DJT - Daily Japanese Thread #2020

You're not polish.

i cant think of any reason

Unlike this anime, you have shoulders that allow your arms to flex at will..

>understood like 1/3 of what was being said
That sounds impressive enough, if you aren't exaggerating.

For listening practice anime are great. Keep watching and your skills will improve naturally.
Seriously, the JLPT hearing examinations are a joke for anyone watching anime.
Watch more than just anime, though. And if it's 実況者 on Youtube.

I'd remember that some of them have probably been studying far longer then 2.5 years, so it's reasonable that you're not as good at them, or they're NEETs who can study 8 hours a day every day. There's no point in comparing yourself to others, just compare yourself to who you were a week, month or year ago.

Because you still have 2/3rds of the way to go.

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俺らはお前にいつか日本語が出来るようになるって自信を持たせてみせる

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Thank you btw. I couldn't find anything because I was searching for しての. Seems like I need to improve my jisho skills.

I'm currently using the Core10k sentences deck and reading through the Pomax introduction to Japanese grammar. Can I learn Japanese?

I'm more motivated than past attempts because I'm actually going to Japan in a little over 3 months.

Can you? Sure. Will you? That's up to you.

That being said, 3 months is very short to learn Japanese, so without knowing your base knowledge, I'd say not by then.

>Can I learn Japanese?
as long as you arent like every other american who complains about kanji being "too hard" yes

Well I have been watching anime for a decade, with a few half-hearted attempts to learn along the way.

At moment I think listening is my strongest point - vocab would be second because a few years ago I spent some time with Kotoba-chan going through words up to N3. But of course I missed the crucial part which is actually remembering what the kanji itself is like rather than just the vocab.

Grammar would be the weakest point for me; I feel like I can hear something and know what everything means but not get the gist because I'm fucked over by my lack of understanding of tenses and particles and all that.

You can't learn in 3 months. With that being said, because you're going very soon, I'd focus much of your time with a travel phrase book.

Ah, I don't mean completely learn the language in that time. That is expecting too much. That is just my motivation right now. I made a short trip there a month ago and I mostly got by with people saying things to me in Japanese, and me either mustering up a basic reply or just speaking back in English.

I didn't really have any problems getting by, but that was in Tokyo and everything was well signposted. Even when things weren't (like in Toranoana - why are the Aikatsu doujins on the pick-up floor?), staff at places were pretty helpful, though slightly bewildered.

Mainly I would like to be able to actually read what is going on instead of just being limited to the basics.

>Well I have been watching anime for a decade
This means nothing unless you've been doing it without subtitles.

>I missed the crucial part which is actually remembering what the kanji itself is like rather than just the vocab.
>Mainly I would like to be able to actually read what is going on instead of just being limited to the basics.
Sounds like your focus should be kanji then. Having a strong grasp of kanji will speed up the rest of your learning, though 3 months is a bit short to get a strong grasp. If you try very hard, you could do RtK in 2 months, which would likely get you up to where you need to be with kanji skills, but that only leaves a month to really get down vocab, so you might want to just study vocab, making sure to go from kanji->hiragana and definition(preferably in Japanese, but otherwise in English)

Don't bother with the sentences pack, it just makes you lazy.

I often had sleep problems, but constantly reading makes me tired and lets me sleep at night, yay
ちなみに、お休みなさい

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How so? I would have thought that getting something in the full context would help with remembering everything (meaning, reading, grammar reinforcement with the sentences, listening with the answers, etc).

Because doing it like that is sorta kinda like cheating. In the way that you think you're gonna get the full package and get it all by having the sentence there in your head, in reality you're only getting the crust off your cake. Because a sentence does not teach you grammar but rather it teaches you how to "feel" a certain aspect of a word or particle, it's actually less useful to mine those instead of words because, at least at your level, you're not advanced enough to make use of or notice the subtleties presented in the sentence that you otherwise would at say late level N3 or above.

In most cases it's safer to simply learn things in pieces. You could use your pack and study how the particles affect words (if the sentences are complex enough) or how words are used in different contexts instead. Simply memorizing at this point is largely detrimental and will just make you skip over the fundamentals, which are much more important in the long run if you hope to become proficient in this.

I've known a few who tried to mine sentences and honestly I didn't see any improvement. Of course if you just want to get good quickly in about 3 months then maybe that will work for you but I personally don't recommend it if you want to get serious about it. I did 100 words a day in Anki for about a month before I gave up (rep time got too long, missed one day and it all tumbled down), after that I realized that I should just enjoy my time with it and do it at a normal pace. Don't set yourself a goal that might stress you out, set yourself a goal that you know you can achieve, that's the most important thing in learning.

Also exercise 20 minutes every morning, helps a lot, just do it.

>alright, time to see if my reading is up to something already! Let's try a LN!
>10 minutes to decypher the first sentence, having to literally google every word

hahahaaaa-aaaa 殺してください

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How many words do you know?

>彼女[かのじょ]は 三[さん] 人[にん]の 子供[こども]の 母親[ははおや]だ。
This is the sentence for 三. Obviously the furigana isn't there until the card is turned.

I like it so far because in addition to what I am supposed to be learning, I also don't know the vast majority of the rest of the sentence. So then I can look up each kanji I don't know, get the stroke order, and write down a shitty copy to reinforce it in my mind.

Honestly I have no idea what would even constitute complex grammar at this stage but I'm sure it won't get there for a long time.

That is probably the worst card you could possibly use.
give rule 4 a read, supermemo predates anki:
supermemo.com/en/articles/20rules

But won't there come a point, when I do know all the words except for the target, where this will essentially match what that point is saying?

By anki's measurement: 3000 mature, 1000 young. Grammar is very weak though. (obviously)

The complex grammar would be something like, do you know why it's は instead of が. Do you know the difference between は and が, or do you know why の is used.
The sentence is also somewhat stiff so it could be rewritten as 彼女は三人の子供がいる。

You also mentioned how you don't know what the rest of the sentence means. Let's assume you don't know what 母親 means, you go on jisho, check it, write it down and when you next do the sentence you'll remember it.
Let's take 母親 out of that context now, things change a bit, since you're learning via context, you're using it as a didactic clutch of sorts, the moment it's taken out of the context it MAY just look like something completely different to you, or if you remember it somewhat others may look like it to you.
Take for example 待時特持 or 問間 or even 快決, what you're doing is you're going through a lot of new information very quickly which makes it very hard to register complex information in exchange for very rough, general information.

It is however, much better to learn kanji via compounds, because the general feel of a character in particular outweighs the ability to guess the meaning of compounds, much less read them correctly.

It's up to you, but I feel like you'd get more out of this if you went through Tae Kim (assuming you didn't already, otherwise go through the dictionary of grammar) and then took sentences apart instead of memorizing them.

Sounds like you're ready. You're gonna keep reading and not give up just because the first sentence was hard, right?

One correction I have to make, I take back the "complex grammar" note I made in the first sentence, what I wanted to say is "complex understanding of grammar", the grammar presented there is actually quite basic.

Don't fight me on the は or が bit though.

You seem to have made up your mind in sticking with those useless cards, so I bid you adieu

I haven't made up my mind; I just haven't seen a convincing argument for actually learning each kanji in isolation.

Yeah, I guess. It's too late at night to start reading now anyway. I also need to install whatever it is that allows you to quickly look up words on-screen.

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I'm not advocating for isolated kanji, just words. The only time a sentence should be on a card is an example one on the back, to satisfy rule #1.

That makes sense. Do you have a recommended deck for this?

Yeah, the core 2/6k optimized one in the guide.

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Yomichan for chrome.

Yomichan has * as a spacer and im not a fan but if I do a find and replace * with blank, that won't be interpreted as a wildcard and basically wipe all the meaning fields right?

上京 is another way to write 東京。What the fuck is this shit? I spent five minutes trying to figure out what the fuck that was.

Not him. I think phrases > words > sentences. If you know only random words it's hard to pick which one is right for the situation at hand because you won't know the subtleties of connotations. I don't see the point of entire sentences. It's too specific to get wide enough utility for the effort investment. Random words are okay because they enable you to understand shit. But if it's a phrase with like 2-3 words and a few grammatical structures you can probably piece together which word means what anyway.
I do manga. I can do about one volume a sitting (2-3 hours) now. It used to take me that long for a single chapter. I don't know, I think manga is better for learning because it's all dialogue, mostly. You don't speak in book lines, you speak in dialogue. If you want to learn how to speak and understand speech isn't it better? And in english at least, if you learned from books you'd be speaking an overly flowery, antiquated diction anyway. I'd expect Japanese to be the same, so you'd end up learning not how to speak modern casual japanese, but rather academic prose.

>上京 is another way to write 東京
check your dictionary again bro

That does not mean 東京。 It's more like 京に行く。

or 都に上がる, if sticking to the kanji

shame that core 2k/6k optimised doesn't meet basic criteria for good flash card design
like not having over 200 cards whose front is identical to another card's
within just the first 10 cards you'll see 四 twice with no way to differentiate which reading you're supposed to recall (and no way to check if an alternative reading is valid)
later you'll have fun guessing which of the four cards you're supposed to recall when you see 上がる
someone needs to fix that deck and reupload

Sure, that works too I guess, but really my main point is that you're better off learning things in bite-sized chunks as opposed to big constructions.

How would you fix it, without basically giving the answer away?

arguably in some cases like 七 there should just be one card with both readings listed in the answer, so you can check if you recalled either one of them
in other cases like 四 or 上がる you can have multiple cards but put something in brackets after the word to differentiate e.g. 「四 (as in 四月)」

Can anyone clear a doubt I have with japanese?
If I wanna ask for someones name and say
あなたの名前はなんですか? instead of お名前はなんですか?
is it incorrect or does it just sound weird?

>put off reps all day
>went to dinner with friends, had a couple drinks
>now have to do reps decently buzzed
Fuck this is gonna suck. Anyone have any sympathy?

For those I try to think of all that I can remember, and if the one on the card is in the ones that I could, then I pass it. It does have the effect of making those cards even stronger memories than most though.

How do I find a Japanese girlfriend who will teach me Japanese, let me fuck, and give me marriage visa to Japan?

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Grammatically correct but too straight.
Sounds like getting inquisition by foreign police or military who speak Japanese.

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I can't help you...

Can someone clarify the suspicion that I am with the Japanese? What's your name if someone asks you a name? What's your name?
Is it wrong or just sounds weird?

I can't decipher your Japanese.

He just wants to know the most appropriate way to ask for someone's name, and probably make it a bit more convoluted/polite than the shorter version.

It's not incorrect, but あなた is generally considered too stiff/rude if there is no need for the word to be there.

My opinion is that since the context makes it pretty clear who you are asking the name of, it shouldn't be used.

>For those I try to think of all that I can remember, and if the one on the card is in the ones that I could, then I pass it
one of the basic rules of flash card creation is to avoid sets
you are effectively trying to memorise a set, but it's even worse since the back of one card doesn't tell you enough information for you to know whether your other recalled answers were correct. e.g. maybe you just made up one of the readings/meanings but you also happened to get the one that's on the back, you think it's correct and this wrong recollection is reinforced

here's my RTK progress as of exactly one month. how am I doing lads? My retention is going down, I was safely at 85%+ but its been dipping.

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>learning useless irrelevant language because of muh cartoons

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how on earth are you doing 50+ new cards in less than an hour? it takes me about 3 minutes per new kanji to pick a good story and then do a couple of reviews where I physically write them out

日本語の勉強でもないのに4ちゃんに来てんのか?有意義な人生だな。

I think the page only counts time when you are actively in the anki window. I tab out to look at kanji koohii stories.

Honestly though I do only spend about an hour on 60 cards because I don't stop and pause on each one unless it's got a weird story I don't like. I don't pore over the stories too much, I just try to get something catchy and in my head and move on. That's probably why my retention is going down, there are many times where I completely blank on the story.

are you physically writing them? how many learning steps do you have for your new cards? I think I have 1, 5, 10 and 20 minutes. It's probably overkill but I maintain over 90% retention

>not a day skipped
I'm proud. But only if you're actually writing them.

Am I the only one who thinks cramming like 100 kanjis in one sittings is much more efficient than Anki's learning algorithms? I think anki is too slow and I think it is much easier to memorize a large number to death than small numbers with time

小鼻

VERY CUTE!!!!!

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yeah I'm writing them. keep in mind a took a week off adding new cards though, so i'm no saint.

the steps I do? I look at the keyword. then I look at the top kanji koohii story. if I think it seems reasonable, I take a few seconds to visualize it, write the kanji once or twice down, paying attention to stroke order. then I move on and hope I get the first review correct.

If the story is bad, I'll take a look at the heisig story (which is usually trash honestly) and then look through kanji koohii for better stories. If I still can't find one, I make one up myself.

I use the default steps. I think it's 1 10. If I learn a new card, I only need to review it once after and it turns into 1D interval.

My retention hovers at 85%, but sometmies 90%. lately, closer to 80%. we'll see if it's a pattern. I don't mind this because I already spend 2 hours doing rtk (1 hour reviewing, 1 hour learning) a day at this point. I don't mind failing more at this stage.

Cramming doesn't work for long-term retention.
gwern.net/Spaced-repetition

it does for me. especially if you keep on translating random kanjis from 2ch afterwards

Studying while drunk is great. If you can't speak japanese drunk you can't speak japanese. What are you gonna do if you go out drinking there?
Become a man a woman would actually want.

> especially if you keep on translating random kanjis

What's working there is the natural repetition, not the initial cramming. And natural repetition is not as efficient as Anki for uncommon words.

uncommon words you learn when reading books/manga. It's more efficient to first get the natural feeling of the language (shitposting and casual language) then afterwards expanding towards the peculiarities. Well at least I did that with italian

cringe

Your method will work, but it'll take an extremely long time to be able to read books without a dictionary. Anki in conjunction with reading and listening is undeniably the fastest way to free yourself from the dictionary.

smash that BUTTON

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Thank you for the heads-up
I didn’t mean it
Oh my bad Sorry

don't worry.

I wish I could help you out

助けて!私のちんぽ硬いです

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Please contact the urology
you silly

Just saw this on the news. Impressive!

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治してあげますよ

笑
Vielen Dank für die Hilfe

待っている

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>念仏を唱える
Could you can explain this phrase to me? I don't remember where I mined it

"You're only getting the crust off your cake" is a great phrase

I can't find a proper English word/expression

embarrassing me

I recite the meaning of respect to the deceased people and ancestors heartily.
南無阿弥陀仏or南無妙法蓮華経

Do you Unlike the intent of the question?

Chanting a prayer to Buddha.

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蟻が十、先生

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Which addons are you using for alll those stats?

true retention, heat map