Do you have SWEAT pledges in your country?

god i hate americans

>yessiree mastah. I gon work hahd, and den aym gon mayk it big lahk YOU. Workin hard is how people get rich, aint no politician gon steal moneh frahm YOU!

>mfw I see a poor person

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OI BETTER SHELL OUT SOME MORE QUID FOR THE ASIAN FAMILY ACROSS THE STREET

>implying
Finns make more money on welfare than the average working American
t. different

Eat the rich

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what's exactly wrong with pic related? It's just the guys moral compass. You don't have to agree with it.

Americans will bring back primae noctis in the next ten years. Of course your boss gets to fuck your wife first, are you some kind of communist?

I know it's funny to make fun of tryhards, but I really do try my best at work... It makes it easier to negotiate a raise if the work you do is more valuable.

why are there so many communists on Jow Forums lately? are we being raided by lefty pol or something? Is there some sort of discord that are spamming these threads? What is so wrong with Private ownership and free trade exactly?

You know what makes it even easier?

Collective bargaining.

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well you could do that, but if my boss doesn't have the common decency to compensate me for my work then I'll just quit. No need to strong arm and take control of the production.

>I believe all people are created equal
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

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Peak boomer

>stop reporting people just because they had sex with a cute 15 year old virgin girl and you're just jealous
this
and this

i always believed in number 5
i dont want to end up like those retards that can't manage money, or that wreck a house they havent even finished paying

in the eyes of the cold uncarring universe, in a way I think we are equal. But obviously some people are born smarter/stronger then others. I think what he means here is that. I really don't get why the pic in OP is so hated. It's just a guy showing the words he lives by.

>No need to strong arm and take control of the production
What? I wasn't saying anything like that. It's just a fact that unions get better wages, benefits, and working conditions for their members and their whole industries than non-union members get on average.

But I mean yeah, if you wanna expropriate your bosses and seize the means of production, that works too.

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Number 5,6 and number 9 are unarguable though. The rest are just standard "make the best" and "be passionate" which aren't exactly wrong as well.

I really don't understand the hatred of this picture. When did hard work stop being a virtue? It's what our nation was built upon.

I don't think it's hated, it's just laughed and poked fun at. The point is it shows an ideal that is so much of sucking up to the rich that it's pretty funny.

>What is so wrong with Private ownership

It exploits the labour of the workers.

>free trade exactly

Nothing if it's between syndicalist co-ops

this

Unions also take 10% of your fucking wages and you are forced to join them or they will make your life miserable. Unions are just as bad as a shitty boss.

>I understand the world is not fair, and I'm OK with that

Instead of striving to make an unfair world a fairer place you should just wallow in status quo. Slave mentality. They were hard workers too u know?

How does private ownership exploits the labour of the workers? You aren't being forced to work. You are coming up with a deal with your employer, negotiation of the contract is always on the table.

because he has slave mentality

>Unions also take 10% of your fucking wages
lolwut? it's like fifteen bucks a month here

>Unions also take 10% of your fucking wages
So do something about that? The point of unions is they're run by the labourers. If you don't like their bylaws or whatever, you can start a motion and vote to change them, to lower the fees they take and what they do. You can't vote on what your company does. You take what your boss gives or you can go fuck yourself. The difference is between democracy or dictatorship in the workplace

I don't know how it works in the US but here you either take a loan to buy a place to live or you rent. 5 is impossible to argue FOR unless leeching on your parents until you are 40 is what you are aiming for.

The problem is that it's impossible to make things fair despite your socialist delusions. You have to make the best of your situation to lead a happy life.

For those of you that dont know, Mike was too lazy to hold a real job for more than 1 year so he wrote motivational books about working hard and then became an actor

>You aren't being forced to work.

Well living in a welfare state no, I'm not. But that is quickly changing over here so in future if I want to live yeah I'm kinda forced to work.

>You are coming up with a deal with your employer, negotiation of the contract is always on the table.

I want more rights and pay and the bossman laughs and hires some more desperate third world immigrant. That's how it goes and don't pretend otherwise.

taking a loan and having debt you can't pay are 2 different things I assume. The point was to not live outside your wages and have a sense of your finances.

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>How does private ownership exploits the labour of the workers?
Because it takes steals the value produced by the workers and only gives them a portion as wages. The rest go on to the company owners, for doing nothing but having paper ownership of the means of production, like tribute to a mob boss.

>You aren't being forced to work
Oh no, ofc not. You totally have a choice. You can either work for a capitalist and have the value you create through your labour be stolen, or you can not work for a capitalist and starve.

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Umm excuse me he was reaping in opportunities and experiences ok and for your information writing is very hard work I bet he sweat once or twice in summer.

That makes sense

so why not join union if it improves your personal situation? Isn't that "makin the best of your situation"?

The value you produce is exactly the same as what someone is willing to pay for it.

There used to be real unions in the US too lest we forget youtube.com/watch?v=Ly5ZKjjxMNM

youtube.com/watch?v=2j3ZNUxqo9M
Open up, time to swallow the Boss' load!

I don't think you understand. Work is a contract between an employer and a worker. You don't need unions to negotiate your contract, this isn't the middle ages you aren't forced to work for your employer. My problem with unions and seizing production (which a union essentially is) is that you don't own the production. You are contracted by this man to do something for something in return.

cringe

>t. antebellum southerners to complaining slaves

>for doing nothing but having paper ownership of the means of production
the boss also takes great personal risks. If he makes bad decisions, he will go bankrupt and lose his means of production. You as a worker risk nothing, you always get your paycheck.
It is only natural that the boss gets a fair share of your work-value, otherwise he would have no incentive to risk his property

Cause overall I don't think it improves the situation. You can negotiate the contract just fine, no need to be sucked into the borg to negotiate something with employers. And don't say you can just vote on it, if you are the only one having a problem with a single policy then you're fucked.

I disagree. The value of a good is determined by how much labour was used in it's construction. Or in a broader market perspective, it's determined by the socially necesary labour time that the good requires.

but as a simple worker you have a very weak negotiation position, and the employer can exploit your weakness.

He’s the epithome of working smart rather than hard yet he’s telling people to take the shittiest jobs for minimum wage.
If he did that himself he’d be nowhere near his levels of succes

>socially necessary labour time
in other words its market value. lol
marxists are so funny

How is my labour being stolen hypothetically? If I agree to work for someone with certain conditions and these conditions are met, is my labour being stolen?

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then you probably have a good job and you are not easy to replace.
Minimal wage workers have no room for negotiation at all, they can be replaced any time

I’m not going through the entire marxist theory but the idea is that your boss makes money off of ownership which creates a gap between you and him. A worker can never become an owner by simply working for his owner

You would be surprised. Have you negotiated a contract before? If you work in a high skill field then it's easy, employers don't want to lose you and will pretty much pay anything to keep you. It's the same for jobs that noone wants to work, like being a sewer worker.

I'm a conservative but that doesn't make the image not laughable

>high skilled
That’s the problem here. High skilled people can make their own arrangements. Most are self employed and do their own pensions and prices.

However you will find a grand chunk(over 50%) of the workforce cannot do this. Either because they are too dumb or because their line of work is full of other eager workers so any demand will be met with getting fired.

>You don't need unions to negotiate your contract
Sure, in the sense that you can get a job without unions. I mean it would probably be easier without them, if your only objective is to get A job. But unions, like labour laws, help quite a bit in how fair a deal you can get, and how good the contract will be for the worker.

>You can negotiate the contract just fine
Not really though. If you're just negotiating for yourself then you have no leverage and a very weak negotiating position. Whereas if you are negotiating in a union, along with many other workers, you have a far greater chance of reaching a good agreement and not just getting short shrifted and passed over for someone more desperate who'll take a worse deal.

Wouldn't it be better for the bossman then to share the risks? Like in some kind of cop-op? How come owners of capital aren't ready to do so if it's just a risk sharing game?

yes, some employees have a strong negotiation position.
But those who work minimum wage jobs, don't. If they try to negotiate, employer will simply fire them and pick somebody else

But he can become an owner on his own. I don't think you get the idea of work here.

Because you agreed at gunpoint, forced by the system to take some job, with the same set up, or not starve. The fact that you agreed to it and signed a contract does not change the matter, because it was no real choice. You were always going to become a wage labourer for someone.

If the worker wants, he can easily put a mortgage on his house and invest the money into the company. Then he will get a share of the profit, in exchange for the risk of becoming homeless

>get the idea of work
I am employed and the place I work at cost €2 billion to make. I can’t just become an owner.

The problem is that it’s becoming increasingly harder to buy your way into the owning class.
Look at the real estate market. In my city there are 5 men that together own about 900 houses. They use the 400% profit margin on rent to buy a new house every week to expand their empire. And they never sell them again.

in theory yes, but as things stand today that's practically impossible

He might not want to share it and that's perfectly fine. Not everyone is at liberty to give shit away.

>he can easily put a mortgage on his house

lmao yeah I'll just mortage my hou- oh wait I DON'T OWN ANY PROPERTY

then go to work and accumulate capital until you can buy a house

he's right you know

>accumulate capital
After paying 50% of your income as rent to buy a house on a market with heavy speculation going on

Yeah I'll just accumulate capital in a minimun wage job, wait I'll negotiate with the bossman for a better pa- he just fired me and hired some third world immigrant to do my job what now?

You make it sound like there are some people that own nothing. Everyone owns something, as for getting into the upper class, it's easier then ever to move up socially. With the access to internet, access to good education is one click away.

Also side note it's not like there is a finite resource of houses. You can learn to build houses and make a business out of that. Those people make a lot of good money.

Based communist finn

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>With the access to internet, access to good education is one click away.

You're not the only one with access to this. All it's done is flood higher education and made it psuedo mandatory, and so the range of jobs which are oversaturated increased.

not everyone can access higher education, that requires that you set aside full time work for several years and, in America's case, requires a substantial up front payment that lots of people can't afford
I'm not saying that social mobility is impossible, my mum grew up as a poor as fuck irish farm girl and now we're very well off, but it is difficult and is getting increasingly so compared to the mid to late 20th century

>Also side note it's not like there is a finite resource of houses. You can learn to build houses and make a business out of that. Those people make a lot of good money.
First you need land with building permission. In the case of America I happen to know NIMBYs block the shit out of this.
Then you need the materials and workers.

So probably you need a small loan of $1.500.000 before you can get started

savings accounts, investing, and education is all I have to say to that. even if you work a 30,000 dollar a year job it's still possible to have a good financial plan. The problem is that no one knows how to save properly anymore. For me, I just took out 10% of my weakly check and planned around living off the other 90%. I rented a room out of someones house for cheap living and I started to do some day trading. I'm not exactly rich right now but I'm definitely seeing some improvements.

yeah this is another one of the big problems we have right now
my uncle went straight out of school and into the tax office at 17. that same job he had now demands an accounting or finance degree.

so you reckon you could, say, open up a car manufacturing plant and compete with Ford?
everything is too specialised and too expensive, while economies of scope and scale make it almost impossible for a worker to become an owner

So

You live on your own in 1 room with no children and you expect that normal people can have the same financial luxury

Even at minimum wage job, you can put at least 100€ each month aside and invest it in stock market. If you make good decisions, your stocks will increase over time

Remind me lad, what happened last time everyone invested in the stock market?

if you invest money, you take risks. An employer also takes risks when he invests his own money into company. That is the reason why he gets a bigger share than the workers who take no risk at all

literally everyone in Australia has been indirectly investing in the stock market for 30 odd years and we've gone the longest period without a financial crisis in modern history

Not in texas, If you own land you can build without a permit.
Accumulating capital isn't as hard as you make it seem when you play the long game. Put like 10% of your next check aside and put it in a savings account, study up at the stock market, buy some stocks and own shit(I know you believe you have to be a multimillionaire to own stuff but even poor people can do this). Repeat this cycle and you are accumulating wealth. Also invest in assets, Stuff like gold, vending machines. Stuff you can own yourself that accumulates cash. When you first start off you won't have much but accumulating cash is exponential.

>perfection is impossible, so lets not do anything about it

man I love not being an american

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see you don't understand that putting 10% away might let you buy a house or some shit, but it will never let you move into a higher class

>invest it in stock market. If you make good decisions, your stocks will increase over time

Yeah I'll just invest in NOKIA this co-operation with Microsoft spells m-o-n-e-y wait what's happening it was all a set up and now I'm penniless prööööööööööööööööööööööött. Yeah there are always winners and losers in stock market. Expecting it to be some great equalizer and a way for social mobility is not sensible politics.

Everyone starts off with no children. If you start having kids before you can afford them then that's your problem.

While writing this out as some kind of contract is a bit cringe, numbers 3, 4, 5, 6, 9 and 10 are all very reasonable and true.

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