Bro, college is a scam, just learn a trade lmao, you'll get paid a ton XD

Maybe if they'd gone to college they'd realize what an average is and know that some small number of skilled electricians and plumbers earning high wages doesn't mean going to trade school is a better return on investment than going to college

What about machinists and CnC programmers? I was thinking about taking that path.

trades are a meme
t. fell for it
while I wagecuck all day, my friends who did pharmacy school and software engineering/computer science get to enjoy cushy jobs making more money than me, plus they got to experience university life

>Im not giving my money to some stupid robot if I don't have to

fuck greedy buisness owners

I can't give an answer desu because I'm not familiar with them

Please, for the love of god, go into something else other than computer science. The job market is so over saturated with you codemonkeys and script kiddies who got into programming because you thought you'd just sit on your computer all day at home and earn $1000000 million a week just by coding apps. Then once you see the harsh reality of how shit it actually is, you have a midlife crisis about it and start asking online on how to make money off of programming. Pick a field based on your actual interest, not based on what you heard was most profitable.

What trade did you choose?

I disagree with this. The job market is not oversaturated at all here and in america. The problem is, a lot of graduates can't even code properly so when they can't pass interviews and get jobs they blame it on muh university muh no jerbs

We'll see who's going to be smug when you are out of a job.

This...

Trade is self limiting. Yh you'll get paid more in the short term but when you're 60 and back is finished you'll regret everything.

Yeah. Most people get into programming not because they actually love it, but because they heard about how comfy it is from their friends, and the idea of sitting all day at a PC sounds lovely to most people. Most people don't realise that what you miss in physical effort in programming, you'll have to make up for in mental effort. Also, programming is super popular in the middle east, a lot of people are getting into it exactly because of this, idk about Americas though.

How can something that is free be a scam?

I always regret not going into computer science. I fucked myself thoroughly going into medicine.

This isn't a humblebrag the lifestyle and pay is fucking shit here.

STOP
>:(

>I fucked myself thoroughly going into medicine
>pay is fucking shit
Sorry but how? What field of medicine are you in exactly? People who go into medicine here always get the most high paying jobs, unless you're talking about stuff like nursing, technicians etc.

At this point, what jobs are left that won't put into wageslave tier, but also doesn't require a four year degree in America? I'm fine with doing manual labor, but i hate working in the service industry. But in America, the former field is dying. Is there really no future for people like me?

>60 year old tradie is laying on a sofa and watching a handegg game
>Knees are useless and crippled
>Lower back is useless and crippled
>So are his shoulders
>Everything is shot to shit, and he has to rely on prescription pain medication just to live without constant agony
>Long hours spent doing (literally) back-breaking work means he had little time to spend with his family
>Glancing at social media, he sees a member of his high school class who is now a high level executive and looks twenty years younger than a similarly aged tradie
>The tradie gives one last, mighty shart. The act adds to the stains on his faux leather recliner.
>"It was all... worth it... Universities are a Marxist scaaaaaam."

college is a scam and the best option at the same time

The UK healthcare is known for raping doctors and being absolutely dogshit

Going to graduate with a degree in computer engineering next semester, debt-free. My Erasmus semester abroad in France was paid by the European Union. It feels good living in a functioning first world country.

Being a doctor isn't so great.

>4 years of undergrad where you have to get top grades, have to be social and shit too, have to be part of clubs/be turbo normie
>1-2 years of applying to med schools/working/doing a masters is typical after undergrad since the averageperson doesn't get into med school their first try
>4 years of med school
>2 years of residency minimum
>you're finally a doctor wow

or you could just go into comp sci/software engineering, law, finance etc. and end up making the same money with arguably less effort

how is it possible to take non-STEM trash seriously in the first place?

I read somewhere that its actually cheaper to go to germany and get a degree there (if you know german pretty well) compared to here even if you still have to pay more for everything in germany.

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>law
Stopped reading right here.

DO NOT GET INTO LAW. Every single lawyer will tell you to avoid law school.

>making the same money with arguably less effort
No, actually. Programmers, lawyers and accountants don't make anywhere near the same amount of money as doctors, that's just a meme. Also, while med school is hard yes, the amount of effort is also still required in other fields, just not in the same direct way as med school. Doctors will always be at the top of the salary hierarchy, only engineers really come close.

Trades are respectable imho

This, there is literally zero reason not to go to college.
>Muh debt
You have to be retarded to get into debt. College is not expensive especially with finacial aid and scholarships.
>muh useless degrees
Even the most liberal arts of a degree has more worth in the workforce than a useless "certification"
Only literal retards who were incapable of going to college in the first place go to trade school. In place they get to be a cripple for the rest of their life, and a near 100% garunteed fatality rate in their workplace. I cannot stress enough how important going to uni is.

idk how people get into massive debt. I went into an instate school for 10k a year, and im completing my AE degree next semester.

stop lying Jow Forums

youtube.com/watch?v=Vc4gv2X4VmM

my scope is limited to canada and canadians

family doctors make around 80-120k after taxes

my cousin who has been in software dev for 15 years now makes about 150k after taxes

doctors in general will be on top of the ladder though you're right

Agreed with the debt, and being Canadian our tuition isn't nearly as bad. It's literally less than 25% of what Americans pay, depending on the province. People who work the trades use debt as an excuse, but university here is cheap. Not as cheap as Europe, but cheap.

im a neet

I knew a guy who did CnC machine work. He made a killing but he wanted to quit so he can spend time with his kids, also he was a Jow Forumslack so he would LARP in the woods an sum shieet

It is not a scam, but it is not as wonderful as people describe it to be, also it costs a lot.

Here in Peru it is obligatory to have a college degree or you will get fucked in every aspect of your life so I don't have much of a choice than to finish it as soon as posible.

You're actually a fucking brainlet. Pretty much everything you said is false

>software dev for 15 years now
There you go. He has a literal decade of work experience, has probably worked on a ton of projects, and he has connections. That's all that matters, that's why he's making a lot. But you're not going to automatically earn more than a freshman doc just by being a freshman programmer, that just doesn't exist in real life, let's be honest and realistic with each other.

>STEM
>Not humanities

You are literally ruled by people that study the humanities.

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a freshman programmer is 22
a freshly minted doctor on average is ~28 and that's in the best case scenario (finish undergrad at 22, get accepted instantly to med school finish med school by 26, finish residency by 28), in reality most medical students are fully fledged doctors by 30

t. Salty tradie with no degree
How's that broken back doing you?

im planning living off my dads pension

I know tradesmen who make $50 an hour in Ontario, and all they did was do an apprenticeship. Just face it that college isn't necessary to have a good life.

>You are literally ruled by people that
Lolno. We are ruled by scientists.

That's a really gross oversimplification of the whole process, and all doctors get paid while they're doing their residency, so it balances out btw. But you're right, medicine is inherently more difficult than most other fields out there and require more time and study.

STEM is a meme is a meme

Im in university right now. I know plenty of people who went through respectable trade schools, and make fucking bank, as a mechanic, or technician. Tradesmen sre also in high demand where I live, so it works out well for them. You can't honestly tell me that an arts degree is more useful, than a certificate in HVAC or carpentry. Fuck outta here with that BS

doctors here get paid 50k/year for residency working insane hours

again idk how it is in your country, my scope is limited to canada, all my relatives/friends who are doctors or in med school say that they wouldn't do it again

Yeah, it seems more like a you problem, than a problem with the profession itself really, because in qatar med graduates aren't treated like this. sad for your relatives and friends desu (but keep in mind, people do sometimes make their own mistakes but don't want to admit them, so they just blame it on their profession. programmers do it too ).

I was replying in reference to you saying comp sci is oversaturated, it's not, it might be somewhat saturated with graduates, but the number of competent graduates is low

Just glorified button pushers. The more you advance in this "trade" the less time you will have for yourself. God forbid you get stuck with a company who'll give you tons of responsibilities with no pay increase. This is literally everyone who starts out.

And what makes you think medicine is saturated with competent graduates who actually choose it based on interest, and not because of some market fad or because they heard it makes the most money from their friends? Every field has its fair share of dummies, that's just the reality of it. You gotta just learn to pick your skill/profession in life based on what actually interests. Ask yourself, do you really enjoy doing this for 12 hours a day? If the answer is yes, then do it. The money will come anyway when you're skilled, employers will look for you, they're not retarded. Just have the goods first, no one is going to want to hire you if you're on the same level as everybody else. You have to stand out, and people who are passionate about their field stand out very easily. Pick based on what you love to do, not what you hear is best.

jesus christ you're braindead

Says the brain let codemonkey.

Ooh ooh ah ah nigga.

medicine and computer science are very different my dude

comp sci = 4 year degree undergrad

medicine = 4 year undergrad, 1-2 year gap, 4 year med school, 2+ year residency

someone who finishes med school will be a competent doctor regardless, someone who finished a comp sci degree isn't guaranteed to be competent at programming

do you see what I'm getting at

can't hear you over my near 6 figure salary at the tender age of 23

Ooooh oooh ahhh ahhhhhhh!!!!!!

aww, is the tradie/liberal arts/science cuck trying to communicate?

>STE part of STEM is saturated
M part is getting saturated as well. PAs and NPs are replacing general practitioners somewhat and radiology and anesthesiology are experiencing a huge increase in the number of program and the # of trainees. Also, general dentistry is being saturated. Even in medicine, only a few specialties like dermatology are free of such market saturation

>reeeeeee I make more money than doctors when I sit on my ass all day making shitty mobile apps
Okay dude, I believe you.
Yet again, you're oversimplifying it way too much. you don't need 8 years of med school, that's only if you're specialising.
>someone who finishes med school will be a competent doctor regardless
no, please fuck off with this meme. im tired of having to deal with shitty doctors everyday, having a piece of laminated paper from the london university of medicine or whatever means jackshit. you can roll it and stick it up your ass for all i care.

>Yet again, you're oversimplifying it way too much. you don't need 8 years of med school, that's only if you're specialising.
again
my scope is limited to canada, are you this deft?

to become a doctor in canada, you need an undergrad (4 years), medical school (4 years) and a minimum of two years of residency (2 years)

to become a doctor in north america you need an undergrad, medical school and then residency m8, it's a minimum 10 year commitment from 18 to 28 years of age and that's the best case scenario (since not everybody gets into med school their first try)

that's more to do with medicine in your country being more competitive though.

it's the same in america, nobody cares about shitholes like europoors or you poo in loos

I dunno, I'm about to graduate with an undergrad degree in it and there's loads of work here.

He's an absolute moron. It's as I said, no matter where you go, if you're somewhat decent at programming you'll get a job. If you're good, you'll get a great job. He's a moron for saying its oversaturated.

What if I have no marketable interests? My interests are in handcrafts and graphic design, yet I heard any degree not in STEM is a waste of time. I was thinking about going into industrial design because of that. Would taking up a trade then going to college be a bad idea? I'm the user that wanted to become a CnC machinist/programmer, but after hearing what said, I'm having doubts.

a good middle class income at the expense of ur health

Doctors are human, so they are lazy and rude.

But they are extremely competant. In the UK only the top 1% can get in. Its even more competitive in burgerland. And 99% go for the prestige.

>no, please fuck off with this meme. im tired of having to deal with shitty doctors everyday
because you pajeeto-arabs are shit tier people in general, that's on you, not medicine

eh euro doctors are top tier. America is exceptional but canada cannot compare to the UK.

canadian doctors are unironically some of the best in the world, standards of getting into medical school here are higher than the UK/america (the fact that canadians often go to ireland/america/UK for medical school because they cannot get into schools in canada is a testament to this)

Are you ?

If so, how is residency training like in the UK? I've heard medicine graduation go to foundation for 1-2 years and then go to either GP or specialty and that it is extremely hard to become a fellow. I was kinda confused when I heard of British training system

Look, I get that you're some codemonkey in Canada who's mad af for some reason, but doctors will always earn more on average than programmers.
>if you're somewhat decent at programming you'll get a job. If you're good, you'll get a great job.
That's literally what I said. Pick something you're actually good at.

I never denied that. No shit on average doctors outearn programmers or software engineers. All I said was that there are better options than medicine if your goal is money, you can make the same amount as doctors as a software engineer/programmer easily. Leave it to a pajeeto-arab to chimp out though.

Now you're just moving goalposts, but eitherway you're right yeah, you could open your own private business or get into engineering.

Regardless, through several points in our conversation you've been wrong.

Pro tip, at least a semester or 2 worth of machining/manufacturing classes is all you need to be a competent industrial designer. Any longer than that and you'll just be wasting time. Get a book on GDNT standards, get a machining textbook too, buy the machinist handbook 30 edition. That's it. You are welcome.

5 year undergraduate or 4 year post graduate. Followed by 2 year foundation training. Then specialisation training, you choose specialty (bit like residency). 8 years post foundation you can become a consultant (the equivalent of an attending.

you can be an attending by 35 in the UK. Much faster than the US i think.

i'm doing the memest IT degree and its fucking shithouse. What degrees even get you a job, apart from about 3 they all don't seem specific.
School needs to focus you on career more fuck me. All you get told is to do what you enjoy but they don't tell you anything, just to pick subjects in grade 10 which go to wherever you want to go.
Doing an apprenticeship to become a is pretty tempting and they make more than most IT jobs anyway which i would get because i don't have much drive.

Thx for info. What specialties are preferred in the UK? I suppose it's all the same as the US? (ortho, derm, ophtho, plastic surgery......)

pretty much spot on.

>employment or education advice from internets biggest talent pool of losers and neets.
Lmfao.

For industrial design? I thought industrial design had to do with designing products and such. Will a background in machinist/manufacturing work help in that?