/social democrat general/

look at this dude...
wait till you see it. OH NO NO NO NO NO....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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>in reality we support gradual reform instead of sperging out and discrediting the movement for a generation
I think European social democracy has discredited itself far better than communists could have done for it since the end of the cold war. In Britain especially. Social democracy as a reformist path to socialism is completely dead.

What do you think how many people there are eager to stand in line for 3 hours to get a loaf of bread again?

Trotsky is drasically preferable to Leninists and Stalinists who sperged out and discredited everything.

I understand desu. Ultimately I would have sided with the Left SRs and stayed seperate from the Bolshies.

Apparently millions of people in other ex commie countries feel that way.

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Leninism is far closer to Trotsky than Stalin, you know.

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Imo the best path is a two pronged attack. I never understood why people behaved as if reformist and revolutionary activities are mutually exclusive. You can infiltrate a bourgeois government while also pressuring it from the outside to facilitate reforms, and sympathetic elements within the state can facilitate revolution.

In a sense yes, many modern European social democratic parties turned to the third way championed by Tony Blair because it was easy. What I'm advocating for is a return to the genuine social democracy before the third way was a thing.

This is true, which is why I believe the social democratic movement needs to be revived away from the "third way" bullshit figures like Blair took it.

That's not too bad. Decent short term praxis, at the very least.

More specifically I think that a worker’s party ought to condition its behaviour according to the strength of the economy. During periods of relative prosperity they should focus on movement building, and establishing good relations with the workers by consistently advocating for progressive reforms in their interests. However in periods of capitalist crisis/depression, they should ramp up revolutionary activity and push for even stronger reforms, and if possible, aiming to secure power. Also I think a good strategy is to gain power through an election, and deliberately stoke a violent counterrevolution of the kind that killed Allende, except actually be ready for it, and use it as justification to accelerate towards socialism. The main key is to make use of all available tools, both legitimate and illegitimate.

Based
>American education

>after 10s of millions of dead and a quarter of the earth plunged into poverty, some people are still unironically socialists

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Good thread. I voted for Sinn Féin desu

Objectively speaking most countries experience improvements in their standards of living upon adopting socialism. They never really caught up to the west, but they were typically better off than they were before. As far as deaths go, capitalism is easily as deadly, if not worse.

Good thread, bump.

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Ultimately I believe working towards a direct democracy is the best way to achieve socialism, in the West at least, in the short term encouraging workers democracy/co-operatives etc. is the best way to demolish the state in the long term.

Based.

How can we save the movement from itself?

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right-Populism will dominate europe

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Do you think soccdem can solve the exploitation of employees by their employers? Because to me, it still seems that social democracy has no economic democracy, for the control of the economy is still held by the bourgeoisie, rather than the workers.

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>right-Populism will dominate europe
Everything has it's time in the sun.

Purge the libs.

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more like social-traitors

I don't believe it is a thing socdem by itself can solve. Socdem in alliance with a strong trade union movement can I think, the problem is declining union membership in the UK and USA is a problem while in most of Europe it's remained fairly high.

Commies sperging out is why we're in this position, don't blame socdems.

Unironically this.

Good thread.

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How do we make America a social democracy?

Electing Berne would have been a good start, but your Democratic Party is arguably worse than the GOP for being totally awful so there is that in the way.

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We really can't, socdem works only with the population being both culturally and economically homogeneous.

I wish we had a Labor party in the US. In Australia before the global "centrist" wave in the 1980's, the Labor party was directly controlled by the trade unions.

Idea for a socdem motto: "We must secure the existence of people and a future for children."

I actually don't blame BernieBros going for Trump after the way the Dems treated Bernie to be honest, fuck the Clintons they are a bigger problem than the Trumps.

He was a commie, he celebrated his honeymoon in the soviet union.

If you want a good social democrat party look at the swedish one before the 60s. It was a party actually consisting of working class people.

It's a shame the DSA are full on cringe and not old school union types who we could all support.

I'm not overly familiar with the Swedish situation I'll be honest, all I know is in the 90s they Swedish SDP jumped aboard the liberalisation bandwagon.

>by voting our meme person into government we can make our state socialistic and porky will eventually go elsewhere :) and also equality haha yes
this is what socdems actually believe

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No in the 80s, in the 90s we had an economic crash because of the SDPs policies and speculation on our currency. Until the 70s we were a low tax country witha small government and it worked really well but then they got very ideological and shit.

>by sperging out and starting a violent revolution we totally won't scare everyone away :) and the dictator will provide haha
this is what commies actually believe

>kill people I disagree with
and this is why socialism needs to be banned

Out of curiosity why do socdems use the rose as a symbol?

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It became popular after World War II with centre-left parties in Europe and spread from there. The UK Labour Party for example replaced their traditional red flag symbol with a rose after WWIII.

Scum of the earth the whole lot

t. socialdemocrat pro

>not understanding the difference between murder and kicking someone out of a political party
>swedish """""education"""""

Always thought it was because of Rosa Luxemburg, but idk