What's Vitalik's end game? I hate this fucking kid

Nassim new books are garbage basically. If he was really that good of an economist he'd already be in crypto. The guy can only teach

He’s educated beyond his maturity.

And he’s still a brainlet compared to Craig Satoshi Wright

He's just making fun of the guy's Tyson de Grasse-level tweets, you have issues if this makes you hate him.

you can't believe it because that was not his intention. retard

Never curse our sacred money skelly

>itt: insecure ALPHA basedboys who will never make it dogpiling on a literal genius who basically helped make the scene they're hoping to make it off of
gross

Wtf is that sand nigger trying to say? Bet 45 mins and a week? That gmo are an intellectual fraud? What?

This

>GMOs are a fraud because P/NP
>Oh I get it instantly now
what a stupid tweet lmao

He still didn't explain why GMO would be bad. He's just a fucking organic food retard.

something something free cheese pizza for everyone

>Wtf is that sand nigger trying to say?
This. I need a translation
>intellectual fraud
I those jews were smart and witty and shit, this doesn't make any sense

He's against GMO because they have unknown ecosystemic effects up to and including total catastrophe. He's saying he can explain it easily to computer scientists who know about p/np. He's also saying that people who think supporting GMO are on the side of Sciience! (aka your average redditor who has an iq of 98 but wants to look smart) but actually they're just useful idiots and don't understand anything.

Can you explain p/np to a brainlet

It's the traveling salesman problem.
>how to reach every most efficiently
Not relevant at all to this besides dick flexing about
>muh academic knowledge

every CS student learns about this in their first year, it's not even esoteric or anything. I genuinely don't get how it relates to GMOs

I don't think he should engage in random discussion on twitter (it might hurt Ethereum's brand), but he's right.

it has nothing to do with GMOs.

Taleb is just trying to flex his supposed academic knowledge to make himself look smart.

You can't believe it because you didn't read the context of his tweet and/or you didn't understand his point.

Why is Vitalik talking with the person who shot up YouTube HQ? I thought they died

Elon Musk engages in random online discussions on Twitter all the time and people still invest in him. TSLA is still chugging along

P - polynomial time, set of problems that can be solved + verified in polynomial time
NP - non-polynomial time, set of problems that may be able to be verified, but cannot be solved in polynomial time
if P = NP, every NP problem is really just a P problem that we haven't found a good polynomial time solution for yet
if P != NP, NP problems are their own special class where no polynomial time solution exists

traveling salesman is the classic NP problem example, but there are many others
there is also a fancy subset of NP called NP-complete, basically an NP-complete problem is a special problem, that you can represent ALL other NP problems as a version of. A polynomial time solution to any NP-complete problem, would be trivial to transform into a polynomial solution to ALL NP problems, and would constitute proof that P = NP.

also buy BCH

Taleb's a tail risk manager. To him, GMO's are something whose effects are difficult to calculate in advance but easy to verify afterwards if/when they do, indeed, fuck shit up.

Whether modern transgenics are really all that different from ancient and current selective breeding is debatable, but that's how Taleb's getting the P-NP analogy.

IT has to do with the potential ecosytemic implications of genetic drift. You don't know how bad you fucked up until it's unfixable.

>doesn’t know who one of the greatest staticians is
Okay retard. Guy has made more from trading than you can possibly imagine.

P is the stuff you can find easy.
Np you could search forever and never find exactly what you’re looking for
What he’s saying is that it’s very difficult to determine the outcome of gmo due to it being an np problem. Something you can’t just apply a simple solution to.

Every single action you take has effects. How does he justify his claim that GMOs are riskier than anything else we do and therefore require special risk management.

Never finding what you’re looking for is what happens when you don’t have enough info or enough cpu that is.

Because the parameters are basically infinite with dna. It’s chaos balanced by processes we don’t understand

This dudes a complete tool. He talks with authority on shit he knows fuck all about. Even in his own field. He’s written entire books about economic concepts he scarcely understands. Antifragile is one such example. Fucking obnoxious too. Sam Harris has a story about him.

pseuds tweeting at pseuds

But that's true for nearly everything in the universe. You jerking off to trap porn might be a pivotal decision that leads to nuclear warfare.

You are conflating changing the code of a system (ie inflicting changes to biology which would take eons to evaluate the outcome) to what modern psychology could predict. I shouldn't have to explain why these are two very different problems. Human psychology is pretty well understood and its why people walk around with guns to ensure total collapse doesn't happen.

>also buy BCH
rip credibility

He's not discussing heroin and child porn though. I think you should be very careful what you say it public when you're the face of a huge project.

mfw then whatever we do is a P=NP problem. what DO we know everything about.

what this shill is basically saying is that we don't know everything about the long-term effects of GMOs. do we know the long-term effects of exposure to gasoline in the air? or cellphone use?

everything can be seen that way.

or maybe burgers shouldn't get all worked up. you know your politicians and celebrities are all fucking kids, right? i mean, you guys basically accept that. why is what vitalik said so outrageous in comparison

What's the problem here? Vitalik isn't wrong. There's nothing inherently wrong with GMO foods. Literally every single thing we eat is GMO one way or another. On top of that, GMO foods are often designed to have higher densities of nutrients and be naturally insect repellent so harmful pesticides aren't needed to be used in large quantities. Why do literal brainlets think GMO = poison, when all it is is changing the DNA of the plant to create more favorable and nutritious food. It's not like shooting lead and mercury into food, it's simply changing it's genes to make it better. Christ people are dumb.

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>to what modern psychology could predict
Jack shit. The best statisticians around couldn't even accurately predict the outcome of the most important election in the world.

fuck
>this

yeah but one of the crucial things you are missing which computer scientists tend to think about is rates of change.

if a crop reproduces every year then the effect grows exponentially without any interaction while any given technological advancement has an upper limit as a function of human population size as well as policy changes.

Which thing is going to get out of hand really quickly with very little ability to put on the breaks? sure CO2 emissions are of the same category but we are talking about rates of change with DNA which are unprecedented.

If people die from a cellphone that sucks but who cares, you're comparing ecological meltdown to increases in cancer rates.

They're closer to propaganda outlets, not unbiased statisticians. Nate Silver gave trump like 1/3 chance to win iirc which sounds about right.

>Jack shit. The best statisticians around couldn't even accurately predict the outcome of the most important election in the world.
yeah those weren't totally biased or anything

>also buy BCH
ya blew it

they're genetically modified to be pathogen and herbicide resistant so they can spray them with round-up

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>statistician
>biased
>not a statistician

taleb is a huckster

but that guy's tweet ISN'T fucking retarded
GMOs are an absolute fucking scam
GMO companies patent the genes, put it into seeds, and then when one farmer buys it and plants it, ALL farmers in the surrounding area get sued for patent infringement
whether GMOs hurt people or not (and you'd have the iq of a fucking napkin to think that random genetic mutations induced on a plant by a company that has it in with the regulatory board that allows them to sell this shit in the first place could not possibly be dangerous, jesus fucking christ), it's all a giant fucking scam that has never produced anything of value
they rely on people like you to exist so that you can waste your precious limited passion and life force on defending their global scam on its purported nobility and how "pro-science" it is, you dumb fucking prey

>never produced anything of value
sauce?

Hi Nassim.

Nice seeing you on Jow Forums.

The computer science part of it is retarded, though.

So by your logic all risks are equivalent? So for example developing and testing an extremely virulent airborne biological pathogen is as risky as developing a slightly light M14? That is the level of understanding you have of risk analysis.

Risk analysis = distribution of probable outcomes multiplied by their danger. Creating a super virus = reasonably high risk shit goes wrong and if it does go wrong it goes REALLY wrong.

The net sum of every scenario where GMOs cause severe problems is sufficiently high that when balanced with the statistical risks it isnt worth it. These are boundary limits. Your absurdism/fatalistic 'muh butterfly' bullshit does nothing because by its very own implication any and all decisions are rendered meaningless, we may as well stop even planting crops in the first place because what if by planting them we end up attracting some alien species that is addicted to wheat and enslaves us all.

Fucking brainlet.

Do you consider Norman Borlaug's work with wheat to be genetic modification? Why or why not?

GMO is bad because the companies that use it own any plant that gets POLLENATED by their plant. So once their pollen has spread everywhere, they will own all the crops in the world. They will literally sue any farmer in farms that are next to their farms because the wind blows their pollen to the neighboring farm and then the other farmer is "infringing on their copyright". Watch he documentary "Food, Inc."

Vitalik is either REALLY stupid and naive, or just a tool of the establishment. I.e., an actor who never invented anything, whose job is purely PR oriented.

genetic modification is a far more controlled and precise process than traditional breeding. You're introducing a gene into a plant with a reasonable understanding of what will happen, whereas traditional breeding is a process which results in totally unpredictable combinations of genetic material. The concept of GMOs becoming these deadly or environmentally catastrophic organisms was seeded by hippies and sci-fi nonsense, not grounded scientific knowledge.

> NP = non-polynomial time
NP actually stands for non-deterministic polynomial time, which means that it can be solved in polynomial time, if we used a non-deterministic Turing machine. Which is precisely why the argument in the post that OP linked to is ridiculous.. The problem they are talking about regarding GMOs is clearly NOT in the class NP, as even if we were given an assignment of all of the potential variables involved in producing GMOs, we couldnt instantly just check the answer and see the results; much in the same way that if we are given the state of a chess board and given a series of moves, we cannot check whether the game reaches an end game state or not, you still have to play the game out. The "GMO problem" is exponential complexity at best. whatever your opinion is about vitalik, that nassim nicholas taleb has absolutely no idea what he's talking about...

only really in america my friend

>also buy BCH
KYS brainlet

That's a problem with legislation, not with GMO plants. Look at the bigger picture.

If nothing else convinces you that GMOs are fine, this ought to.

Your original point wasn't that the process was well understood and controlled, you were literally arguing that the risks were irrelevant because everything is risky.

Regardless I am a literal Biomedical chemist and I can tell you for an absolute fact that there's a lot less 'precision' and 'predictability' in this shit than you seem to think. Stop idolising 'science' and release that the prime incentive is and always will be making money and that money blinds people.

>that the risks were irrelevant because everything is risky
No, the risks are overinflated by people emotionally biased against GMOs.

bad example, sorry, just woke up. given a set of N moves, you can check whether a chess game reaches an end game state in N steps, so of course that is in NP. a better example would be to ask "given the current state of the board, what is the optimal move" which is basically what "the GMO problem" is posing

brainlets cannot even fathom the depths of how difficult it is to understand the effects of changing DNA and reduce the problem into simple analogies they can understand.

GMOs really need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

Glyphosate-resistant crops let farmers drown their fucking fields in glyphosate. Consequently, higher concentrations of glyphosate residue end up in the final product. The carcinogenicity of glyphosate is up in the air right now, and there is a nonzero possibility we're all giving ourselves liver cancer by eating GMO corn chips and meat raised on GMO corn.

Golden rice on the other hand is rice with a gene inserted that makes it produce vitamin A. That's literally it. It's just more nutritious and keeps a lot of thai babies from getting goiter or rickets or whatever the fuck it is you get when you don't get vitamin A.

The technique is no more or less dangerous than selective breeding. It's just what you do with it that may or may not be dangerous.

>this

Yeah Taleb's analogy wasn't very good.

Watch "Consumed" if you have netlfix. It's a fictional movie based on companies like Monsanto.

>Yeah Taleb's analogy wasn't very good.
thinking about things and thinking about the outcomes of things are the same thing.

sure man

but the point is that solving P=NP in the affirmative is not going to make the problem any easier like it will with classic NP problems like vehicle routing and password cracking. It will change a lot of things, but this particular problem will still be just as hard, because it is harder than NP problems. regardless of what you think about his argument, the analogy he made, that "the GMO problem" is in NP, is bad

Computer Science is for literal brainlets

dude it obviously went over your head because he's not making a claim about solving that problem.

Hes not even making the claim that GMOs work or not, he's saying that its impossible to affirmatively know that GMOs will not blow up in our face. Given all the technology which has blown up in our face this isn't really a bold claim by any means.

The burden of proof is on others but it requires experiment results which are impossible to provide.

e.g. make 100 planets and fuck with the genes of life on those planets and come back and tell me what happens. this is an impossible experiment and its the only way to affirm the claims which have been made about GMO safety.

hes eager to join the ranks of the global elite. this is unvirtue signalling to the power structure that hes totally cool with poisoning the general population and is encouraging the sheeple that follow him to consume products linked in study after study (including monsantos own studies they were sued into releasing) to leaky gut syndrome, cancer, and infertility.

are you surprised. hes a genious and an autistic sociopath that sees the rest of us as animals.

also, LOOK INTO HIS EYES, if you cant see the evil there you are fucking blind. look at that mans face and tell me you would be ok with him babysitting your kids for the night.

possibly his whole backstory is bullshit and he was selected by the establishment to perform this role. same as bill gates or the zuck.

ethereum cant be trusted

i dont even want to buy any now

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to add onto what exactly is happening here vitalk is basically supporting any claims made by people at monsanto about being super sure that nothing bad will happen.

that in my opinion is the retarded side of the argument. vitalk is the person making claims to know things not nassim

>Whether modern transgenics are really all that different from ancient and current selective breeding is debatable
thats just some bullshit they tell you. you cant take the genes from one species and put them in another through selective breeding.

do you have any idea how complex the ffects of gene alteration can be. you change one gene and it effects things generations later you cant even predict. eating this shit when no proper studies have been done, when the few studies that have been done show its not safe. eating this shit is the height of ignorance.

its eugenics. put poison in the food supply, ideally something that makes people infertile within a few generations. and then warn people its poison. those smart enough not to eat it dont get killed off. so in a horrible way maybe theres a silver lining here if it makes the race stronger killing off gullible twats.

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yes we do know the effects of cellphones and its not good. the studies all came out in the last year and its pretty fucking conclusive that if you put a phone in your pocket every day and sleep beside it at night youre fucked. youre just fucked. stop that shit now or you are fucking dead. its that simple.

also diesel fumes in the air lead to alzheimers

you assume we dont know this shit because its not reported in msm. because the people who own msm are the ones doing this to us.

there is an establishment, and it hates us. figure it out

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Vitalik is an absolute cunt.

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> Literally every single thing we eat is GMO one way or another
gmo shills like to lump selective breeding in with transgenics. even though in common english when someone says gmo they really mean transgenic.

so right off the bat we have a disingenuous person here.

80% of the corn, onions, sugar, and canola is gmo unless otherwise stated. and this shit is in all processed foods. easy enough to avoid if you dont eat processed garbage soft kill poison eugenics food from bilderburg globalist food corps

>that sounds crazy
life is crazy bud. doesnt mean im wrong

gmos have been banned in many countries including scotland and russia.

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Ethereum will be number 1 cryptocurrency. You can twist as many of Vitalik a tweets as you like in any way you want and nothing is going to change that outcome.

welp, do you think your average billionaire that owns major shares in these companies don't do anything your average joe does? does he not breath this shit because he knows it's bad? hell no, he breaths it and doesn't give a single fuck, just like me, and you.

source: am a billionaire and own shares in Shell.

270 IQ pleb stay mad

> thinks i thought he said he was solving P=NP
he gave an explanation of NP complete problems and then goes on to ask if the determination of harm from GMOs is in this complexity class, with the implication that he thinks it is. my point is that problems in this class are very special in that if someone was to suddenly one day find out that P=NP, every problem in that class would suddenly be very easy to solve (vehicle routing, boolean satisfiability, etc) and i dont agree that "the GMO problem" WOULD become easy to solve if we suddenly found out that P=NP. the problem he describes is at least exponential, so he should have said that it was NP-hard at the very least.
Its a semantic argument, i know, but if he is going to use an unrelated concept to try and give intellectual weight to his arguments, he should make sure he knows what he is talking about, or else it is hard to take him seriously in the other things he says. It was an unnecessary analogy and a bad one at that..

dude those were fake polls
real polls predicted a 50% chance for trump more or less. (while new york times predicted a 99% chance of hillary victory lol)
all the msm polls said one thing, every other fucking poll said something else. the methodology was flawed on purpose, it is so easy to bullshit a poll that you shouldnt trust a poll unless you understand exactly how the poll was conducted

exactly

>You're introducing a gene into a plant with a reasonable understanding of what will happen
thats the problem, they know what theyre doing, and the shits still dangerous. what does that tell me, that theyre trying to kill us. slowly of course, from many different directions. while lowering fertility. its population control thats all.

meanwhile the effects generations down the hard cant be predicted at all. would be hilarious if after some mutations generations later their precious gmo soft kill poison actually becomes healthy by accident. that would be rich. but i doubt that will happen

First good post in the thread desu

>generations down the road

this. vitalik is in with the global elites. just look at his pedo quotes. ethereum is globalist organization and the elites are fond of it.

the people doing this to us are so evil that they dont care if they kill themselves and their children in the process of harming us.

you dont uinderstand evil. its the opposite of good. and just like how a truly good person will risk his life to save another; a truly evil person will risk his like to hurt others.

evil people are in power. because good people are naive and cant understand or even believe in true evil. they do what they do right out in the open, its not a big secret, doesnt have to be.

Ah yes Scotland and Russia the global leaders of science