Are there any positives to the trade war?

Our steel exports are our governments main worry in the upcoming trade war.
And we're basically the only real ally you still have in the EU.
And we import more than we export to the USA.

And the USA would need to build entirely new facilities that won't be finished until Trump is long gone to be able to produce our high grade products.

He’s going to hurt our industry more than China's though.
I’m not even entirely opposed to some tariffs but the way he’s done it was completely clueless.

The US has raw goods, technology, and infrastructure to be fully self sufficient.

Any queer making drama over it is a hysterical partisan.

Yes and steel goes in kind of a lot of products.
Best case scenario, this could mean a few more steel mill jobs at the expense of thousands of other manufacturing jobs.

You don't understand how the modern economy works. Things are cheaper in the US today than they ever have been, mostly due to offshoring.

t. believes everything Breitbart tells him

>If we outsource all our jobs and offshore all our manufacturing than everything will be cheaper
>who cares if americans don't have money anymore to buy anything, it'll be cheap!

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Here in our cunt they make a special kind of steel that American companies use to make cans from. There is no other cunt who makes that steel because not much is needed. It a novelty thing. The American cans are now 25% more expensive for everyone down the chain. Are you guys also tired of winning?

I do, you people just bitch over giving up everything in the country for things to be a little cheaper.

We haven't really lost everything though, the jobs have just shifted away from manufacturing. We a service and consumerism economy now, and trumpkins don't understand that.

Since the US has been trending more and more towards being a service economy for a while now (if it ain't already there), cheaper goods and resources are necessary to maintain jobs and job growth in the service industry.
Yeah, you can try to bring manufacturing back stateside and get some manufacturing jobs back, but it'll be at the expense of much much more service type jobs since higher prices mean less consumer spending which translates into less growth or even contraction in the service industry.

>How dare they take away our shitty manufacturing jobs! How dare they provide Americans a better palate of jobs to choose from, ones where i'm not slaving away in a manufacturing plant!

And don't forget Canadian/Mexican/EU companies will also go to China

Of course. America could even close its borders completely and still survive no problem. But why though? Tariffs just make everyone who consumes the tariffed products poorer.

Yeah it's stupid bullshit like saving a few dollars on a t-shirt that helped China to become the monster it is today.
if we were only just willing to spend a few more dollars on goods we wouldn't be in this crises.
But nope we had to buy dumb plastic toys for a 1$ cheaper from China.

Consumerism economy fucked our country up as we had no longer a way to really make money from other countries. Things came in but nothing really comes out.

b&rp

our cunt is more than big enough to have ample room for both. you only need to look at UK vs Germany to see that a service economy is not necessarily "better" than a manufacturing based one. i think trump's tariffs don't far enough. we need to block all goods from entering our cunt and produce them locally. trade with other cunts for what we need versus what we want

>A job working at Ford making 20$ an hour with full benefits is worse than a job at mcdonalds making 8$ an hour with shitty benefits.

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>And don't forget Canadian/Mexican/EU companies will also go to China
They've been going to china for a while now. In fact Euros were gloating about it for the past 4 years.

>Let's make Americans richer by driving up their cost of living.

>trade war will be most harmful to people voting for Trump
That is the point. Beijing and Brussels are designing higher tolls on exactly those American exports that will harm Trump's voter base the most. Even things that the average Trump voter loves the most, like Harley-Davidson etc.

>Baby first realisation that developped countries are based on services

If China becomes richer they'll also be able to purchase more goods. Which in turn also makes Americans richer.

But the problem is that there is no equal playing field. In that regard he's right to throw up some tariffs towards China.

But Europe has always played fair with the USA. And the European and American tariffs were around the same level. It's just that American car companies never bothered to make quality products that suited the European market.

your wages are rising and your employment is up. all this while nothing has changed since this 'outsourcing meme' existed from the 70's.

outsourcing is an efficient market capitalist system, the same system you Americans pride yourself on having. what are you? a fucking commie socialist?

All things being said, I cannot see this turning out poorly for Trump.
He can blame the other countries for not being fair with trading, their fault his voters are negatively affected, and they'll whole-heartedly buy it. He can blame the Democrats for not playing ball and obstruction. They'll buy it. It's how he won his election. Blaming other parties for non-existent faults that he'll fix. And Hillary's still not in prison.

the problem is the chinese cheat and they use their surplus to build up their military to bully other cunts in asia. why would we continue funding this. i fully agree that europe and canada aren't the problem though. but no one is taking the lead against china

>Those jobs still exist, just in different sectors dumb ass. Software development is considered a service job. A mechanic who makes $22/hr like my father is a service position.

We really don't. Anything domestic would be quickly ran out of business from the foreign importers. Unless of course, you want to make that impossible with tariffs and consequently damage the economy serverly

>to the people who voted for him

White people?

Politicians that lead the European Union are a bunch of unelected weaklings, that never take a stance on countries outside of the union.
The politicians that lead individual countries, see approaching China with a fist as an European issue. And on a national level they have zero interest in opposing China.

Repeat after me: "makes libs mad"

The manufacturing jobs were taken away, more service jobs only appeared due to different technology, nothing shifted.

Independence from the rest of the world.

It's funny seeing people boast about how China will grow more powerful than the US with the policies they scold in the US.

>Politicians that lead the European Union are a bunch of unelected weaklings
Who are you referring to?

>Independence from the rest of the world.
I have nothing to gain from this. It just hurts me and the people in my country.

>Who are you referring to?

To all of them, quite clearly.

The European Commission. That let themselves be played by Putin, Erdogan, North African nations, economic migrants and now Trump.
Forcing (for us foreign) politicians like Merkel or Macron to deal with it instead.

Merkel and Macron choose the European Commission.

>Software dev
H1B and outsourcing.
In fact many tech jobs are getting outsourced or lost to H1B's.

So we have no tech industry(for americans) and no manufacturing jobs. I guess all thats left is McDonalds and a few lucky people who can get blue collar work. But then again your dad beating on cars doesn't help this country on an international level.

Are you American? The wealth won't be stripped away from the country as well as other countries not being able to threaten it economically.

Like North Korea?

And Merkel represents what? 30% of Germany?

>H1b
They're working in America though right? Which means that they pay taxes?

>losing your job is ok so long as someone who is temporary in the country is paying taxes.

The Prime Minister of the Netherlands represents 21% of the Netherlands. And he gets to pick for all of us.

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Yeah, magatards and other americans will lose all their shit and become dirt poor

>Politicians that lead the European Union are a bunch of unelected weaklings
>The European Commission
Every member of the Commission is appointed by the national governments
t. not american

The US isn't a tiny country with few arable land, low resources and around stronger countries threatening it.

You do know that our government is formed, handpicked by politicians, and not elected.

But you don't lose your job, they're getting paid the same amount. There isn't enough software developers in America to fill the demand

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That's a problem in your country (or a problem of representative democracy in general), not of the EU per se

They stmulate local businesses especially manufacturing so create jobs.
The US is already experiencing it.
bbc.com/news/business-44736670

I like their microprocessors. Shut up Bart.

So you have a bunch of unelected people, the result of negotiations, picking unelected people, also the result of negotiations.

Okay, but I still fail to see why having our cost of living artificially raised is supposed to be good for us. Other nations can only threaten us if they want to harm themselves as well.

Who cares about some microprocessors.

>Who cares about some microprocessors.
t.Consoletard

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It's not only the case in my country. It's the case in the majority of Europe I believe.
The European Commission barely owes any responsibility to the people.
In fact, the Dutch and French people voted against the European constitution when they did get voice their opinion for once.

The entire world revolves around computers and the internet you dingus.

Cuts to taxes and regulations are more to thank for that.

It will hurt EU/USA relations, and that's a good thing.

Coal is the future

I repeat, it's a problem with representative democracy, not a fault of the EU

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Which is why it's fucked. I cannot go anywhere because everybody sits on their fucking phone 24/7. Train, bus, dentist, everywhere.

Fuck yes! Steam trains with wifi on it!

t. Seattle cuck from California

I make aircraft parts for a living.

It is the fault of the EU. Because they could've set the whole deal up in a different way if they wanted. They could've set it up like any other European government. With the parliament having the right of initiative (to propose laws). And the government being elected by the parliament. They could have European parties you could vote for, instead of 95% of the EU being nameless foreigners that don't even represent your part of the union. There are countless ways they could've made it more democratic, but they didn't. Instead they - intentionally - kept the European government as far away from the people as possible. And now they cry because people don't think it's democratic and reject the union.

I don't. Don't even have a smartphone because of no friends. And you fags are my social media.

Automation and not globalization is the chief culprit for the waning of manufacturing employment. That is, fewer people are needed to produce the same amount of goods due to higher efficiency and so fewer jobs are available in the sector. One of the reasons people who lose their manufacturing job are relegated to minimum wage service jobs is skill mismatch. This is why affordable retraining programs and higher education are all the more important when low-skill work is being automated.

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>With the parliament having the right of initiative (to propose laws)
I agree, the parliament should have more power
>They could have European parties you could vote for, instead of 95% of the EU being nameless foreigners that don't even represent your part of the union
Agree as well, although most of the time national governments have no interest to form transnational parties as they would lose their relevance and the EU is a good scapegoat. Some parties are planning pan-EU alliances (over the simple Eurogroups) for the elections next year

I think in general the EU gets criticized every time it tries to become more relevant and every time it has no power on certain matters

You must be a minority. The majority are children on their iPhones gargling chips while touching the bus with their dirty fucking fingers blasting shitty rap music with their backpack occupying the seat next to them because they're a bunch of autistic fucks who are scared of the mere possibility of someone sitting next to them. And there's like 100 of them in this overcrowded shithole. And then people ask me why I'm so miserable.

Then what do you do when higher education jobs get outsourced or automated?
Besides if all working americans got higher education jobs there still wouldn't be enough jobs for them.

>I think in general the EU gets criticized every time it tries to become more relevant and every time it has no power on certain matters
That's only logical. The EU is incompetent, so want to get rid of them. If you want to make the EU competent, they need more power. But as long as they can't even do the job they are assigned to now there is no reason to trust them with more responsibilities.

Uneducated white people who work wage jobs and don’t understand the modern world.
Don’t worry they won’t have jobs for very long.

That is a manufacturing job that makes products for companies, not consumers. Airliners don't sell planes to people, they sell a service, which is flying. You are an essential part of that business model. It can't be compared to a clothing company who sells products directly to the end consumer. Do you work at that huge Boeing factory?

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t. Starbucks barista

Some companies will be able to outsell tariffed companies without having to lower production costs or offering better products, which hurts consumers. Unless they too rely on imported goodto produce national goods - kin which case everyone takes a hit.

It’s weird to me that Trumptards think this will help American manufacturing.
With just a basic knowledge of industry you can see this will cost a lot of manufacturing jobs.

>because they're a bunch of autistic fucks who are scared of the mere possibility of someone sitting next to them
The social skills from those people are pathetic. Even if they go to a club they are sitting in the corner with their phone. Love watching it.

The wealth will stay in the US which will bring more investment.

It's beyond the jobs, manufacturing itself was lost and people are still against bringing it back.

You know what I meant.
The entire European Council (elected heads of state of the entire EU) chooses the President of the Commission (based on the results of the EU-wide democratic European parliament elections), and every country elects their own Commissioner and puts them in charge of a portfolio.

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-4027_en.htm
europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-4220_en.htm
theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/01/eu-starts-retaliation-against-donald-trumps-steel-and-aluminium-tariffs

Think the Commissioner for Trade does a fair bit of taking a stance against the USA and China while being diplomatic and not sabotaging future relations.

Commission has nothing to do with the Constitution. The constitution was rejected, by the way, and never implemented. The Lisbon Treaty functions as a replacement for that and every single legal scholar can agree it's not a constitution.
But of course. I can already see by the way you've argued that you'll, yet again, find a way to move the goalposts, or use classic Jow Forums (((LEGAL SCHOLARS)))

>With the parliament having the right of initiative
It does, technically. Otherwise it is one of the most important actors in passing and deciding the form of legislation.
>the government being elected by the parliament.
First, the Commission isn't in any way a "government".
But the Commission is voted on and vetted by the Parliament and there are legal procedures in place for them to be voted out of office in a vote of no confidence.
>They could have European parties you could vote for
You can vote for your national MEP representatives, who will belong to a European party bloc.

You're incredibly, grossly uninformed about all of this, you know. Like you've never made an effort to learn about how the EU functions and just repeat disinfo PVV and FVD pub-tier talking points.

The EU was basically set up for failure by design by the people who created it.

A lot of American wealth comes from other parts of the world, you do understand that right?

Oh yeah, thank god we have competent national governments

What the fuck are you doing America?

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He also doesn’t understand the central point here: it’s going to drastically raise the cost of manufacturing in the US because Trumo taxes materials and parts, not shit made overseas that we buy in the store (consumer goods).
I’m not opposed to raising some tariffs against China, but he’s done it the worst possible way. American manufacturers need these goods to employ Americans.
What’s going to happen is, a lot of Trump voters are going to lose their jobs when their factories shut down.
And I’ve not heard a single refutation of this from a Trump supporter. Just the same tired automated responses they give to anyone who doesn’t think Trump is infallible.

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No, not for Boeing directly. We're a supplier for all the big names. Specialize in actuators for stuff like wing flap controls and sensors, etc, but we'll do unrelated job shop contracts (parts made to spec that we don't do any R&D on) for them if we've got machines that need running.

>The entire European Council (elected heads of state of the entire EU) chooses the President of the Commission (based on the results of the EU-wide democratic European parliament elections), and every country elects their own Commissioner and puts them in charge of a portfolio.
Oh yeah, the representative of your nation gets a portfolio. Here you go Germany, you're now all about exchange students. We'll handle the rest.

The Lisbon Treaty is just a way to weasel the constitution in without calling it a constitution.
I still remember how they removed political symbols, like the flag, and put them in footnotes, so it wouldn't be a constitution anymore.

>It does, technically. Otherwise it is one of the most important actors in passing and deciding the form of legislation.
No they don't. They can only ask the European Commission to propose something. That's just as democratic as having to beg to Kim Jung Un to propose something.
>First, the Commission isn't in any way a "government".
They are the executive power of the union, which is the government.

>You can vote for your national MEP representatives, who will belong to a European party bloc.
Yeah, the majority of the members of that block never had to campaign in the Netherlands or even had to think about our interests. Do you hear Dutch politicians in the EU defending the interests of Greece? I don't think so.

My understanding is that America has been haemorrhaging money to China and Europe for decades. What else could America do to rebalance trade?

Even the proposed free-trade deals would still have been lopsided in favour of China and the EU (something like EU gets $100 million more in trade compared to US's $80 million).

And it makes the US dependent on other countries.

>I wanna bring back more blue-collar factory jobs to America
>I know: I’ll tax the shit out of all the stuff we need to support manufacturing jobs in America!
It was so dumb it could have only come from Trump

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