Jow Forums, Is owning a house a meme?

>Buying a house is an investment

That way of thinking is the reason the housing market is such bullshit right now. A house is for living in, staying fucking put, and eventually dying in. No sale.

Exactly, when you're renting you're STILL paying off a mortgage, and you're STILL paying for maintenance and repairs, the only difference is you're cucking yourself into doing it for someone else.

The fact that this is even up for debate is why I know I’ll be able to make it if I work hard enough and these cat-loving open-mouth-smiling guys probably won’t

top kek @ nosebergstein

>Buying a house is an investment

no its not, you total imbecile. its a massive liability unless your renting it out to someone else and making a profit. read a fucking book

>Rent. People will argue that the price of the mortgage, maintenance taxes, etc is all baked into the price of rent. Sometimes this is true. But usually not.

What is this cuck faggot saying? Of course all those expenses would be "baked into your rent". Does he think a landlord would rent to you at a loss?

i get a hefty tax deduction from owning my home

If you plan on staying put for 10 years and your house doubles, I'd say pretty good investment. All the while deducting taxes on interest and gaining equity.

Just don't take out those big short, 1% down mortgages and don't buy in a shit area

Except when you buy in at the top of a massive bubble.

We're at the top of a massive bubble right now. Renters who can buy are shorting the housing market. I'm gonna buy in when boomers really start dying off en masse.

Rent: you get nothing back
House: you get some money back

If you have the cash to buy a house in full, do it. Loans mean "lol pay 2x the price of dis house ok?"

If you own, your mortgage payment is likely less than a rent payment, and it goes to equity, so if you sell and your house hasn't lost value, you get a lot of that money back.

You also get a tax deduction for mortgage interest, which is likely to be thousands of dollars for the first decade of the loan.

There's a lot to be gained by owning if you get a decent price in a decent area.

>being this retarded

It IS an investment if you plan for it to be. Buy low sell high. Oh I forgot this is /biz.

No, if you have the cash do NOT buy it outright. You will get a great mortgage interest rate and all you need to do with the cash is invest it in something that has a higher ROI than the mortgage interest rate.

How many houses will mean I never work again? I have enough in crypto to buy 1.5 houses at the moment, hoping we can bubble up hard, thinking of buying maybe 5 houses, living in one and renting out the other 4 to white people

Buying homes will continue to be a more attractive option until the interest rates rise a significant amount

He does not want to but often he must. To fucking lazy to cite sources, but roughly half the landlords loose money when factoring in the deprecation, maintanance costs and tenant delinqency. Even if they did not mortage themselves to get the property.

I personally was renting out house I inherited far bellow what it'd cost for you to buy with 30 year mortgage (~1000 vs 500 per month).

Don't get me wrong, there are situations where the marked is fucked up that paying _three times_ the value of house with mortgage is still better then renting. But often renting is viable to.

There's nothing like that. Paying off the loan is always the best option. Always.

this is classic terrible advice from James Altschuler, self-appointed "crypto genius".

Owning a home is like the only 1 way bet left in this country
> massive money printing
> deductible interest
> cant lose in the LR unless you're retarded

Everything is a meme once it gets arbitraged out

Yes housing is a meme

>buying a house at ATH
BOOMERCONNNEEEEEEEC

Unless your house halves. You've spent 400k on a house, sell for 200k (and you consider yourself lucky aftrer selling it after 2 years on the market, because you know, fluidity).
And you spent 50k in taxes on 400k house (initial value) over last 10 years.
Minus 5% commision both times (8k first time at least).

So your 400k "investment" just returned 150k after 10 years.

Congrats moron.

>Paying off the loan is always the best option. Always.
my initial crypto investment money that would have been a downpayment on a house is now worth more than the house.
index funds also have had greater returns than the interest rates on the loans.
opportunity cost is a thing

Good luck renting from me for the rest of you're life :^)

Are these numbers real? A place that makes 1500 in rent would cost us over 500k to buy before expenses, it is literally cheaper to rent. The underlying reason why people buy here is for the appreciation which is expected to make up the difference + a tasty profit. This is because house prices always go up and interest rates always go down.

If you plan on setting up yournp roots i.e. having a family, its nice to have a house.

>Are these numbers real?
The only number I said was 10 years of renting at $1,500 a month would be $180,000. I said getting "something" back for a house purchase because that would vary greatly depending on a lot of conditions.

>A place that makes 1500 in rent would cost us over 500k to buy before expenses

Really? I find that hard to believe. Do you live in a major city? In my area renting is way more expensive than a mortgage payment for a house of the same sq feet and bed rooms. My 3 bedroom apartment I used to live in was $1600 (granted it had a lot of ameneties and shit I never used) and my 3 bedroom house is $900 a month. How the hell do landlords in your area stay afloat?

Is anyone planning to just save and buy a cheap house somewhere in Eastern Europe. I heard house tax is non existent there, food, electricity and internet is very cheap.

kek

taxes are way lower, but you have to set some money aside for bribes. in countries like bulgaria (im planning on moving there myself if we manage to bubble again) youll need a bribe for everything: to buy a house, to register it, to get living permit, etc.
its basically like paying taxes, the only difference is you pay directly to some bureaucratic rat and not to the country budget.

>bribe to buy a house
>bribe to get permit
>bribe to register
what kind of shithole... So anyone with some money can move there

UNLESS you put that down payment money into work that brings you much more back in return (like crypto)

In my country (ausfag), this is how it's done:
>Buy a house for $415,000 with around 20% deposit to beat Mortgage Lenders Insurance, making an LVR of around 75%
>Pay off mortgage over 4 or 5 years at around $1400 per month
>Home appreciates in value during that time, let's say to around $440,000 with some light renovations
>Reach into the equity of your home
>Use this plus cash saved as deposit for new investment property for $350,000
>Rent that home for $400 per week
>Its mortgage is $1200 per month
>You're cash-flow positive by $100 per week
>Continue this for 2 or 3 years, investment property appreciates in value during this time along with your first home
>Reach into their equity + the cash you've saved, make deposit on another home worth $350,000
>Rent it out for $420 a week because rent has increased
>Its mortgage is $1200 per month
>You're now cash flow positive for $220 a week
>Repeat the process

Compare this to:
>paying $20,000 a year for the roof over your head
>your money provides a 0% ROI
>you have no equity to reach into, no leverage to borrow from

Owning your home is decent way to get into the market, if you make smart decisions. The earlier you get in, the better. The adage that "Time IN the market beats timing the market" is especially true for housing. Sure there's bubbles, but in property-market timeframes they recover quickly (The 2008 GFC was entirely recovered from in my country within 3 or 4 years - in fact, property prices had never soared higher since).

I'm 22, just bought my first home and will be moving to acquire my first investment property in the next 2 years. Looking to achieve a 5% monthly yield.

Anyone done this before and have any tips?

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However you have to live in a shitty part of the country to get a decent house under 600k. Sure it's feasible to own a house for 400k but you'll be living in the middle of fuck all surrounded by housos.

>mfw 1% interest rate and 100% increase in houseprices over the last 5 years

ye its a meme heh

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>Unless your house halves
Just as the Sahara harbors fodder for lions, the market holds retards for the witty.

If you buy a house and its value halves, you're completely - utterly retarded. Here's how it could happen and how simple diligence could avoid it:
Cause:
>natural disaster wipes it out
Mitigation:
>don't buy in flood zones, fire zones or areas which have had cyclones / landslides / earthquakes / tsunamis in the past
>Your insurance should cover every single cent of your home. Claim it and then sell the land for profit.

Cause:
>an open-air rubbish dump opens up right across the road
Mitigation:
>assess 20-year council plans, analyse zoning, inquire with local council and town-planners as to development options

Cause:
>a telecom demolishes the house next door and builds a radio-station there
Mitigation:
>see the previous point, know your rights as a landholder in the local council you live in

Cause:
>the area becomes extremely, violently niggerfied and your street becomes a literal crack-den ridden, sewage strewn hell-hole
Mitigation:
>assess owner-occupied vs. renting percentage and its historical trends for indications that it's niggerfying
>assess median household income for the area and historical trends to identify indications that it's niggerfying
>visit the local supermarkets to assess its businesses and clientele to identify indications that it's niggerfying
>buy in an area that's gentrifying

Cause:
>an airport opens up next door
Mitigation:
>see second and third points

Seriously how does this happen?

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I assume you live in Perth or Sydney. I live in brissy, just bought a house for $415k which is 20 mins from the city. It's in a wonderful area with a street full of families, and the house at the end of the street was last sold for over a million. In the neighbouring block, the houses average over $1.4MM each. Brisbane is the last remaining refuge of reasonable pricing in Australia. We also just made the largest population increase in the country for 2016/2017, meaning more people are flocking here - particularly other Aussies. It's indicative that:
>firstly, people are realising that it's cheap and nice to live here
>secondly, this will be changing soon

If you're in a position to acquire investment properties now and hold them for the next 10 years, QLD will probably provide the biggest ROI in my assessment.

agreed. Is this on the south side? I know of a suburb where ugly shitboxes cost 1mil it's crazy

>Buying a house is an investment
It's worst thing you can do with your money. Literally. If I knew then, what I know now, I would have never done it at the point I did.

If the house cost is more then 1/10th of your money, dont do it.
If you need a loan to get it, DONT DO IT.

Basicly you only buy house when you need it because wife. Its like a car. You buy it if you absolutely need it. Else, you dont.

That money that you put in a mortgage could have been invested in the stock market

Real estate is going long RE and short bonds. Good bet after a recession, bad bet after a long bull market

Yep, south side.
Northern suburbs have those shitholes for 1mil, it is absolutely crazy - just like how those delapidated houses with broken floors and caved in rooves sell for 2mm and then 2.5mm three months later in Sydney.

I moved from Perth, and it's just insane. Perth has the filthiest shitholes in shitty areas packed with shitty centrestink folk who pollute the entire populace with crime and vagrancy, and yet these crack-corrupted, asbestos infested, termite swarming, poo smeared pissbuckets still manage to sell for $500k.

In Brissy, I assess that in some suburbs, houses are approximately half the cost of houses in Perth when you consider
>what they are (bedroom/bathroom/brick/roofing)
>land size
>gentrification of area
>proximity to public transport, education centres, the CBD, shopping districts, the coast, entertainment precincts and parks

Every property investor in Perth I've spoken to has, quote, explained that they are currently in "Hell". This is because they've acquired property for $850,000 which has """depreciated""" to $570,000. This """depreciation""" is actually a healthy, natural correction - where cashed-up mining bogans no longer have the disposable income to buy whatever the fuck they want.

I knew it was going to come crashing down when "Holden Commodores" and "Jet Skis" became the most popular for-sale item on local marketplaces.

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Or the landlord defaulted on his loan and disappeared in 2009

furthermore, public transport in brisbane is very well planned as it is quite a new city. There are plenty of massive development schemes atm and if they get successfully built bris is going to be very different in 10 years.

>That money that you put in a mortgage could have been invested in the stock market

No, because then I'd have no place to live so I'd have to rent. Only the down payment could have been invested.

test -- is this board even working.

So much ignorance in this thread. I'm a real estate professional with over 10 years in the biz, ask me anything.

Ill start off with the general basic rule of thumb that if you are going to live in one place, one home for greater than 5 years, it's better financially to buy than rent. This comes with some basic assumptions: you're in the US, you're getting a mortgage, you'd buy a similar home as you would rent and they are at the current market prices.

There seems to be an assumption here that landlords never lose money. This is false, many landlords are idiots, inherited the property or don't fully account for expenses. The greatest unaccounted loss factors for landlords are vacancy, management (you're hassle factor has a true cost) depreciation and unexpected repairs. There is also the risk of a vindictive tenant who purposefully destroys the property.

The best areas to rent as a tenant are the highest value areas, as rental rates can never keep up with prices and therefore renting is a better 'deal'. As a landlord, slightly above lower class areas are the best areas to rent, as rents can meet or exceed the homes value.

For example, the minimum cap rate for a rental home is generally 8%. (This assumes rents will appreciate similarly as home values, if you are playing the appreciation game, that's a different type of investment aka speculation).

In a lower income area, a home is worth 150k for example. Thus, an 8% cap rate means an NOI of 12k per year. Most landlords fuck up by saying well I guess I have to charge 1k per month, WRONG. You have to factor in repairs taxes ins etc which total roughly 25% of the rent, plus another 5% for vacancy. This a 150k home needs to rent for roughly $1400/mo. This is reasonable for that home price in the market.

In contrast a 1mil home by the same assumptions would have to rent for $9,350/mo. This generally not possible, as people with that much to spend will not rent for long.

yearly price of "owning" a home in Land of The Free™

>pay $30,000 mortgage
>pay $10,000 property tax
>pay $6,000 electricity/water
>pay $5,000 maintenance/repairs
>pay $4,000 HOA fees
>pay $3,000 home insurance
>pay $15,000 health insurance
>pay $10,000 student loans
>pay $10,000 pension you will never live to see
>miss a payment? go homeless

>be freedumb loving Texan
>own an overvalued home
>tax assessor is corrupt
>pay 2000 a month in property taxes for a home that should be close to 1000
>have many sleepless nights about what do
>be living paycheck to paycheck

I owe over 200k in student debt, im stuck making around 60k for the next 4 years.
just end my life senapi

Based, screencapped. Can you wax lyrical on buying to live in, since you've covered rental properties? I know you've touched on this but care to elaborate?

I basically am. I moved country and decided to keep my house for when I return. Rent I get is less than total holding costs. Rental market is pretty shit in Australia where it's located. Used to fetch $430 per week, now it's $340. It's essentially subsidized, rather than an income earner.

True. I bought my house for 159k 2 years ago. Comps in the area are going for 195k with no updates. I've put down modern flooring, updated the kitchen etc...

Im going to get at least 215k on my house when I sell it in a year or two and ill hve built up 100k + in equity from aggressively making payments.

Going to have a cool 150k+ to put down on a pad in Florida.

The only one of those required is property taxes which is better than 'communist' china which you never own but only lease from the gov. Pension, student loans have nothing to do with property.

Sounds like you made some poor decisions. If your being over assessed you can appeal the tax value, only takes paperwork and maybe a 500$ appraisal.

To buy to live in the rule of thumb is no more than 4x gross income of the household but you're always better off living with less. What else do you want to know?

>The best areas to rent as a tenant are the highest value areas, as rental rates can never keep up with prices and therefore renting is a better 'deal'. As a landlord, slightly above lower class areas are the best areas to rent, as rents can meet or exceed the homes value.
Best advice this board has seen in months. Based

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>get assraped by mortgage
>get assraped by property taxes
>get assraped by speculative bubbles
>get assraped by demographic replacement of formerly white hoods
>get assraped by utilities
>get assraped by HOAs
>get assraped by contractors
>get assraped by student loans
>get assraped by health insurance

the crapitalist system makes the Soviet system look like utopia in comparison

>free housing, free education, free healthcare
>no mortgage
>no property tax
>no utility fees
>no bubbles
>no contractors
>no demographic replacement
>no HOAs

i want USSR back!

mortgage on a $500k house is $3k a month = $36k/yr + $10k property tax + $10k expenses =
$70k yr
you hold it for 5yrs = $350k
thats $850k
you sell for $1mill, your profit is $100k (after tax)

Yeah the housing is cheap but the city will tax you up the ass and issue a lot of bullshit citations so the city can get a stable income.

except there were no property taxes in USSR/Iron Curtain and people owned houses/apartments or were given one for free with no bullshit mortgage payments, property tax or utility fees

paying for bogus fees to offset artificial risk mandated by a mafia is outright banditry

You were guaranteed housing in USSR/Iron Curtain, unlike US where the system guarantees homelessness

Well under capitalism you need to wait 30 years to pay off a home. You spend more on food than you do on shelter

I talked to people who lived in Communist Ukraine and he said that before if you worked, you were guaranteed food, shelter, etc. This made people willing to make families.

Now under Capitalist Ukraine people gradually get poorer and poorer every year while the rich get richer and richer. People are not breeding anymore because they're too poor to, they don't have the resources anymore. I see the same thing happening here in America, people aren't breeding anymore because they're poor and they know it.

You dont understand how it works. You pay CAPITAL GAINS tax if your profit on the home is above 250k (single) 500k (married)

And again, the tax is only on the profit of the sales. So let's say 25% of 500k

125k in taxes. BUT, You still get the 350k in equity you built.

1,000,000-150,000(taxes)-320,000(outstanding balance on mortgage) = $530,000

Yes, owning a home is 100% a boomer meme. A rent payment is the most you'll ever pay each month...your mortgage payment is the bare minimum you'll pay.

>but muh equity!
The first several years you're paying mostly interest. If you want to move within 5 years you've likely lost money due to closing costs, etc.
>but muh tax deduction!
Not anymore, faggot. With tax reform the standard deduction that EVERYONE gets is going to be more than your mortgage interest and property tax.

Buying a home is literally buying a boomer's bags.

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you missed deducting the expenses paid after 5 yrs
>mortgage on a $500k house is $3k a month = $36k/yr + $10k property tax + $10k expenses = $70k yr
>you hold it for 5yrs = $350k

1,000,000
-150,000(taxes)
-320,000(outstanding balance on mortgage)
-350,000 (expenses for 5 yrs)

$180,000

How do you get 350k in expesnes over 5 years?

Your costs are WAY OFF.
>$12,000 morgate
>$5,000 property tax
>$2,400 utilities
>$3,000 maintainence
>$0 HOA fees
>$800 home insurance
The others have nothing to do with owning a home
Miss a payment get a $20-50 late fee

>not buying a comfy condo in a big city

factor in property tax, repairs, HOA, insurance, utilities, mortgage payments etc...

student loans, health insurance, pension funds etc all factor in the ability to make home payments... this is common knowledge

Eat a bullet soviet scum

>mortgage on a $500k house is $3k a month = $36k/yr + $10k property tax + $10k expenses =
$70k yr
>36 + 10 + 10 = 70

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>$12,000 morgate
found the detroit ghetto dweller

your ghetto shacks dont count.

monthly mortgage cost for a house in a relevant area costs atleast $2000, which is $24,000

move to a decent white upper middle class neighborhood before you shitpost

They don't factor into any of my considerations for owning a home
>No student debt
>Health insurance through job
>401K with work matching
>I don't have an HOA and my old HOA was $100 a year

Mortgage payment isn't an expense as you get most of it back after the sale of the house.

None of those other things will get you close to that number.

aren't we at all time high real estate prices in North America and Europe right now though? Wouldn't this be the definition of buying at the top? Something's gotta give sooner or later, prices can't inflate forever.

Living an a upper middle class brand new neighborhood in a house that I had built across the street from an elementary school
All the costs where annual so that is $12000 annual mortgage costs
I put $100,000 down from crypto gains

Spending $70k/yr on a $500k home is realistic. It depends on what type of mortgage you get as well as your property tax, maintenance, utilities

Unless your renting an absolute shit hole or living with a bunch of people to save it's totally worth it

I pay $900 a month for this.

Midwestern college town. I never see any black people in my neighborhood

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You deduct the mortgage payments to get profit. You are tricking yourself into thinking you made bank, when in reality, it was a measly couple grand.

>implying you ever own it
try not paying property tax and see if you still own it

That's standard for living in barrio.
Oklahoma isnt white. its beaner central.

How is this not a fucking bubble when everyone is doing this? It's got to correct again soon when 22 year olds are trying to flip homes

>There's nothing like that. Paying off the loan is always the best option. Always.
learn how interest rates work

This. Anyone thinking they made bank by selling a home for double the amount needs to learn basic accounting.

Hush goyim. Capitalism guarantees you the illusion of owning a home

as long as you can fit 30 mates into one house, you'll be alright.

the issue with crapitalism is the crapitalist is preoccupied with offloading the burden of enslavement onto the next goy. the entire society is built on a pyramid of offloading enslavement onto someone else.

instead of having stable shelter with no risk, the crapitalist allocates risk into living necessities (shelter, food, etc) that is burdened onto the renter. the entire system is preoccupied by transferring risk to others.

the communist model does not allocate risk into living necessities (shelter etc..) and guarantees a stable shelter, food, and frees the population from preoccupation of risk and fear.

with the emancipation from preoccupation of risk allocation of the crapitalist system, the communist population focuses on solving space colonisation and real world issues, instead of the basic shelter issues

>tfw living in mommies basement rent free with $230K in cash waiting for the housing bubble to crash

>flyover states

Can we please disregard the irrelevant shitholes. The coasts are America. Any discussion regarding anything is focused on the California and the East Coast by default. Irrelevant states have flyover no place in these discussions

>2 000 000 house
>1-5% yoy increase
>expenses zero income

>2 000 000 dividend portfolio
>12-50% yoy increase
>90 000 tax free passive income

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some countries can just let more foreigners move there to buy houses if demand fails

from January 2000 to July 2006, during Bush NWO leader's Housing Bubble, home prices surged 900%

Avg price of house around 1998 before globalisation and free-trade went full swing
>$180k in NYC (boros)
>$170k in SF
>$150k in LA
>$120k in DC
>$140k in Sydney
>$120k in Melbourne
>$140k in Toronto
>$130k in Vancouver
>£50k in London

Avg price of house after 2004 massive free-trade/open-borders
>$800k in NYC (boros)
>$1m in SF
>$600k in LA
>$500k in DC
>$900k in Sydney
>$700k in Melbourne
>$600k in Toronto
>$1m in Vancouver
>£1m in London
---------------------------------------------------------
before free trade:
>domestic production of goods
>goods were affordable and of high quality
>lowest cost of living
>affordable housing (house costs only 2 times the annual salary)
>90% white

after free trade:
>homeless/opiod/suicide epidemic/white genocide
>unemployment
>highest cost of living
>unaffordable housing (10-20 times the annual salary)
>plummeting life expectance
>shit quality products that kill you
>millions of illegal shitskin locusts invading and killing whites