Tfw I have more monetary value in my coinbase than my RBS account.
If I were to hypothetically transfer the money, would I do this in several increments to avoid raising suspicion and take a hit on fees or send it all in one go since it's under £11k but risk them contacting me/account suspension.
Also, UK law isn't clear at all on crypto gains the FCA literally called it gambling and therefore should be exempt on tax in 2014 is there anything else they've explicitly said?
Other urls found in this thread:
warosu.org
gov.uk
pdf-archive.com
twitter.com
I used coincorner , capital gains allowance is £11,700 anyway so you should be fine
in the uk you can cash out 11.7k tax free.
I hear you on the gambling but unless you used etoro (options) i think you will be gambling on if they want to tax
bittylicious or cryptosaurus, but these guys price is not amazing. if you want to go over the 11.7k get gift cards or if you are willing to have risk localbitcoins.... otherwise you get taxed.
Use revolut and get a debit card for it. Can't imagine they would give a shit that you're transferring big sums to it.
How many figures are we talking here?
Only 4, it was up to 5 during the ATH so I'll probably just hodl.
localbitcoins
have a look out for me, I usually offer a good price
arent you worried about your bank being shut down since they all hate lbc traders?
I'm fortunately with one of the few pro(ish) lbc banks (Santander)
But yeah you're right. My old bank shut me down (Bank of Scotland) specifically for doing LBC trades, even though my account was completely above board and I was fully upfront, honest and open with them.
Now I tell them nothing and they don't ask.
Besides, fuck banks.
4 figures is literally nothing, just transfer it all in one go.
I read some where any investments that haven't returned £10k+ dont have to be declared
How's the tax laws regarding this in the UK? In Sweden we have to turn in all transactions fiat -> coin which I guess makes sense but we also have to turn in all transactions inbetween different coins.
Shit is ridiculous.
UK has some of the most ridiculous legislation ever .. except for finance where there is basically none
given it's infinitely safer and easier to convert from one crypto to another, especially on ethereum, it's simply infeasible to expect people to pay tax on "gains" from coin to coin transactions.
Neat.
Well that's what they require in sweden. We also need to show receipts if possible. It's retarded. I expect it to change next year due to overload of work at the taxation agency.
Hope they enjoy going through millions of transactions.
you don't need to hand over your entire identity to move from one coin to another, nor do you even need an account if you use a decentralized exchange, or even something slightly more shitty like shapeshift.
no government can reasonably expect you to hand over your license to some chink exchange or one that's just going to try and freeze your funds just so you can pay tax on theoretical profits that never even touched a fiat currency, or were even traded against one.
I'm just saying what the law is.
Why ? Because you don't think its fair ? Grow the fuck up and do what your goverment says boi, the more people that fuck with them, the harder they come down ?
Stockholm syndrome isn't just a meme.
You cucks need to tell your government to fuck off.
>implying im not trying to make a change to the system
did you even read what i said? because in many places it simply isn't safe/secure/feasible to actually cash out large sums, so they're asking for you do something that is simply not possible in a lot of cases, and don't offer you any way to do it.
Implying directly influencing policy is an easy thing to achieve, especially in a conservative government, you really cant be this restarted ?
inb4
I'm a libertard but that doesn't make my ideals the law of the land
good.
cashing out is a meme.
But if you do, it's not difficult. If you really want to be safe then just buy whatever you want directly.
>But if you do, it's not difficult. If you really want to be safe then just buy whatever you want directly.
Oh right. Forgot to mention, That as well need to be reported to the taxation agency in Sweden.
Shit is ridiculous.
Just don't tell your government.
You really expect them to catch you? They're too busy trying to find Jamal to fuck your sister or dealing with the latest grenade attack.
All I hear is moany crap ... Its your job to find a way not the goverments job to pander to your needs ?
I'm the Swede. And I kid you not. Taxation law is the most enforced law in Sweden while also having the harshest punishments.
They will fuck you up if they realize you keep anything from them.
Back to Jow Forums plox
When you say "Just don't tell your goverment" you mean
> I don't wan't to pay taxes because its so inconvenient to me
what are the profits on each trade usually? also local ethereum doesn't have KYC, check it out
Used it to cash out loads of times but want to get into buying and selling
No, I mean taxation is theft.
I paid my tax on getting this money originally. I then put it into magical internet meme money and suddenly they want more tax? Nah
>moany crap
i dont know how the UK does it, but expecting non-fiat trades to be taxed in fiat when there is very little ways to exit large amounts safely is indicative of irrelevant tax law.
say you mined some ethereum, bought some eos via their on-chain sale, now you have a bunch of eos tokens, then you sold them, again trustlessly on ethereum back into ether.
now some government that hasn't thought their policy through, expects you to jump through hoops trying to set up exchange accounts, handing over your identity to some unknown individuals, all with the risk that at the end of the day you might not even be able to withdraw any fiat if the exchange deems you too risky.
you see how ridiculous it is to expect people who have never touched fiat along the way to suddenly be able to come up with enough fiat to pay these taxes?
this is all hypothetical anyway, because i'm never going to be paying any taxes anyway, a few HNWI accounts in singapore is good enough.
Well it depends. The real money I make (or lose) is shitcoin trading and degenerate bitmex gambling. I only use LBC for £ when I need it or someone I know does. I don't think doing £ to btc trading with a bank for profit is a good idea, considering how open it is.
If you're asking about fees then it's nothing for the taker and 1% for the maker.
You can use your partner's allowance too.
Or just send it to somebody you trust and have them give you the cash.
Taxation is theft you are 100% correct, we don't disagree, but our opinion doesn't make it so
This isn't uk law, but for the countries that do implement this you have to think about how you are effectivly creating your own bank by having a wallet.
You can give loans to people, you can take deposists and withdrawles & any other system a bank has, you can provide, your wallet (mainly the software behind the wallet) competes with banks.
Its just like trading forex except you control where your profits / losses end up. So it almost makes sense for them to tax every trade because the potential for profit on every trade is there.
Until we have some FDIC (or equivalent) insurance on crypto exchanges I don't see how they can expect taxation on profits, considering there is zero risk on their behalf.
They can't have it all ways.
>it's just my opinion
Yeah, it's just my bitcoin too
:^)
this
I transferred 5k to it via GDAX in Jan. took 3 days. close to zero fees, can't remember exactly. just make sure you withdraw to Euro and not Pound.
Ah so now you want social protection from the government but don't want to pay it (through tax) ?
If your happy to pay privately, why don't you set up your own insurance firm ?
> "Its the decentralized way"
This is the problem with most libertards, we want the government to go away, but you don't want to build anything in its place!
Would you build schools that loose money ? Because they are for the greater good (better jobs, better tech & better living standards),
Would you ran a charitable branch that porvides lawyers to criminals because they deserve representation for a system to be just, if they can't afford it themselves ?
No .. you would just exploit other people because "im so much smarter than everyone else" .. its just plain retarded and thats why the tax system has to remain regardless of its corruptibility.
>Euro not pound
But RBS charge a conversion fee when accepting deposits in Euros.
This, we love health and safety too much. My friends got woken up at 5am for their bedroom door to be replaced because it wasn't HMO standards (it never had that stupid thing that makes them close on their own). But at the same time nobody bats an eye at the financial world.
11k no problem. Once you get onto 100k otc trading is the answer.
Kinda. I'm saying I would pay tax if there was safeguards set up like there are in other clearing houses.
For example. I lost about 60 bitcoin in mtgox, where was the compensation? I didn't really expect any considering it was so long ago and crypto was young.
If today however there was a big institutional means to purchase bitcoin, recognised and insured by the government I'd happily pay tax associated.
>just set up your own insurance
Considering how many bad actors there are in this game I could very easily see myself getting defrauded. Besides, I think most insurance is a bad idea.
When we have blockchain based insurance funds, with zero middlemen and next to no overhead, it will start to look much more beneficial for the average consumer. Currently insurance firms are some of the most profitable leeches in finance.
>you don't want to build anything in its place!
I do. I just think the current meta of getting someone else to do it for you (with trust) is the most retarded models I can think of. We're entering an age now of trust-less, fully accountable transparent auditing. All the examples you mention will be completely revolutionised for the better using blockchain in some manifestation (or at least I hope).
While I tend to agree (IT in a construction company, who gets a lift daily with the health and safety guy),
There are alot of bad actors in health and saftey esspecially when its related to the government, we have had HS officers try to shutdown sites over stupid shit in a retro fit.
In the case of these doors, smoke kills in fires, being able to slow the spread of smoke helps people survive,
Bad actors are a real problem, I was toying with the idea of block chain bank but there are to many issues with trust-less model
The problem with yourself getting defrauded is the same for every company looking at the problem, it requires trust and identification (there are API's to validate ID cards / passports)
The mtgox isn't something your are usually comped against, it was a case of fraud and theft.
>Bad actors are a real problem
True. I don't think the solution is impossible though.
I believe the solution is in keeping information completely encrypted outwith specified recipients recieving specific information on a need-to-know basis. Have a look into Civic, they're looking into this with regards to identification, but I think the model could be applied to most forms of data protection.
>The mtgox isn't something your are usually comped against
It would have been if mtgox was FDIC/FSCS insured like most international banks and exchanges are.
You dont need to deposit to your RBS account. You can get a physical debit card for your revolut account, its just basically an app based banking system.
You can withdraw straight to revolut with basicslly no fees and then just spend straight from there.
Its also the best for putting new money in, zero fees.
tell the bank about your windfall, tell them the reasons for it. did so myself and had no problems, albeit in my slav shithole.
I can give a better example of lucrative HS, when my parents were trying to sell their house one of the renovated bathrooms needed an extractor fan.
This is literally a closet shower room with a window directly above it that is far more effective than the extraction fan installed and was probably more of an electrical risk because it was placed directly into the roof.
But yeah since there's no formalised cryoto tax I'm alright with the FCA until I make mad gains.
the money doesn't need to touch your RBS acc
see also Revolut converts many currencies with 0 fee's.
If you need it in your bank for whatever reason, that's also no problem. once you have your euros you change it into pounds via the app and send it to your bank.
also, going abroad? just use your Revolut card. 0 fees.
This is very helpful thank you, my long term goal is to save for a deposit/real estate. Do you have any experience in that field w/crypto?
I've been withdrawing in increments just enough into my Memetro Bank account to cover my rent every month, so below 10k a year, without any issues or letters from anyone. I heard that single transactions between 10k - 15k (differs between banks, apparently) and upwards trigger the goy detector algorithm and you'll have to prove that your gains don't come from money laundering, but anything below that you're set.
When youre going for a mortgage or even want to give cash upfront, all youre finances are checked to where it comes from.
You'll struggle IMO here.
I've already done it. Twice. It's no issue so long as you have proof of where you got the bitcoin from.
I need to sack my advisor then cause he was the one who was telling me it was super hard to get any real estate from crypto.
What's a better asset I could invest in with crypto that doesn't have as much scrutiny to purchase. Cars are a no go since they're designed to have self depreciating value, fine art?
It was easier than I thought it would be actually. Went into the estate agents with printed bank statements and localbitcoins trades (which matched up). Left it with them and the next day they said it was all okay.
2nd time they did it same day.
I did buy outright though (no mortgage), so I doubt an actual bank would be as easy.
Just pay your cgt you pajeet cunt
Oh wow a fellow Jow Forums in Edinburgh, can you give me a ballpark figure on how much it cost you outright?
And yeah I'd assume estate agents would be easier to deal with than bankers when it comes to crypto.
A few hundred grand. Bought the first one about a year ago and it's already up over 10% apparently (from espc)
Ah ok. Makes more sense then if youre buying outright, you'd only have to prove it ain't laundered like you said around proving where the BTC came from.
I suppose if youre dealing with a bank and dont have an salary income which allows you to keep up with monthly payments even though you had shit loads of crypto, the bank won't allow it.
So we have a UK tax thread and not one person has explained how they successfully paid tax when they cashed out. Brilliant.
>p-please tell me how I can pay my tax
Can you claim your crypto losses as tax deductible? If the answer to that is no then why should you pay CGT.
The real answer is there are -still- no proper guidelines out.
Mfw britbongistan bans butter knives and overly regulates every aspect of my life but pulls a complete 180 and is more libertarian than the US when it comes to crypto taxation.
I would like clear instructions on how to cash out and avoid prosecution, not vague guesses as to what may or may not be possible. Otherwise this 61 post thread is useless.
I know a few people who work at the Inland Revenue, and they have asked around.
The TL;DR is there are -still- no proper guidelines out. Go pay thousands for an accountant who will tell you the same thing.
How to cash out in the UK
Step 1. Open HSBC account (They're a crook bank and won't report lots of money going in)
Step 2. Convert funds to ETH
Step 3. Bet x amount of ETH at a time on ETHroll at 98% chance winning (roll under a 99)
Step 4. Sell winnings for fiat and send to HSBC account (Payfair will be excellent for this via it's ETH to FIAT pair and no KYC required)
If anyone asks, it's all gambling profits and therefore not taxable, just record all profits coming out of the etheroll smart contract as proof.
This is why people call you britcucks. Not only you bow down and take it up the ass, but you find ways to aggressively defend your willful spreading of your buttcheeks as manly.
Read this thread warosu.org
>OI, WHERES YOUR INVESTING LICENSE! NO ICOS FOR YOU PLEB
Ive been in the game since Mar 2017 and still haven't paid tax out of ignorance. Pretty sure im fucked. Especially if crypto to crypto is taxable.
Just pay your god damn taxes
Open a company in Singapore for £500
Apply to give yourself a working visa from the company (Another £500).
Fly to Singapore.
Cash out all your Crypto with an OTC desk (there are a few here in Singapore)
Live in Singapore for the rest of the year.
Go home.
SIngapore has zero capital gains tax.
Standard of living is high as fuck and the weather is sunny all year round.
t. Brit living in Singapore
Crypto to crypto isn’t taxed in the UK. I’m pretty sure our regulations mean we just pay tax as capital gains. You get 11.5k tax free per year, and anything other that is taxable or something.
CGT only applies if you can claim losses as tax deductible (as you would with any investment).
Good luck with that.
CGT for this would be heavy, 40% at least and would easily pay for Mohammed's new flat w/his 4 wives 10 offspring and Tracey's abortion that she'll post on Instagram.
*We don't have much Stacey's here, we call them Tracey's
Capital gains limit, if you've held for over 1 year, limit is 11.7k.
Capital gain laws specifiy that each transaction that realises profit is a taxable event. UK tax law isn't actually that nebulous on crypto. Basically the same as declaring trading profits in any other market.
For most of us here, not cashing any profit for over 1 year, then going under the CGT limit incrementally is the easiest course of action. If you're cashing out huge amounts from exchanges, you'd probably need to declare any transaction that had fiat pairings.
If you're not LARPing, you have more than enough money to hire an accountant
+1.
Accountants really aren't that expensive in the scheme of things. Maybe confirm the price before you slam a cvs file of hundreds of thousands of trades exported from your exchange accounts though.
I just discovered this: pdf-archive.com