit for common tasks, society is structured for the no existent common man, which is defacto the bottom of the curve. If you are capable, you are already free. If you are not, freedom is a darker hell than you should ever want to know.
TAXATION IS THEFT
Therefore
UBI IS THEFT
I appreciate your symmetrical numbers and your words
You know basic income is essentially forced charity.
>4) Kill the now useless human cattle by the millions and keep the bare minimum possible as useful bag of organs
Daily reminder the rich will nuke us from orbit after they strip mine this rock completely.
Like we already have UBI for old and handicapped people. And we're at a budget deficit. So if you want some money too you're taking it away from old people or stealing unreasonable amounts from income earners.
So basically, this is actually a really compelling idea, if you are a complete commie faggot who has no clue about the economic calculation problem.
>lets just give everyone free money so they never have t o work again lmao
>I swear theyre gonna work anyway though
why do people seriously discuss this concept
The same reason that people post about what a coin does, when in reality, the only thing that makes a difference is how much a coin is hyped up.
Why do you faggots keep insisting on this? There's a basic income thread every other day. It's pie in the sky commie delusion, get over it
Saged
Daily reminder the Chinese will nuke us from orbit once we've been replaced by niggers.
If there were ever something more delusional than gommunism it would be this. Gommunism is basically state enforced slavery where the government forces you to work or die. This shit is literally "yeah lets just give people money with no backing to it or any productivity required" It will be completely worthless almost instantly and the only currency worth a damn will be currency with some sort of backing to it, either productivity, scarcity, or back to bartering.
>implying the elites won't just have the robots kill us all off
>Hey Guys :DD
>I Ghave an Igea :DD :DDD
>Lets gry gommunism again :D
>Also sanic
How about no.
The amount of taxation on the remaining productive members would go through the roof. You'd also get even more subhumans walking into your country.
Everybody miserable and starving
>nod real gommunism :DDD
Agenda 21 fag detected.
The only way to make UBI work is to dramatically improve the collective intellect of the population.
Currently almost everyone is satisfied with J.S. Mill's lower levels of pleasure, non-creative, non-intellectually stimulating activities, like social media, 24 hours news, TV shows, consuming trash food, etc...
If a population that primarily spends its free time on those activities is given UBI and the right to vote, the whole society will degrade into apathy and degeneracy.
If the population is engaged in Mill's higher levels of pleasure, things like creating music, art, research, travel, inventing, writing, etc... Then UBI can work, because people are actively creating worthwhile things while not working.
Basic gestalt?
Or the other solution would be to give every person a piece of land and have them till their own food. Industrial technology and its production could be delegated to robots (if they get advanced enough) while those essential to human survival like production of food could be delegated to human labor. At least people will have something to do and not feel useless while at the same time encouraging the growth of the human species since agricultural society often needs children in order to help with the household. This could be a mix of techno-agriarian society where the best and brightest go create new ideas and inventions while at the same time the masses till the land and be productive for the benefit of all. It's a win-win.
You'll decrease the supply of labor and devalue money in the process
You forget
4) poorfags die in a gutter
oh mercy I am really loling at that picture
It will happen in the future. Or some things will become gratis.
So many jobs will dissapear and so many jobs have dissapeard
I do wonder what will happen when millions of (mostly males) are unable to be the providers they traditionally were and are forced to accept a monthly check because there is no work for them to do. Apathy or despair is all I can see. You'd either have to do what you say, get people interested in the arts and higher pursuits and decouple the self-worth from the notion of having a job. I think the second one is already starting to happen.
UBI is a good idea in theory, but the reason it's getting popular in Silicon Valley circles is because it maintains the status quo. The idea of providing something for the poor is only controversial to far-right edgelords, libertarians, and 17 year olds who just read Atlas Shrugged. A lot of people can get behind UBI, and it keeps consumer-driven economy chugging along. No money means no one is buying from Amazon, and no consumer spending means that no one is larping as rich on Instagram or normiebook. It sidesteps the problem of whether or not our current system is even desirable and just gives people the money they need to continue propping it up.
I'd prefer an expanded negative income tax that lets people take home more of their pay. Why tax what you like? Tax stuff like soda, junk food, cigarettes, alcohol, and weed. We need to consider getting rid of the property tax abatements too.
These threads have the highest amount of obvious retards in them. Why would you be against reforming entitlements?
>hurr durr communism
Centralized handouts like government run services and welfare are much more socialist. Just handing out checks fits much better in a decentralized system of capitalism.
youtube.com
new trailer trash lower class that does nothing but fornicate and be generally a pain in the ass with walmart clones catering to their every need which is basically tobacco, alcohol, meth and cheetos. on the other end of society a never ending series of pointless cup cake shops. also somewhere in between inflation and the death of virtues.
freed up resources will chase services and goods that previously seemed wasteful. automation will bring about the youtube-industrial complex. why is this so hard to grasp that technological progress doesn't mean the end of times. it's not like humanity ended with the invention of the plough.
At some point in the future, when AI, nano tech, and 3D Printing all reach more of their potential, the overwhelming majority of jobs will be eliminated. But, so would a lot of the need for money.
In theory, 3D printing could timely print any consumer good out of recyclable material. Want to play tennis? Print a racket. When you're done, toss it in the recycling bin. Your house wouldn't need to store much shit. Most consumer goods would therefore have infinite supply. Regardless of demand, the price would be zero. Solar powered 3D printers could even print housing. AI could grow and transport food to local distribution centers. Nano bots could be constantly monitoring your health and performing medical maintenance on a continuous basis.
We would still need to decide who gets to live by the beach, and who lives in Nebraska. There would be some jobs, monitoring and developing AI and nano tech. Law enforcement and judicial systems. Creative endeavors would beget a financial reward. And that's fine, because we would still have to decide who lives by the beach and who lives in Nebraska.
At this point in our future, a lot of the problems that a UBI propose to solve have been rendered moot. There would be jobs available to the Ubermenschen; but the commoners wouldn't need one, nor have one available. Until we reach these tech levels, we'll need a transition strategy, and I'm not convinced UBI will solve anything. It would probably just cause inflation.
I'd start with more vacation time and shorter work weeks for laborers, offset with more shifts to keep people employed, and periodically scaled downward until jobs are eliminated. George Jetson was complaining about a 4-hour work week. Worrying about the loss of jobs, which is the need to work, is looking at it all wrong. We should be rejoicing.
>Receives UBI check
>I needs me mo' soda pop and mo' teevee channuls tuh watch cuz I aint workin' all day and the ol channuls iz boaring...gibs me mo' UBI sose muh 12 chillins could watch mose teevee and drink mo soda and I could have mo malt liquor fo muh new boyfren
>Gladly Ms Shawanna! Just vote for me and we'll increase your UBI!
>Yeah white Jew boi! I votes for you!
>Humanity sinks a little lower thru apathy and degeneracy
>No one saw this coming.
Wow thats a really cool post number
t. Milton Friedman
No because being a wagecuck the nanny state will inevitably place the burden of paying for it on my wagecuck income.
The only outcome of universal gibs will be further reducing the middle class while nothing will change for everyone else, the poor will stay poor for exactly the same reasons why they're poor to begin.
like all conservative welfare styled bismark reforms its a literal band-aid solution concerned more with appeasement while do nothing managerial staff keep making more money
Fucking retardittors trying to camo communism.
Kys, faggot
Can you explain why 200 years of industry, and 50 years of computers, haven't caused mass unemployment?
>welfare doesn't do that already but even worse
But who is that provided for? And why? If there are finite resources on earth, why would those things be provided to, as an example, an Afgani farmer? Wouldn't those in control of resource allocation favour the interests of themselves and their descendents over ordinary people around the world?
Most of the society is lazy fucks, given the chance they won't work.
For ubi to work, you need to tax working class accordingly, which would put even more pressure to working class, not to work. What you'll eventually get is %90 of the society not working, or not adding any value to its' society and cause stupid amount of inflation, especially on physical/skilled works.
I'll give a simple example; I decided to work as a plumber 20hr a week. The only reason I'd do it if I was guaranteed to make extremely well compared to rest of the shits.(5-10x of lazy assholes after taxes)
The way a system like that can only work after we are completely surrounded by ai+ settled industry 4.0. Most companies will be completely automated and will pay dividends to shareholders(as there will be no board of directors or barely any workers in factories, most of the revenue will become profit). It'll be a distribution of wealth, smart people will buy the shares way earlier than laggards.And laggards will still be able to live as they were working for minimum wage, maybe do something(serve richer people) to get by.
UBI will destroy spending power so consistently that UBI will need to be increased every six months.
The ideal we should be striving for is a world with high spending power. Automation increases spending power. If spending power gets high enough, everyone will be able to pay for a family and a mortgage on the equivalent of Amazon mechanical turk or WOW gold mining. That is, we want a world where everyone can live on 0.50$ a day. UBI, inflationary central banks, and minimum wage laws are antithetical to this.
This world needs poor people/niggers/pajeets/child workers/general 3'rd world shitholes so that us future millionaires can stay perma-rich.
Fuck commies
>made-up frivolous busywork for no purpose other than to keep people busy via wageslavery (grim)
tfw you realize we've 100% been here for probably 40 years, all that's happening is the technology is becoming more and more advanced to accomodate less people eventually
yeah, let's start with you
Famous capitalists like Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek supported a UBI. President Richard Nixon even proposed a Guaranteed Basic Income.
I support it. It would allow countless people to leave terrible bosses and would incentivize employers to treat their employees with greater dignity and respect.
I would hope a UBI is coupled with legislation, like in France, preventing employers from firing employees because they refuse to answer e-mails after work is over and on the weekends. Work does not set you free.
I like that idea
So nothing new, then.
I'm personally gonna implement it in my city. >:I