Was Trianon justified?
Was Trianon justified?
Brandon Ramirez
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Blake Torres
I cant understand why Hungary got cucked by Austria too
Evan Morris
Compared to the Treaty of Versailles, Trianon was a peace of cake
Justin Powell
yes but it was too harsh
self-determination of peoples (that piece of land given to Austria is inhabited by Germans)
however the Entente fucked that up because much of Eastern Europe's borders weren't made on ethnic/linguistic borders at all and they only granted self-determination to some
Liam Martinez
They generally did a good job and most of the exceptions had good reasons like securing sea access for the new nations. Their only mistake was forgetting that Eastern Europeans are barely human and need to be kept completely separated from each other or they start committing genocide
Liam Thompson
The Memelland was a historic part of Lithuania and traditionally inhabited by Baltic tribes. Even in the interwar years it had a significant Lithuanian population and was influenced by Lithuanian culture.
On the same note the "Polish corridor" which separated East Prussia from Germany had Polish and/or Kashubian ethnic majorities, with the exception of Danzig, which had a German majority population and became a free city
The allies didn't fuck up when it came to securing sea access, they did fuck up a lot of other border lines though.
Ayden Russell
No
Julian Richardson
some of the major flaws were in my opinion not letting Austrians and the inhabitants of Danzig and the Sudetenland decide whether or not they want to be part of Germany
same with Szeklerland and Hungary
I'm not too aware of the situation in Yugoslavia but considering the ethnic hatred during and after WW2 I suppose the solution there wasn't the best either
other problems were Ukraine, Belorussia and the eastern Polish border but the Entente couldn't really influence that due to the rise of the Soviets and the Polish-Soviet war "solved" some of these issues by force
Mason Watson
I would say that it was the other way around. Hungary got a much harsher punishment.
Also, Germany tried to impose an equally harsh treaty on Russia, but its effects never came into effect because of the rise of Bolshevism and the treaty of Versailles.
en.wikipedia.org
Germany forced Russia to sign a very harsh and disastrous treaty. That treaty also contributed to the rise or bolshevism.
Kayden Cox
No. Neither was this.
Austin Sanchez
No.
Christian Roberts
Brest-Litovsk was signed when the Soviets were already in power
also Germany was still fighting a war against the Western powers
but yes it was very harsh
Julian Barnes
Fucking FASCIST
Ryan Jones
>when the Soviets were already in power
Ah, okay, my bad
Christopher Ward
Luis Kelly
>That treaty also contributed to the rise or bolshevism.
The bolsheviks signed the treaty...
Because they were financed by germs, you do know that right?
dw.com
thetimes.co.uk
de.wikipedia.org
history.state.gov
>Z. and L. got in touch with Imperial Bank of Germany through the bankers (D?) Rubenstein, Max Warburg and Parvus.
>Note: L. is the present People’s Commissioner of Education. Z. is not a Bolshevik, but a right Social Revolutionist and in the discard, whereabouts unknown. Parvus and Warburg both figure in the Lenin and Trotsky documents. P. is at Copenhagen. W. chiefly works from Stockholm.
>Mr. Raphael Scholnickan,
>Haparanda.
>Dear Comrade: The office of the banking house M. Warburg has opened, in accordance with telegram from the Rhenish Westphalian Syndicate, an account for the undertaking of Comrade Trotsky. The attorney [?] purchased arms and has organized their transportation and delivery track Lulea and Vardö to the office of Essen & Son in the name Luleå receivers and a person authorized to receive the money demanded by Comrade Trotsky.
>J. Fürstenberg
>Note: This is the first reference to Trotsky. It connects him with banker Warburg and with Fürstenberg. Luleå is a Swedish town near Haparanda.
en.wikipedia.org
>also known as Jakub Fürstenberg, was a prominent Old Bolshevik and close associate of Vladimir Lenin, famous as one of the financial wizards who arranged, through his close working relationship with Alexander Parvus, the secret German funding that saved the Bolsheviks.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
Oliver Cook
>en.wikipedia.org
Some accuse Parvus of having funded Lenin while in Switzerland. Historians, however, are skeptical. A biography of Parvus by the authors Scharlau and Zeman have concluded that there was no cooperation between the two. It declared that "Lenin refused the German offer of aid." Parvus's bank account shows that he only paid out a total of 25,600 francs in the period between his arrival in Switzerland in May 1915 and the February Revolution of 1917. Parvus did little in Switzerland, historians conclude.[20] Austrian intelligence through Parvus gave money to Russian emigre newspapers in Paris. But when the sources of this funding became clear in the beginning of 1915 and more widely understood—Lenin and the emigres in Paris rejected such support. Harold Shukman has concluded, "Funds were plainly not flowing into Lenin's hands" [21]
Kayden Myers
Yes, by the principle of "you lost the war so you get btfo by the victor" or as some call it "vae victus"
Thomas Sanders
That's a very questionable and morally grey stance to take, as seen by ethnic tensions that persist in countries like Ukraine and Slovakia to this day.
Jordan Brown
>let's ignore the correspondence, which you can literally find stored in US archives
Chase Taylor
no give it back
Henry Lopez
Morals have nothing to do with it, the traditionally accepted rule in war is that if you completely defeat the enemy you get to do whatever you want to him.
From a self-determination standpoint Trianon was too harsh, some of the areas ceded did have hungarian majorities and that doesnt take into account the areas with pluralities
Henry Butler
And that leads to all kind of problems (such as fifth columns or insurgencies) that will eventually stab you in the back.
Leo Watson
Not an expert, but didnt hungarians opress their ethnic minorities?
Hudson Harris
No. NEM NEM SOHA
Erdély nem román
Lucas Watson
>this is what kr*uts honestly believe
Versailles unironically did nothing wrong
Daniel Rogers
I know Germany let Lenin and his men pass through, but would you have acted differently if you were Germany in that situation? The Russian Republic was waging war against Germany, do you expect your enemy to be nice to you or something?
Jeremiah Thomas
Like clockwork
Zachary Johnson
eee!
Austrian
100% German...
Aaron Scott
No. Neither was Treaty of Versailles