Could the Irish language ever be revived?

there is actually an alternative incentive but it only last until the end of school, which is that Irish speaking schools get more points for doing their leaving certificate in Irish

As long as Northern Ireland is under British occupation it won't happen

It would be more useful if you learned the Spanish language.

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Nope.

I've looked into it and the Irish have no will to preserve it.

I mean, either fully accept Irish identity and revive the language or just give up and admit you are English people now.

At least Egyptians, Maghrebis don't deny they are Arabs now

They're actually opening a new Gaeltacht (Irish-speaking area) in Dublin and investing 178m into it

irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/government-to-invest-178m-in-gaeltacht-and-irish-language-1.3457467

But I think it has more to do with it being taught very badly in schools and it being extremely difficult to learn.

They're very stingy with it unless you speak it with a Gaeltacht accent.
Which you can't because they teach hybridised Munster gibberish in all the school material, the teaching profession draws from non-natives, and everything in "official society" is based on bombarding us with Anglo-Irish, English, and American culture.
The absolute best you can create within the school system is an "amphibian" who can swim in the water but not live in it. Even then no one who does well in the school system maintains any fluency unless they can live in the Gaeltacht, which is utterly economically and socially moribund, or if they are "Republican" fanatics, who are looked upon with almost as much contemptuous hatred as those who hold onto the Catholic way of life. They'd actively bring back the penal laws on both of them if control of the media, wealth, and government didn't already work to erode "old Ireland".

>They're actually opening a new Gaeltacht (Irish-speaking area) in Dublin
I want to shoot whoever says this with a straight face.
They had the Gaeltacht since the beginning of this state, and it's collapsed from emigration, and massively understated encroachment, typically from the rich, particularly along the coast of Galway and Kerry, ie: the last places where there was any hope of maintaining an organic Gaeltacht.
Dublin is a wretched shithole full of foreigners, drug addicts, and wasters crowding around the Anglo-Irish capital looking for consumerist wageslavery opportunities. You cannot "create" a Gaelatcht there, when the actual Gaeltachts you have are so tiny and exsanguinated.

just fund some anti-anglo propapganda and ban english

It needs to be pushed harder. Just forcing people to "learn" it isn't enough. One needs to incentivise its use and harshly penalize usage of other languages. Create a culture of people taking firery pride and passion out of using the language. Then those people will police the people who don't and scare them into going along with it. A party needs to be created to unify the people who feel strongly about the language and attract new people. A paramilitary wing of irish language supporters should be created to help project the power of the cause and intimidate those who are opposed to it.

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This guy gets it.

bump

DuDE jUsT uNiTe tHe NoRtH AnD SOutH LMAO

No, it's over.

live in the north and was never taught it nor does anyone in my family or friend group speak it
it's a bit sad

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yes
but i think it's pretty neat as a sort of liturgical language for irish culture

we iz all irish

During the Gaelic Revival, there was an attempt to revive many aspects of Irish culture such as the language, trad music, literature, dancing, sport, etc.. Sport was easily the most successful with the foundation of the GAA and its subsequent flourishing, while the language still stagnated. The reason that sport was the most successfully revived was because it was the one that took the least cognitive effort to engage in. This is a reflection on how Irish people aren't intelligent (see IQ and functional illiteracy) so they aren't willing to dedicate the mental effort to bilingualism but would rather work on physicality. If we were more academically inclined like the Jews were, we could revive a language like they could

would i be mocked as a muh heritage fag if i moved to ireland and studied gaelic? i already have irish citizenship but i've tried to steer away from muh heritage as much as possible

>This is a reflection on how Irish people aren't intelligent (see IQ and functional illiteracy) so they aren't willing to dedicate the mental effort to bilingualism but would rather work on physicality.
Bullshit. It's about ownership and economic structure. Every GAA player controls their bodies, but who controls the media, the government, and much of the wealth of the country?
The big secret of Irish history is that the "ascendancy" class stopped being a threat even before Parnell, and even before the twentieth century the land, aka the "primary industry" was transferred away from huge landowners, so power passed to the "bourgeoisie", which in Irish terms meant the "middleman" class, and it is they who have controlled the country ever since.
Look at the history of the "civil war", that's what that was, it was the subjection of Irish Ireland by English "Ireland".

The Jews were able to self-transform into Hebraic culture because the Jews controlled Jewish society, and the media that was consumed by the Jews. They did not read Arabic writings, did not go to Arabic synagogues, and did not organise along Arabic political lines led by Arabs larping as Jews.

You will always be mocked, no matter what you do.
That's life.
The challenge for Americans is to seek to re-become something other than sink into the morass of the media-neutralised 56%. But don't expect salvation to come from Ireland or Irishness in an American context.

It's very simple, just do the same thing as we did to revive Hebrew: Offer all public services, from schools to hospitals to voting lists, exclusively in Irish. Suppress or even ban English language media, and force even foreign brand names to be translated.

Probably too late at this point though because of the internet.

"teaching" Irish is pointless. Make it the mandatory language of instruction.

For what? For Irish people to have their own language for basically no benefit?

good post

~t. english teacher

>most hindi speakers don't speak english
he is wrong though

Easily but Irish people are literally too lazy.

Listen to him. Hebrew is the model the irish should follow for reviving their language. Just force it on 'em without mercy, nevermind if you harm the languages already spoken in the process.

Exactly. There'd be no harm in it either. All English adds to this country is enabling us to watch capeshit and propaganda without translation.

Language is a tool for communication, true. But the point isn't the people it allows you to communicate with, but the ideas that you can express with it, and how it shapes your thinking.

I guess it won't be the same, because with Israel, it wasn't just that Hebrew was forced, but that there was no common language to begin with. The most natively spoken language at the time by Jews in Israel/Palestine was probably Yiddish, but it wasn't the vast majority among Ashkenazim, and once the Mizrahim arrived, it wasn't even a regular majority. There was obviously a cultural and national reason to choose Hebrew specifically, but at any rate we did NEED a unifying language, something Ireland already has, English.

they did this during the foundation of the state (didn't work lol)

Make irish mandatory for accessing all governmental posts.
There, done.
Also this

But no one, even the few people who speak Gaelic natively, speak it as their main language. They'll still "experience reality in English", in Sapphire-Worf terms.

That's not true there's still many people who speak it as their day-to-day tongue.

It would have worked in a generation, but you gave up too early. This kind of thing takes time and effort. I mean, our first few prime ministers could barely speak proper Hebrew (Ben Gurion famously didn't really understand Hebrew cases), but they still gave all public speeches in it, and all laws were written in it.

There is no capacity to force Irish on everybody, there simply wouldn't be enough willing enforcers. The spirit of national identity and revival are long dead.

Maybe Irish-Gaelic but not Scottish-Gaelic. It's a heritage language, the kind of thing you speak at home to your grandparents.

Maybe 20000 at most. Even in the Gaeltacht English is practically equal (or higher) in esteem especially among the younger people.

I've always said that when they first starting teaching Irish they should have followed the example the French did in Brittany. But now there's no way you could get away with punishing children like that, and the teachers are shit enough at the language anyways.

They did a census in 2016 and found that 73,803 use Irish daily outside schools.

At first, certainly. But if their attempts to mold their spoken language to fit the thoughts they wished to express was stopped, for example by heavily stigmatizing english loanwords and sentance structure - the anglization of irish, in other words - then I should think that new forms of expression will take their place that the people will then begin to see as common and affect their thinking. Especially this would happen with academics, authors and linguists being sponsored and comissioned to try to make irish as rich and appealing as possible.

half of your people speak russian at home, quater arabic

There's always the risk it'll drive public opinion the other way. There was a big debate in the late 60's by a group of people who wanted to revoke Irish being a mandatory subject, I wouldn't want them to gain any legitimacy.

Really though the simplest thing we could do would be stopping English being a mandatory Leaving Cert subject. You could still have it there for people who want to but I don't see it necessary for most Irish students to learn some Shakespeare play.

If you really can get away with child creulty, just remove children from their families to removed institutions and expose them to only irish. Like with native americans and sami

Irish Anons, how much Irish language media for children is there? That is really the best metric. Some of the first things to be translated to modern Hebrew were children's songs and words like ''doll'', ''candy'', or ''toy''.

We have a channel called TG4 that shows children's films and cartoons in Irish.

At first you have to post in /éire/ only in Irish.

Does any Irish poster ITT use it at home, talking with family members, or among friends?

English isn't de jure mandatory AFAIK. It's collectively enforced by schools and later matriculation requirements.

There's an Irish language tv station that runs children's programmes and plenty of "babby's first gaeilge" books. The bigger issue being what little really exists beyond that.

youtube.com/watch?v=0de-qUxHLBk

If Ukrainian and Hebrew can make a comeback I don't see why not

I'd never want to move to Ireland. Struggling against english feels difficult enough in the Nordic countries. Can't imagine how dispiriting it must feel in the remnants of a country where it has already won

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We're making a mistake by not having the orphanages be exclusively Irish-speaking.

>just remove children from their families to removed institutions and expose them to only irish
There are programs that send teenagers out into the Gaeltachts to stay with a family for a few weeks to learn the language, but then they go home to their English speaking families and it goes to waste.

Ireland is first world and democratic. People just can't be arsed to give a shit, and they don't have a sufficiently authoritarian state to force it on them.

Ukrainian is from the same language group as Russian. For example I learned Polish by internet only. Not fluent, but can speak it.

Hebrew was an idea of the jewish state and had been supported by goverment.

You should make content in it. I learned Polish because it has a lot of cool music and covers.

youtube.com/watch?v=r1PK45qbMpY

Is it popular? Do American/English kids' shows get dubbed to Irish? Is there popular Irish pop music?

No matter how hard a parent or teacher tries to make a child learn a language, in the end he'll want to use a language, any language, to talk their friends about the latest episode of Pokémon, or about the cool new song their pop idol released.

Most of Ukrainians speak Russian, but with the local accent (some with very strong).

Shows get dubbed into Irish but the reality is that most will just watch it in English considering most of the channels available are British

The distribution of the population pyramid might surprise you. The Gaeltacht is moribund.

No, there are still people who are raised with Irish as their first language. It's halfway, but you can go without really speaking to English-minded people into your teens. There's probably less than five hundred of those born each year though, if that.

Make /éire/ threads only in Irish. Yep, it would be uncomfy first time, but may help.

Then it will never happen. A language isn't revived by adult learners, but by children born into it.

>It's halfway, but you can go without really speaking to English-minded people into your teens. There's probably less than five hundred of those born each year
Nice. You're gonna wanna pump those numbers up, those are rookie figures. Big irish families means there's still hope

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It is if they're fluent and make content. First czech grammar was in German.

If the Georgian and Armenian languages and scripts could survive then anything can

It's only going to get worse as the Gaeltacht bleeds young people. They go off to have families elsewhere and never pass Irish onto their children for some reason.

But what they did is raise their children in Czech.

Well, Hebrew was really a dead language for a very long time, like it was used only for religious purposes and not spoken natively. Ukrainian, Belarusian, Slovakian, Lithuanian, Latvian, Estonian, I think Finnish too, and many other similar languages were never dead, they were widely spoken by peasants and the only problem was to create or re-create their modern literary standards and also create a kind of "intelligentsia" that would want to use them in their professional everyday activities.

Ireland, from the establishment of the free state, was governed by men too educated and too focused on national well being, other than that retarded yank Dev. Men who were too objective and too inclined to prove to the British that we aren't radicals or crazy fascists. Which is why all the extreme movements in the free state, like the red scare or the fascists, were suppressed swiftly and effectively by the government that would rather use immoral means to pacify the country, rather than use austerity to enforce religion/culture/language, which were a merely recreational and aesthetic point of independence.

Ask the jews, allah's curses upon them

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The successful revival of Hebrew is probably cause by an actual need that is to communicate with all Jewish people immigrate into Israel from different part of the world and speak different languages. There are probably no such need in Ireland for now.

>too educated and too focused on national well being
That's not it at all. National well-being would have involved a revolution and an overthrow.
>Men who were too objective and too inclined to prove to the British that we aren't radicals or crazy fascists.
Blaming it on the British is putting the cart before the horse. People sided against the proto-fascists (which they were) of language revival, land redistribution, and militarism because they feared being on the receiving end of that tendency (which was not as developed as they would have thought).
The "compromising" tendencies of the so-called free staters was not a result of these "educated and focused on national well being" people being put in power, it was the very precondition for support by the British.

Most Jews would have spoken Yiddish though, and they could have forced the Mizrahi and Sephardi to "integrate" into that had the rulers of Israel not been animated by an active desire to refound a Hebrew state, unlike the scum in charge of Ireland.

>Most Jews would have spoken Yiddish though
There were probably more speakers of Polish than of Yddish

>They somehow need to make them more enthusiastic about it.
Just ban speaking Irish and suddenly they'll all speak it fluently.

Settlers at the time still need to push an language over for all population to learn and they picked Hebrew, and as such Hebrew have been revived in the process. In Ireland now there are no such need for population to learn a language to communicate with each others, so they aren't learning.

See also how Singapore pushed its Chinese population into learning Mandarin Chinese

the british banned it from the national schools and it was pretty effective at killing it (among other factors)

>dude fuck national identity lmao
Pragmatism is a disgusting stance in linguistics and life in general. A language is far more than just a tool for communication, if it was otherwise we'd be all speaking some super-efficient souless esperanto instead of our own languages.
And anyway, it's easy for him to say stuff like this when the whole world speaks English.

Singapore should have made Cantonese the Chinese language desu

>and they picked Hebrew
As I understand it, Hebrew was a major animator of Jews in the diaspora, because it was "theirs" and something they all had in common. It wasn't just a case of "picking it", it was something that animated them to care about Zionism in the first place.

make UK ban it in Northern Ireland with penalties for speaking/using. Make UK burning books in irish. You won't even realize when the entire Ireland will be fluent in Irish.
Polish was banned for more than 120 years, any documents/books written in our language had been getting destroyed either by Germans, either by Russians. Using it could put you in jail or sometimes you could get killed.
Before the ban, people prefered to use frenchm latin or mix of those with polish. But once polish became illegal, people has started to treasure it, to the point that everyone had started to speak the common polish and polish dialect from his region. The most popular book which everyone had at their home was Kazania Sejmowe (1597) and Wujek's Bible (1599) [Vulgata's (IV century latin bible) translation corrected with Tora, Arameic scripture and Greek scripture]. Kazania Sejmowe were written in sophisticated rhetoric language using common vocabluary mixed with religious methaphors (autor was a priest). Wujek's Bible was and still is the most literal translation of the original biblical scriptures that exist. With mechanics of ancient hebrew, ancient greek and ancient arameic re-adopted into polish language in order of the most literal translation. Already back then those mechanics were archaic as fuck, yet today we use them in everyday speech.
Both books written with a writing system from 1530 year are the fundation of that what we call today the polish language.
Polish was banned around 1790', and XVIII century polish was much more different from XVI version, cucked as hell by latin and french, yet XVI polish is easier to understand than XVIII one.

Yeah but imagine if half the Polish population was killed by famine, and Germans and Russians made up about half the population all across your territory.

Really? That's dissapointing. We were getting germanized and russified for over a century, but it only made us more autistic about speaking our own language.

With Irish people it became more about protecting the Catholic identity

Too many lost generations. Do any Irish posters have any relatives fluent? How about any as first language?

Not to go all muh heritage but my Irish grandmother couldn't besides a few words for fun and I don't think her parents who were born in the late 1890s did either.

Because the Protestants in England changed the game and attacked English colonists as "Irish" because they were Catholic. Therefore they rewrote what it meant to be "Irish" to fit their own image.

Yes.

I mean it is the population that have picked it out of their own belief, Hebrew were revived before they actually have an government ruling the land if I recalled correctly
There are too many Hakka and Min people in Singapore at the time that if Cantonese was picked, people from non-Canton group would be dissatisfied and it will result in conflicts. I believe Indonesia picked their national language for the same reason.

Well that means they did it in response to A) Material Conditions - namely "us versus them" with the Arabs and the Brits, and B) Ideological fanaticism.
In Ireland the powers-that-be said Englishness is Irishness, and killed anyone who would fight against that.

After the famine it became a matter of pragmatism. People thought it was more important for their children to learn English because it would open up a lot of job opportunities abroad. It wasn't until decades after the famine that the romantic notion of the Irish language come into play and by that point the major damage was done and would still be years more until it was allowed to be taught in schools again.

China, Japan, Taiwan have successfully endangered or even extinguished regional variants of languages in this way. I think France have completed similar task in its southern area too?

Who and where do you live

Yeah, we got that too, but it's more of a commie times thing, since they were anti-Catholic and aggressively atheist.
Fuck, we really have a lot in common.