What went well?

Thanks to a mysterious country that dumps money into fringe political parties, poisons EU citizens, and hacks voter databases

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Good

>poisons EU citizens
BREXIT MEANS BREXIT

>hacks voter databases
There is quite literally no evidence of this happening.

When people say "Russia hacked the election", they don't actually mean computer hacking (they just phrase it that way because they're intellectually dishonest and know that phrasing it like that will get more attention), rather they mean "hacked" in the abstract sense of of influencing the election in an illegitimate way, e.g. funding certain candidates illegally.

Coming from the country of CIA, the same that supports orange revolutions.

desu all your country does is destabilize and cause wars and conflict
nice foreign policy

Nothing

Assburg Empire experience

That would be your troops on German soil and threat of Russian troops trying to be there too

Article 50 hasn't been executed yet gook-chan

How can you be this uninformed and still think your opinion weighs anything?

washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/01/10/everything-we-know-so-far-about-russian-election-meddling-in-europe/

ft.com/content/4fb3ae34-0b98-11e8-839d-41ca06376bf2

usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/07/alleged-russian-political-meddling-documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/

engadget.com/2018/02/07/russians-successfully-gained-access-to-us-voter-registration-rec/

vox.com/2018/2/27/17060132/intelligence-russia-hacking-us-elections

nbcnews.com/politics/elections/russians-penetrated-u-s-voter-systems-says-top-u-s-n845721

I'm not going to defend American actions during the Cold War, because the only way to fight back against dirty moves is to use dirty moves. Now that Russia is starting this shit up again, we may have to resort to underhandedness again. I hope you're ready for our government to pull out the dusty "Finlandization" term again

>And you're lynching negroes too

Consumer protection.

It was nice until 2004

>That would be your troops on German soil and threat of Russian troops trying to be there too
Note how Russians have threatened Europe from 1945-1990 and there wasn't a war? Half a century of peace is pretty impressive given Europe's propensity for bloodshed from 400-1945. Even the textbook example of balance of power, the Concert of Europe, only lasted 30 years max.

It isn't just the Soviets/Russians. Latin America, Middle East, south east Asia. Today's Russia has more bark than bite. China is your main opponent.

It's literally just butthurt officials alleging shit without providing any evidence.

Keep in mind that the MSM literally published a story about Trump being pissed on by Russian prostitutes just because a dumb Jow Forumsack told them so.

>free travel, free trade common regulations and standards
These but common currency in many areas
This just benefits Germany

Any facts?

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>China is your main opponent.
You're not wrong, but we need a competent leader to deal with Chinese meritocrats. If I could abduct Macron and push him into the American presidency, I would.

Of course countries will act in their own self-interest ffs, what did you expect?

At least EU enforces very beneficial cooperation in many fields like trade, environmental protection, science.

sincerely hope the EU militarizes and gets stronger to act as a check against the US. stop enabling our military to do whatever the fuck it wants eurodumbs

Sure. But EU claiming that as some great success of theirs is stupid.

Brexit.

I never said it was weird that they acted in their own self-interest. But it's still a problem and it's created many weaknesses and incoherences in the EU, especially regarding foreign policy.

>At least EU enforces very beneficial cooperation in many fields like trade, environmental protection, science.
Absolutely, I'm especially appreciative of the latter two. Those are the things that went right, I was just pointing out the things that went wrong (as I thought this was the original question).

>environmental protection
Environmental protection is a lost cause unless
>a.) It's global
>b.) It's backed up with the force of a credible military
until then, countries like China and Bangladesh are going to laugh at you as they pollute with their industry

Those are known knowns. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
t. "free"world`s logic understander

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I fucking hate Poles.

>Sure. But EU claiming that as some great success of theirs is stupid.
Not at all, the EU was born from the European Coal and Steel Commission which was the primary anti-chimpout tool to stop France and Germany from pissing themselves to death with revanchism

NATO of course was what kept Russia out, but I don't think NATO would have been able to organize without French and German stability. After all, West Germany was the borderland.

Unless research manages to produce solutions that are economically advantageous. The best example would be the freefalling price of PV solar panels.

The same is happening in China to some extent. The environmental degradation which they've suffered has gotten so bad that they literally do not have any choice but to look for solutions. It would economically very dangerous for them in the long term to just ignore the problem. That's why, in the last few years, China has become a leader in green technologies. Also, it's worth pointing out that, per capita, the US is still a MUCH bigger polluter than China.

>Russians have threatened Europe from 1945-1990
Just right now thought about this. Was that a threat? Lol. What's why Europe hates slavs?

I love how eternally asshurt USA, Russia and shithole "europeans" are about EU.

Not all of us are gullible russophobes.

Of course you do, they work without going on strike every few weeks.

>primary anti-chimpout tool
Again, that was the threat of Russians, not the EU precursors. Oh, and gibs from the USA.

EU is done. UK is out, Italy next, then Greece.

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Greece is already more aligned with China than with the EU, and it's entirely the Germans' fault.

reuters.com/article/us-eu-un-rights/greece-blocks-eu-statement-on-china-human-rights-at-u-n-idUSKBN1990FP
washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/5/chinas-investment-greece-tangles-europe-relations/
washingtontimes.com/news/2018/apr/3/greece-welcomes-chinas-investment-port/

It wouldn't be surprising if Cyprus ended up doing the same thing.

Great!

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I love the EU but I'm seriously concerned our government doesn't like it and might be planning how to leave the union

>The environmental degradation which they've suffered has gotten so bad that they literally do not have any choice but to look for solutions.
Their biggest environmental challenge is polluted water tables, not carbon emission

>Also, it's worth pointing out that, per capita, the US is still a MUCH bigger polluter than China.
Yes, but per capita is not very valid when we're looking at top-down solutions. One government controls all of China (except Taiwan kek), one government controls India, one government controls the USA, and each of those set rules for the entire country to follow. Ergo if China is the largest gross polluter, action by the CCP can remove much more pollution total from the earth than India or the USA. I would say USA is #3 in terms of having an actionable government with immediate solutions.

The USA spammed Europe with diplomats TO CREATE the EU in the 1940s. Monnet was literally an American-informed shill and Schuman was not far behind. I don't understand why you think we're not invested in the EU's success.

telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/27/the-european-union-always-was-a-cia-project-as-brexiteers-discov/

jstor.org/stable/2640188?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

>Europe unites
>Britian and Russia try to destroy it
Like clockwork

Sounds too good to be true tbqh onii-senpai.

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>I love the EU
Why?

Good!

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Military alliance and free trade are would be enough.

Stop posting your patsy. You are the root of all modern evil.

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>no borders
>international trade
>eu funds
>freedom of movement
>lower corruption
>people start to realize Europe is not only Western Europe

There are some minor flaws indeed but the EU as a whole has been mostly positive for us.

I know dismantling the EU is the wet dream of Russia, I hope it will never come true

What?

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comfy

>your government spends tens of thousands of dollars on Facebook ads aimed to disrupt and divide political support for all, except Trump
>"What?"
go OD on krokodil you piece of shit human being.

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Peace, prosperity, cooperation, individual liberties.
In fact things went so well that there are people unironically clamoring for them to deteriorate into how they were during communism

If your political system is so weak that some facebook ads can disrupt the entire democratic process, then the problem is with you, not with whoever funded the ads.

Also, even if thise entire conspiracy theory were indeed true, it would only show that the CIA is incredibly useless and completely unable to do anything at all. If I were you, I'd start by wondering why the fuck my tax dollars still go towards that agency.

I'm not getting into disputing those (mainly the lower corruption part is wonky) but what good did the EU do for you, personally? What reason do you have to "love" a supranational body made of largely unelected officials?

Shouldn't it be Facebook responsibility stuff like that couldn't happen? I don't know why you're bitching about Russia about it. It was your own platform

>If your political system is so weak that some facebook ads can disrupt the entire democratic process,
>If propaganda can undermine democracy, that speaks more of democracy than blahblahblah

No that speaks more about propaganda.

>but what good did the EU do for you, personally?

I live in a neighborhood that was renovated for EU money, my job was also partially created with EU money, I got a lot of scholarships funded by the EU, infrastructure is getting better, I could visit some western countries without any problems, not even getting stuck at the border etc.

>It was your own platform
Facebook is a MNC that is beholden to no one, just like Google and Amazon. MNCs are willing to dodge taxes and stab their "home" countries in the back for a dollar of profit.

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Sums up the EU. Meanwhile we cut the budget get denbts so you can have those things which you never paid for

Except it's your own corporatist bootlicker lawmakers who make it possible for facebook to operate without any oversight whatsoever. And don't try to blame it all on Republicans either, Democrats are also guilty for the most part.

The flaw is on your own end. It's not like getting a fucking facebook ad is an extensive top secret intelligence operation. Any idiot with enough money can do it.

>a corporation that operates all around the world has a home country
Why exactly should they be loyal to the country where they started out?

Ah, so you are basically paid to like the EU.

>Ah, so you are basically paid to like the EU.

Yeah, I like the EU mostly for money, because that's what we joined it for, also for freedom of movement. Not for that bullshit like "sharing European values" ofc.

Finland was also heavily supported by other countries for most of the 20th century, so don't complain.

freedom to travel, study and work abroad
municipal revitalisation projects I personally benefit from
no tariffs on imported european wares
cheaper phone calls
general wealth increase across the board thanks to our companies having unimpeded access to eu market
european directives and transparency standards forcing our legislature to close legal loopholes deliberately opened by corrupt post-soviet politicians (pity that one came too late after transformation, otherwise I wouldn't be fucked over with thousands of other minor stockholders by people who are today presented as "entrepreneur of the year" and shit)

And when they take those gibs away?

>where they started out?
"Started out," as in used our roads, used our education system to produce workers, used our talent, used our everything, then they dodge taxes and undermine our foreign policy. Sounds great!

This sounds like an elaborate version of "she was wearing a skimpy dress, no wonder she got raped." I'm beginning to think you're not Canadian since you're going so far to defend Russian meddling in other countries' elections. How would you feel if we put a bullet in Putin's head and gave Navalny's campaign hundreds of thousands of dollars earlier this year?

>Finland was also heavily supported by other countries for most of the 20th century
No we weren't. We got nothing. no Marshall no soviet aid like you did. We had to pay war reparations for the soviets until 1960s

>muh Russia collusion
>sixtillions of dollars on Facebook

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>Why exactly should they be loyal to the country where they started out?
Because they were only able to start out thanks to legal environment and physical and social infrastructure of that country.

Finland was one of very few capitalist countries that were allowed to trade with commie countries, you had access to ~300 million market you could sell your goods at and the other way around - you got extremely cheap, yet still reliable Soviet stuff, cars, machines, natural resources for little money. That's a big privilege and economists agree it was one of the main reasons why Finland became so rich (and why it got hit by a big crisis at the beginning of the 1990s when the eastern bloc collapsed).

what do you mean?

As it shouhd be.

Nice deflection. You completely failed to adress my point. US lawmakers allow total impunity for all corporations because of the wagecuck corporatist culture which rules America. Corporations then proceed to allow anybody and everybody to put whatever ads they want, and even steal the data of the users, because they know very well that lawmakers will never do anything whatsoever to oppose them. Some foreign nationals then proceed to put ads which allegedly cause some candidate to win (and I insist on the word "allegedly" here, seeing as there's no solid proof whatsoever). And your natural reaction is to blame everything on the ones who paid for the ads?

If American democracy were half decent, you'd actually regulate companies like Facebook. But, collectively, Americans choose not to, and so it's entirely your own fault. If Canada decided to remove all regulations on TV and radio tomorrow morning, I certainly would blame the government of Canada for any ensuing abuses. I wouldn't blame the people who take advantage of something as trivial as fucking adspace.

>muh Russia collusion
washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/05/19/trumps-increasingly-tortured-claims-about-muellers-russia-probe/

reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-memo/mueller-outlines-scope-of-russia-probe-in-court-filing-idUSKCN1II2EN

chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-secret-fbi-source-trump-campaign-20180518-story.html

>sixtillions of dollars on Facebook
nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/politics/russia-2016-election-facebook.html

usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/11/what-we-found-facebook-ads-russians-accused-election-meddling/602319002/

money.cnn.com/2018/05/10/technology/russian-facebook-ads-targeted-mexican-americans/index.html

The more you undermine the EU and the USA with propaganda, hacking, and meddling, the sooner your entire economy will collapse due to sanctions. I hope you have enough vodka to drink yourself to death, because you were too much of a pussy to stop your country from descending to autocracy under Putin in the 2000s. I hope you're happy with yourself and your country's actions, because the 2020s are going to be even rougher than under Yeltsin.

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all this shit, if you want to travel to other countries get a fucking VISA, it happened before europe union and everybody was happy back then

Yes you're right about that. But what I find annoying about Poland that they want all the perks but doesnt want to contribute. As a tax payer that annoys me. But I can see Polish pov, why not get all the money as long as its possible

Either because eventually Germans get sick of sending money eastward or because lazy southerners will get poorer than us or because we won't take rapefugees

For which they paid taxes while they were still in that country. They also employed the people in that country and supplied their services to the consumers in that country. The idea that they owe allegiance to that country forever is preposterous.

Could've all been achieved with a free trade area without a bunch of imperial has-beens trying to get back into the game again.

>And your natural reaction is to blame everything on the ones who paid for the ads?
Yes, because I'm not a fucktard who blames the flyer manufacturer of a propagandist who puts flyers on walls, or the airplane engine manufacturer who helped make a plane that dropped propaganda leaflets on an enemy during wartime.

The propagandist is always at blame.

> If Canada decided to remove all regulations on TV and radio tomorrow morning, I certainly would blame the government of Canada for any ensuing abuses. I wouldn't blame the people who take advantage of something as trivial as fucking adspace.

Canada is an irrelevant country in the tech industry. You don't have any data regulations for social media because you don't have any companies in the sector, because you are hilariously hopeless at attracting talent. At least Europe has GDPR, which hopefully the USA will adopt soon so we have a common front against Russian scum in the 21st century.

>For which they paid taxes while they were still in that country.
They still are. Their headquarters. Plus all of their CEOs, CTOs, and upper management magically have American citizenship. Funny how that works?
>The idea that they owe allegiance to that country forever is preposterous.
Then you don't believe in taxes, which means you may as well move to Somalia and live your libertarian dream there with black chimps and AK47s.

EU doesn't have any tools to deal with foreign policy, don't blame the EU it has been designed like that, blame the national states.

Nope. EU enjoys decent environment.

>Could've all been achieved with a free trade area
1. only subset of the economic part
2. retards who don't know how it works would still bitch and whine because "free trade areas" are also pretty complex contracts, see trump's bitching about NAFTA
>without a bunch of imperial has-beens trying to get back into the game again.
that's retarded fantasy and narrative euro "sceptics" keep pushing because "evil empire, about us without us, occupation, domination, hurr durr" sells well at the ignorant market.
On that note I will never not be salty at demagogues devaluing perfectly good words that used to have an actual meaning, like "scepticism" or "realism", but especially the former.

>But what I find annoying about Poland that they want all the perks but doesnt want to contribute.

What do you mean "doesn't want to contribute"? We do send you our cheap labor force, you set up your factories in Poland, you can compete in public tenders here without any limits etc. Hell, we even pay money to the EU budget, just we receive more than we pay, because we're poorer. I'm sure it works the same way within Finland, richer regions pay for the poorer ones.

The only thing we don't want to do is to let all kinds of African and Middle Eastern refugees and immigrants come here. Does it really mean that we don't want to contribute anything at all? We don't have to agree with every measure the EU takes, especially if we proposed more rational solutions (like supporting the countries the refugees come from so they wouldn't have to leave them).

>because eventually Germans get sick of sending money eastward

Maybe, but it hasn't happened yet so I don't see any reason to complain now.

When the EU stops being useful for us, we will leave it, just like everyone would do.

Comparing a plane manufacturer to Facebook not having any regulation whatsoever (and even allowing third parties to steal users' data) is a false equivalency.

>Canada is an irrelevant country in the tech industry.
Again with the deflections. I specifically talked about radio and TV. If Canada were to remove radio and TV regulations (as well as regulations regarding how political parties fund their campaigns), it would be our own fault is China or Russia or the US took advantage of this, seeing as they would literally just be doing exactly what we're allowing them to do.

Bottom line is that buying facebook ad space isn't illegal. It's not even unethical. What IS unethical is being such a corporatist wagecuck society that you allow Facebook to act like fucking emperors and do absolutely nothing to protect the interests of the average American citizen, all of which has nothing to do with Russia and everything to do with your own lawmakers and your own electorate.

>2. retards who don't know how it works would still bitch and whine because "free trade areas" are also pretty complex contracts, see trump's bitching about NAFTA

Pretty much this, you couldn't keep the trade really free without the European courts and European bureaucracy that control the states and their economic policy. People may laugh at how the EU defines what the shape of bananas should look like, but in fact it's very important so international trade within the EU could be really free and governments couldn't impose any measures to protect their national industry.

Don't know about other countries, but we (companies) invest more abroad than here. Including Poland. We're a small country so our influence isn't as noticble as German investments etc.
>I'm sure it works the same way within Finland, richer regions pay for the poorer ones.
That's the thing. I want my taxes to stay in Finland and improve it. Not Poland. I think you understand our pov as well who are the net contributors to EU
And we don't need "cheap labor" we have a lot of our own unemployed

Why on Earth would you believe in taxes? It's basically a tool to buy voters in the next election.

Well atleast you're not a dumb whore, I'll give you that

>sells well at the ignorant market
Maybe it sells well because it's pretty close to the truth. Whom are the EU officials beholden to? What "people" can make sure they don't get elected when they make some ginormous mistake like the Euro?

>governments couldn't impose any measures to protect their national industry
The only difference is that now this happens at EU level instead of national level.

>Maybe it sells well because it's pretty close to the truth. Whom are the EU officials beholden to? What "people" can make sure they don't get elected when they make some ginormous mistake like the Euro?
to the people of Europe of course. EU is democratic. This "unelected" bullshit is another disingenuous meme pushed by the malicious towards the ignorant.
You don't "elect" your own ministers either, just parties that do, yet you won't call your government "undemocratic" or whine about how it's not "directly elected"

>Don't know about other countries, but we (companies) invest more abroad than here. Including Poland. We're a small country so our influence isn't as noticble as German investments etc.

That's what I said - you can invest here without any limits, so that's our contribution - we let you buy out our industry and use our cheap labor for your own profits. You can't do the same in let's say China or even Russia, where most of industry is owned by local oligarchs.

>I want my taxes to stay in Finland and improve it. Not Poland.

I see, but you need a broader view. When Poles become richer, they can buy more Finnish goods and the Finnish economy gains from it as well. Also, we provide you our services (cheap labor), you give us your services and goods, that's fair trade.

>And we don't need "cheap labor" we have a lot of our own unemployed

It's a myth. Eastern European workers have better price:efficiency ratio than Finns, that's why they're hired. Your unemployed people won't give you the same quality we give you. Just like people still want to buy goods made in Finland, not made in China.

Anyway, if you make Eastern Europe richer, you won't face any danger from that place, because richer people are not that desperate. That's why we should also support African and Middle Eastern countries instead of taking all their people in.

>The only difference is that now this happens at EU level instead of national level.

Yes, but it's better for us since the EU can be now a global economic competitor, also the EU produces quality goods and a big variety of them so protective measures the EU imposes for let's say - Chinese steel don't really affect your life as much as the measures commie countries imposed (because commies couldn't really replace western goods with their "socialist" counterparts - the same happens in Russia now).

>That's why we should also support African and Middle Eastern countries instead of taking all their people in.
That I can agree. And the development aid the worst you can do for those countries. Since EU aid is cheaper than their own products

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>people of Europe
Except there is no such thing save for humanities students and EU employees maybe. For the most part, EU is unsupervised because it doesn't really represent anyone. Sure, once in a while somebody raises a stink about some EU regulation but it dies way too quickly. Also, only European parliament is elected, the rest is nominated.

>Germany can now be a global economic competitor
Fixd

>Germany can now be a global economic competitor

Yeah, but we also gain profits from it thanks to trickle-down economics.

Thankfully, we have countries like Ukraine or Serbia we can compare ourselves to if we want to ask the question - what would all of Eastern Europe look like if there was no EU.

>what would all of Eastern Europe look like if there was no EU
Germans started buying EE property long before we got in. So we wouldn't be as poor as Ukraine and Serbia anyway. As for the profits, well, you oughta start thinking about keeping more of those in.

>Germans started buying EE property long before we got in.

Because we clearly said we wanted to join the EU - unlike Ukraine or Serbia, so our political and economic environment were stable and it attracted investments.

The flag i guess. It looks cool.