Ancap edition
/éire/
Robert Hall
Other urls found in this thread:
thejournal.ie
irishtimes.com
irishtimes.com
twitter.com
David White
first for Lough Foyle is in UK territory
Landon Wright
THE BABY
Noah Wood
gonna laugh at the incel tears when progress wins
Ian Myers
Not sure if I regret posting this image a few days ago now or not.
>Ancap
Why?
Andrew Campbell
I'd be extremely surprised if English is not your first language.
So you must be slow not to understand that, or new to this whole Jow Forums thing.
So you're saying the child DOES have rights.
But does that not include the right to life?
How do you calculate at what point of the pregnancy does a few weeks more become worth less than the life of a fetus, who will live as human and as alive a life as any other living human?
Why does it become okay to enforce the right to life at 12 weeks, but not at 11 weeks and one day? What fundamentally changes? It would seem to me to be nothing, and so that decision seems to be purely arbitrary, rather than based on any abstract principle of rights.
Why are 28 weeks of pregnancy judged to be an acceptable imposition on a woman, but not any more than that? Do women have a right to not have more time demanded of them by their unborn children than 28 weeks, that somehow outweighs the right of the child to the entirety of their life?
Strictly worded too, by what you said it would seem to logically follow that women have the right to expel their child from their womb so long as it lives, even though being born premature would lead to reduced quality of life and even disability. Is that worth a few weeks of a woman's time?
Isaac Price
Progress yourself into the grave, why don't you
Jaxon Collins
if I would like to do a road trip around ireland anything I should be afraid of if I'm gonna be driving a car on NI/GB plates? Or is it only here in NI that we have idiots that are bothered by such things?
Robert Parker
Bríd's truck never came back around, honestly a bit dejected lads I improvised a little club from my dumbell to shatter her side view mirror
Jordan Hill
All that will happen is that secondary school students will use it as an opportunity to punch eachother.
Jordan Scott
Why are "progressives" so arrogant and self-righteous?
>pic
Unnerving.
Ryan Long
Nobody has any issue with nordies, you'll be welcomed
Parker Lee
>with nordies
To make it more complicated im a pole and my car has oxford plates. Still ok?
Jose Sullivan
BREAKING: Irish Times #Referendum2018 exit poll projects landslide vote to repeal Eighth Amendment
Wyatt Butler
>Irish people approve of baby murder more than gay marriage
bit confusing
Cameron Rogers
Yes won by 68%
thejournal.ie
Sebastian Gonzalez
On a slighlty different note, I decided to reinstall my OS again.
Having trouble getting my Windows VM to correctly boot now though. I chose a bad night to do this.
>Why are "progressives" so arrogant and self-righteous?
Don't people on the right morally look down at the degenerates on the left and their promiscuity and so forth?
Lying is a no no.
Elijah Gray
>It's actually real
irishtimes.com
Fuck me, this seems a bit off but if true then we're more fucked than I thought.
Wyatt Jenkins
>Lying is a no no.
I would do no such thing
Blake Thomas
Apologise.
Sebastian Morales
>tfw sittin in NI
>the last place on these isles where murdering is still illegal and we haven't been injected with gay yet
stressed a bit desu
Justin Diaz
>Munster will also break 66-34 in favour of repeal.
Aiden Long
I just hope my county voted No so I can hold my head up and look at my fellow parishioners with respect.
Doesn't look like that is going to happen though, shall see.
John Barnes
>Don't people on the right morally look down at the degenerates on the left and their promiscuity and so forth?
Yes, which is why the Left's arrogance and self-righteous is so misplaced (at least from a right-wing perspective).
Zachary Green
Is this a man or a woman?
Luis Hill
kill me Ollie
Levi Murphy
Don't know, don't want to know.
Jack Rogers
Well lads, we fought a good fight. I guess Ireland prioritises promiscuity over the life of the unborn.
Joshua Jones
How reliable are these exit polls? They say they interviewed people as they left but wouldn't it be fair to say that yes voters were a lot more public with their vote?
Hudson Williams
Just heading to the rope merchant lads. Before I neck myself any repealers want some rope to kill their offspring with?
Carson Harris
>So you're saying the child DOES have rights.
I've never been the sort to deny it myself.
>But does that not include the right to life?
It does but not at the expense of the mother's own rights.
>How do you calculate at what point of the pregnancy does a few weeks more become worth less than the life of a fetus,
It's simple, if the foetus is not currently viable outside the womb the mother still shouldn't be forced to carry it until it will be. If she wants it out her decision is all that matters.
Once it is viable then it's right to live gains equal status and as such it must be removed non-lethally, except for in the edge cases I mentioned.
As for when the transition happens I'll leave it up to doctor's to figure it out and trust their judgement.
>who will live as human and as alive a life as any other living human?
I find this irrelevant bar cases where their life will be measured in mere minutes, hours, days, or weeks due to fatal abnormalities. The potential length of their live is only relevant if it is notably short, in which case their rights are devalued in favour of the mother's in cases outlined above.
>Why does it become okay to enforce the right to life at 12 weeks, but not at 11 weeks and one day?
Based on medical evidence I believe both should be okay so this is moot.
>What fundamentally changes?
The possibility of the foetus surviving, if using the model I support.
>It would seem to me to be nothing, and so that decision seems to be purely arbitrary, rather than based on any abstract principle of rights.
In the 12 week limit scenario? Yes, it's an arbitrary restriction based on "feelings" rather than medical evidence and weighing the rights of both individuals against the other's.
John Campbell
Why bother engaging in the political process anymore when "progressives" have society under a tight leash?
Ryan Taylor
1-1.5% margin of error, very accurate. There's another one in an hour which will fully confirm.
Dominic Hughes
Maybe /éire/pol/ was right all along.
Hudson Moore
when the margins are this large they have never been wrong afaik. Maybe by a few points but never by the total result.
Aiden Walker
>It does but not at the expense of the mother's own rights.
Why would life be worth less than the convenience of the mother? If you are saying the right to life is something that can be outweighed by anything but the moral wrongdoing of the person whose life is being taken away, that is murder.
OY VEY! That's a question they don't want us asking!
Nathan Diaz
>How reliable are these exit polls?
Even if they aren't reliable, I hardly doubt they would be out by like 20 points.
>when "progressives" have society under a tight leash
It's called democracy desu. Nothing stopping you going outside and campaigning for something you firmly believe in too.
I'm sure the No campaign would've welcomed someone who was at retirement age or a religious nutter to give them a better image.
Ayden Taylor
>a piece of paper can outweigh billions of dollars and decades if not centuries of social engineering
Jonathan Campbell
Gonna get a good shag tonight lads :)
Leo Wood
>Nothing stopping you going outside and campaigning for something you firmly believe in too.
What's the point? As I said, the "progressives" are in firm control. The No campaign was doomed from the start. We all knew a Yes vote was coming at the back of our minds.
Consistent "progressive" victories will push right-wing individuals further and further right. That's not healthy for a democracy either.
Isaiah Perez
>Why would life be worth less than the convenience of the mother?
It's not a matter of convenience. Her rights are absolute and those of the foetus are variable until it is proven to be currently viable.
>If you are saying the right to life is something that can be outweighed by anything but the moral wrongdoing of the person whose life is being taken away, that is murder.
Murder is a legal term, with strict definition. If it's legal to abort the foetus it is by definition not murder.
You're trying to make a moral argument using an inherently amoral legislative framework that isn't compatible now.
Jonathan Carter
>babies get their limbs cut off to make it easier to pull them out of the womb
the fug is wrong with roasties
Mason Allen
Feeling proud of my country. A margin that great is incredible.
Grayson Thomas
They're human but not yet babies by that point.
Kevin Ward
>celebrating the freedom to kill human offspring
How can you unironically celebrate this? Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with your moral compass?
Nolan Perry
And so, in the future, historians will look back on this as an era of savagery, an era of unimaginable cruelty, an era in which it was not only legal but in fact a cause for celebration for some to brutally murder millions of children.
Carson Wood
I'm celebrating a great victory for human rights. Why would I not be happy?
Josiah White
>incredible
you've clearly not been paying attention to the machinations of the global gayplex, this is extremely predictable if it's the actual outcome you retard
Lincoln Williams
Getting sick and tired of the direction this country is taking on social issues. We'll be Britain-lite in no time at all. Of course, that's exactly what the West Brit want.
Lincoln Sullivan
A right wing party is still in government. This isn't about left or right but a truly ridiculous and immoral restriction in our constitution that no other country in western society would have stood over. I don't think some on the right realise how extreme the eighth actually is by international standards.
Isaiah Nelson
>hurr a foetus is a human therefore it is a child/infant/etc.
Uhm, no. That's not how those words work. A foetus can be a young human but is not a baby. It's a foetus.
Adrian Thompson
>It's not a matter of convenience. Her rights are absolute and those of the foetus are variable until it is proven to be currently viable.
Why would you say that the rights of the fetus are variable? This is an argument I have not heard before.
Also, if the mother's right to not be inconvenienced by a pregnancy can be abrogated, it is not absolute. Otherwise, the right to not be inconvenienced by a pregnancy up until a certain point must be absolute (which it is clearly not), or the claim that it is falls apart.
>Murder is a legal term, with strict definition. If it's legal to abort the foetus it is by definition not murder.
If it's legal to gas a Jew, enslave a black, or steal from an Irishman, is it not murder, slavery, and theft?
>You're trying to make a moral argument using an inherently amoral legislative framework that isn't compatible now.
Murder is a moral crime before it is a civil crime. Murder can be legalised under the civil law, but never under the moral law.
Michael Lopez
My right to pull your intestines out through your throat is a victory for human rights.
Hudson Smith
Yeah, the margin of this is so big they're probably won't even be any concessions to the no side who didn't like the 12 week free for all. The shysters in FF will all deflect to rat Martin's view, FG, SF and all the other lefties will vote this through, while our bargaining chip is fucking Mattie McGrath to propose less extreme laws.
Henry Reyes
How the fuck is it a human right to kill our own offspring? It's fucking disgusting and unnatural. Yes voters are hedonistic narcissists who want to live a life devoid of personal responsibility.
Owen Cruz
>human rights
>takes the right to life away from every single new human
Jack White
>Consistent "progressive" victories will push right-wing individuals further and further right
Gay marriage and abortion being introduced do not make me want to join the NP. My morals and such aren't changed by this.
Are you suggesting this will drive people towards the likes of the NP, or are you saying our views will be labeled by others as being right-wing, simply because the center has moved further left?
>We all knew a Yes vote was coming at the back of our minds
Well because a majority of people here want some form of abortion in Ireland. Nothing wrong with that if that's the democratic decision right?
>Gonna get a good shag tonight lads
Might as well finish it off with a burger and an abortion while you're at it, make it right good night.
Lincoln Gomez
But the orange order wanted us to vote No? We're becoming globalist which is the opposite of little britain and what the West Brits aspire towards.
Daniel Torres
What makes you say our government is right wing?
Carson Bailey
So much for civil discussion of abortion on /éire/.
Kevin Wright
>A right wing party is still in government
>implying FG is socially right wing
>immoral restriction
Depends on your morals. Yes voters seem to have very twisted ones.
>that no other country in western society would have stood over
Irrelevant.
Henry Martinez
And restoring those of 50%+ of all humans who will ever exist.
Brayden Evans
Suggesting 68% of our country has twisted morals is a very anti-Irish statement.
Levi Martinez
Eli Ward
This is what they want.
But that's only one side of the equation.
Pacification, or else... what?
Jayden Cox
>Are you suggesting this will drive people towards the likes of the NP, or are you saying our views will be labeled by others as being right-wing, simply because the center has moved further left?
Both (although maybe not specifically the NP). The Overton window has shifted dramatically in Ireland today.
>Nothing wrong with that if that's the democratic decision right?
Under normal circumstances. But I don't consider abortion to be a normal issue.
I was referring to how we are adopting a British stance on more and more social issues.
Noah Rogers
Is there some reference or joke here I am missing?
Christopher Perez
I'm not going to keep repeating my reasons for voting yes, if you haven't understood that perspective by now you're probably not going to.
Thomas James
Good idea. Killing sperm cells is the closest I can get to killing babies at the moment.
Jayden Lopez
>implying I regularly browse this heap of a board
probably one of the lowest IQ boards on the chon and every general like some sort of discord, you retards can go back to discussing the weather or whatever after the interesting things play out
Jonathan Russell
I can draw no alternate conclusion.
>if you haven't understood that perspective by now you're probably not going to.
Clearly. It just seems so insane and morally deficient to me. I just can't wrap my head around it.
Isaiah Perez
>I was referring to how we are adopting a British stance on more and more social issues.
Abortion is in every western country, why would you flag it as a distinctly British stance?
Carter Baker
Elijah Parker
Just the first hot take tweet I saw.
Andrew Howard
>Why would you say that the rights of the fetus are variable? This is an argument I have not heard before.
Because in my eyes they should be.
>Also, if the mother's right to not be inconvenienced by a pregnancy can be abrogated, it is not absolute.
It is, because it isn't "the right to remove the foetus however she pleases". It is "the right to remove the foetus at any point she wishes by whatever means are compatible with it's current rights." At no point can she be forced to keep the pregnancy ongoing, but the methods available to end it can vary.
>If it's legal to gas a Jew, enslave a black, or steal from an Irishman, is it not murder, slavery, and theft?
It'd be slavery and theft but not murder. Murder is defined as an unlawful killing, a lawful killing is not murder in a legal sense. Theft and slavery can be legal acts - even under many modern legal systems we practice minor acts of both.
You can call it slaughter, killing, etc. Not murder - unless you specifically refer to a foreign legal system you adhere to compared to the subject, I suppose, if you were to go to another country and yet argue based on Irish law as an example.
>Murder is a moral crime before it is a civil crime.
It didn't exist until law did and its definition is mutable. It isn't a moral construct, it's a legal one.
Dominic Martin
>why would you flag it as a distinctly British stance?
Because they are our nearest neighbour and the most similar European country to Ireland from a cultural perspective (whether we like it or not).
Wyatt Mitchell
How about masturbate, post here, masturbate again and then go to bed?
Joseph Robinson
I voted No because I hate women.
Lucas Turner
>The Overton window
Another new word to add to the dictionary, merci.
Tyler Jones
I voted yes because I hate knackers.
Matthew Johnson
over 90% of the country can't even speak Irish and are thus only a kind of pseudo Irish
Daniel White
>A right wing party is still in government.
Sheep in wolves clothing.
For God sake a gay Indian is our leader and every party supported the yes vote.
Oliver Butler
I spoilt my ballot because I hate voting.
Noah White
*a gay irishman
Austin Collins
Not going to watch or read any news media tomorrow, lads. Going to go out and cut a load of timber and maybe cut some grass.
Only learnt of it in the last year myself. Handy term.
Tyler Foster
Those who oppose the genocide of white children are more Irish than those who support it
Joshua Harris
So what margin are we expecting fir the RTE poll. Yes won but having a bigger margin than gay marriage seems odd, seeing as that appeared to be an easier sell.
Nicholas Wilson
I don't post on Éire normally but as a Yes voter I thought I'd check in.
For whatever it's worth I am genuinely sorry and offer my condolemces. I realise what happened today is an abhorrent thing to you, and you must feel fairly awful for how many will die as a result.
I regret that it had to be this way.
Lincoln Miller
>Because in my eyes they should be.
In my eyes they should not be. An impasse. Solveable by reference to objective reasoning, or only solveable through force?
>by whatever means are compatible with it's current rights."
If it has the right to life, it does not not have that right when it is alive. A right is absolute, there is no "balancing" rights, it's all about hierarchies. Life is either a right that is superior to women's whims, or it is not a right at all.
>It'd be slavery and theft but not murder. Murder is defined as an unlawful killing, a lawful killing is not murder in a legal sense.
That's if you grant that there is a specific reality which reasoning can determine as the meaning of slavery and murder, but not murder.
Otherwise, you are fallaciously applying one meaning to slavery and murder, the moral one, but not to murder, which is what we are trying to determine - if murder is murder independent of a law that it is murder.
So either slavery is defined as unlawful obligation to someone else's work and rights, and theft as unlawful obligation to someone else's property (one that is also the objective meaning of theft, unlike the other two), or else murder is as real before a legal system applies as slavery and theft. Which is it? Is there an actual moral law, or does no one have rights to anything before a legal system applies to it?
>It didn't exist until law did and its definition is mutable. It isn't a moral construct, it's a legal one.
You keep saying this, but you must answer this question to be clear: Is there a moral definition of murder which pre-exists a legal definition of murder whose definition is arbitrarily decided?
Could you declare a gathering of crows a crime, but not killing someone who you don't like?
IS THERE A RIGHT AND A WRONG YOU MOTHERFUCKING WRETCH
Robert Morgan
>cut a load of timber and maybe cut some grass
Is turf no longer within the overton window, or is that too traditional now?
>Not going to watch or read any news media tomorrow, lads
Fair enough desu. Shall fill you in on how smug everyone is being.
Andrew Rodriguez
Did you just change the wording of a cartoon villain's speech?
Cameron Phillips
>Yes won but having a bigger margin than gay marriage seems odd
Thought the same, but it seemed people were more motivated to get out for this. Certainly strange.
Evan Johnson
One hundred thousand plus teens turned voting age and tens of thousands of old folk died since then, and that referendum definitely motivated the younger and abroad crowds to get more involved in referendums.
I think it's inevitable that such a huge margin won.
Kevin Brooks
Feel free to emigrate then
Chase Clark
Ah, Mr Bond...
I don't see my victims face-to-face normally but as this is one of those occasions I thought I'd check in.
For whatever it's worth I am genuinely sorry and offer my condolences. I realise what happened today is an abhorrent thing to you, and you must feel fairly awful for how many will die as a result.
I regret that it had to be this way.
Juan Murphy
>Is turf no longer within the overton window, or is that too traditional now?
We don't have any turf on our land.
>Shall fill you in on how smug everyone is being.
I'm only going to turn up for FRANXX-posting.
Brayden Martinez
I can only imagine what Jow Forumsireland is like now.
Christian Howard
emigrate to where?
Jaxson Martin
>We don't have any turf on our land
Much wealth.
Henry Foster
You could check it.