How would your country have fought Vietnam?
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No because we are not American imperialists. Americans serve their empire of tyranny.
If I was in charge I would have pumped chlorine gas into the tunnels, all's fair in love and war.
Dropped a couple thermonuclear bombs on Hanoi.
Americans did that.
>pre 1945
all out genocide
>post 1945
not at all
with fire
Nah, too poor to have a strong military. We would probably get BTFO'd by fucking Liechtenstein.
Very homoerotically t b h f a m
holy shit a Nepal fag
I'll post for 3 entire countries to save you time
>France
Surrender
>USA
Surrender
>China
Surrender
Good, glad we got like ~2 billion people out of the way.
would have fought them with america and lose
should have just nuked the cunt
we were mostly successful with the areas we were given charge of 2bh
experiences in the jungles of malaya and all that
According to wikipedia, your dead:deployed ratio is 521:7672, which is 6.8%. Ours was 10.7%, South Korea (who sent more soldiers than you, actually) was 10.1%.
So yes, it does appear that Australian soldiers managed not to die considerably better
By not being scrubs
if america had slaughtered more of their own traitorous "peace" protestors and not allowed limp dick politicians to take charge, Nam would've been burger territory by 73'.
US Military succeeded in every single combat engagement, with an astounding 58,000 casualties compared to the enemies 1.2 million.
Allies lost more than the Axis in WW2. Why didn't the Axis win? Because of their peace protesters too?
>with an astounding 58,000 casualties compared to the enemies 1.2 million
Why do people always forget ARVN casualties when talking about muh K/D ratio? It's not so lopsided when you account for them, in fact you'd think the K/D ratio would be worse for VC/NVA because they had to fight a superpower with superiour firepower.
SLR>Plastic Garbage
>comparing ww2 to vietnam
study history before debating it you retard
The entirety of Vietnam was a guerrilla war, fought between a major world superpower and underfed chinks with commie rifles. The chinks lost nearly all battles and their biggest offensive (The Tet Offensive) was a major military failure.
>If it was a military failure, why is it considered the turning point of the war hmmm?
Well you see my son, because War isn't an isolated incident that involves only the men fighting, backhome in Burger land the peace protestors (usually leftist) and celebrities all adopted the new hip counter culture of anti establishment, anti war and before we knew it, the true american patriots were surrounded by degenerate hippies who would spit on the honourable men who returned home (who weren't even joining voluntarily).
These smooth brains saw the tet offensive as a sign of a never-ending war, despite the fact that in reality the gooks were growing desperate, with North Viets treatment of POWs growing more and more inhumane everyday just to force Americans to admit to war crimes they hadn't committed, in order to paint US as the evil aggressors, in order to gain more international support of peace protestors. They had done this before and it was successful. The Viet MInh didn't win the first indochina war, they used war guilt to attack the french population into submission at Paris peace talks.
fuck you
Joined them
>f america had slaughtered more of their own traitorous "peace" protestors and not allowed limp dick politicians to take charge
The problem with American foreign policy and warfighting of the past ~70 years is that our corrupt government seeds the war with "advisors" (getting around the later War Powers Act) and provokes escalation into a full-fledged conflict that no voter voted for or Congressman approved. So we the citizenry get dragged in kicking and screaming after a few waves of propaganda to stoke up support for drafts, then eventually fatigue sets in since very few citizens of any country feel hunky dory about fighting imperial wars in foreign lands.
I get why containment was a strategy to fight the USSR, I understand the US at the very least has naval obligations (to ensure free trade on international waters), but it's the same old shit, time and time again, falling down and tripping down the same staircase and expecting it to be any different. US citizens will never support wars in which the USA is the aggressor. The government can't keep morale high through propaganda forever. It's just impossible. The better move, which our retarded governments over time have continually failed to recognize, is to not spark wars with advisor->special forces->army/marines escalation.
Because the South Vietnamese were worthless.
Literally look at their administration and handling of the war.
>study history before debating it you retard
But you didn't. :O
Not only that, but that enemy casualty numbers are actually artificially inflated by the pentagon, who only recently began to say they should be scaled back by at least 300k
Yeah I strongly agree. I just can't stand that every mouth-breathing smarmy retard on this site or reddit thinks they know history or Vietnam because they saw some shitty meme about how muh amerigga lost to epic rice farmers
Telling people is study history when you have little education yourself?
The NVA, who carried most of the war, was a professional fighting force. Not some scraggly guerilla group. Saying anything less is false and denigrating what our troops faced
The viet minh did defeat the French at dien bien phu. It was frances final stand and they fucked it up
>doesn't even respond to my entire argument where I literally mention the research i made before exploring this topic
off yourself faggot
>NVA
>carried most of the war
hehe
You’re one of the retard neocons from the other side of the spectrum who keeps vomiting up the falsified KD ratios. You are just as much of a moron as he rice farmer idiots
VC got totaled in Tet. You can act smug, but your knowledge is only marginally better than those you call out
So if I got my information exactly from the Vietnamese Records of estimated death tolls then it's still evil American falsified KD?
>mention the research i made before exploring this topic
leave Vietnam alone!
Spend a couple years poisoning troops, enemies, and civilians alike and ensuring future generations of Vietnamese will be born with painful deformations and heightened risk of cancer, then surrender once the public naturally grows sickened by the war.
daily reminder that Agent Orange is part of the greater "Agent Rainbow," which was a system created by the British Empire
we're not fully absolved of guilt, but it should be known that we didn't invent the practice. The British used the same stuff in Malaya 10 years before we fought Vietnam, establishing the precedent for defoliating jungle with chemicals
Vietnam claimed 850k, not 1.2 million. 1.2 million is the US estimate by Rummel
>underfed chinks with commie rifles
L O LLL
NV had modern tech and some of the best commanders of the generation who had previously torn the French to pieces while Americans were fat lazy under equipped doughboys
Any part of the War Remnants Museum in HCM will confirm That over a million were lost from Vietnam, 2 mill in civilians
To be fair, the Americans' use of the m16 wasn't a good choice.
You got me there. The rest of your shit about NVA combat effectiveness is wrong though
We actually weren't fat back then, because nutritionists hadn't latched onto the idea that fat=bad and sugar/carbs=good
And by "latched" I mean "latch bribes from corporate lobbyists in the corn and sugar industries"
We'd cry for NATO to come save our pathetic asses (i.e. murrica).
Yeah but they still fought in the war and died in it while killing VC/NVA troops. To leave them out of the K/D ratio and then claim that only US killed mattered is dishonest and misleading. it wasn't 58 000 vs 1,2 million, it was more like 300 000 - 400 000 vs 600 000 - 1 000 000 depending on the sources.
You do realize that war is just not about the military aspect? If you got BTFO so hard that your own citizens are crying for their government to end the war because they can’t stand their own soldiers dying, that says something. It was a war of attrition, and the US failed miserably. Sure your military performed better but your population couldn’t stand their own soldiers dying by the tens of thousands, thus the will to fight was lost
>pre ww1 germany
After intimidating the natives with the navie just enough as they agree to rent out a city in return to yearly payments to the vietkong, the deal is struck and with greatest fanfare the newly aquisited city gets a quarter of german immigrants, some new infrastructure and a brewery while claiming dominion over all of south east asia.
If fighting happens it will be purely defensive or against subjects in the city.
>ww2 germany
War by proxy through the japanese
>modern germany
German troops will consider themselves to be on a humanitarian mission and bore wells for the villages hoping to bribe and woo their way to victory while returning fire on attacks against transports.
If no other country is willing to assist, all hope lies on native forces and their own ambitions.
Get defeated and declare victory
I believe we sent a bunch of medics and bards. Funnily enough both America and the Soviets threatened to kill us if we got involved, but we told them to fuck off. Then the guy who told them to fuck off was mysteriousley assassinated.
It's not necessarily that they weren't effective, it's more they were completely out gunned by the array of US helis, tanks, boming raids etc. Which once they learned, (battle of la drang) T
hey fled and ran hit and run operations *guerilla tactics* and when they finally fought face to face they got btfo'd (Khe Sanh)
>German troops will consider themselves to be on a humanitarian mission and bore wells for the villages hoping to bribe and woo their way to victory while returning fire on attacks against transports.
Do they come equipped with brooms like our last surprise NATO training mission?
Oh, also the word "war" will be avoided and the fight against the vietkong called a "warlike situation"
the protests were more about the government forcing citizens to fight through a draft in some random third world shithole. basically one dead american was worth more than twenty dead gooks. the protests were pretty racist if you think about it
The ones for german soldiers might be broomed and not gunned, but the ones sold to the proxy force's government by our armanent companies will be in tip top condition.
Out of the 9 million US active service personnel who served from 1965 - 1973, only 58,000 didn't return. Thats a pretty good fuckin rate which makes the "your citizens can't stand ur people dying" pretty much null. You need to take into consideration the mass media at the time and circulation of photos/film such as Eddie Adams' saigon execution photo, which he admitted to sending without context, misleading the public greatly.
goodluck winning the hearts and minds of rice farmers who, once you accidentally kill 1 out of suspicion of guerilla revolt, you create 20.
>the protests were pretty racist if you think about it
Nah, it's not irrational based on the philosophy of the social contract. A citizen has a social contract with his government, to raise taxes and improve all citizen's lives. An American citizen should in fact be favored by the American government over a foreigner, because citizenship has duties and benefits.
That being said, the social contract is not an excuse for imperialism (like Lebensraum)
westerners are so embarrassed to lose to a "uncivilized" nation, let alone a COMMUNIST one that they bend over backward to try and handwave their lose away, saying they didn't "really" lose and it wasn't their fault and look how many unarmed civilians we killed!
South Vietnamese losses aren't US losses. Sure they served the same side but they were a total shitshow, the administration alone had three changes of president and most of them just wanted to benefit from the war not actually ward off communism. They were facing the north who under Ho Chi Minh were determined even beyond death to reunite their country. They fought an admirable cause whilst the South was heavily corrupted and threatened by the US' savagery.
it wasn't even a fight the people wanted in the first place. if americans back then actually wanted vietnam flattened, it'd be flattened. same thing with korea, the military back then tried to mask warfare under "policing action"
Just check the logistic supply line ammunition mainly. Besiege those tunnel like in the old time you besiege a fortress.
Prevent villagers to supply them in food
I think they will be crazy mad by eating fish for a few months.
>Just check the logistic supply line ammunition mainly. Besiege those tunnel like in the old time you besiege a fortress.
Even if it means invading China?
Lmao keep talking about Communist pride, would you like me to mention when your shitty government instated full collectivism and you all nearly starved to death? You had the biggest rice resources yet were the smallest exporters and had to borrow it from Thailand. Now because of your adoption of Capitalist Free Market economy you are expected to become a superpower, so I ask you, who really won the ideological battle? Watching your people buy big macs from the Saigon Mcdonalds convinced me of the answer.
>it was a tactical loss!
>w-we could have won but we din't want to!
literally the only way America could have won was to either commit genocide or keep troops there and fund the south for decades until communism stopped being cool in the 90s
>South Vietnamese losses aren't US losses
No but you can't discount their losses when they did much of the fighting and then claim that US gained "an astounding 58,000 casualties compared to the enemies 1.2 million". It's like saying allied had better k/d ratio than Germans in WW1 or 2 while forgetting Russian casualty figures.
dumb memes
I'm not an ideologue, but Vietnam is united now and this is thanks to Northern victory that we didn't end up divided like Korea
>w-we could have won but we din't want to!
lol but that's exactly what happened
Now that you're here, I need some questions answered
Is it true that Karaoke Bars are actually fronts for prostitution? Do you drink tap water?
We would have fought alongside it, against the imperialist invaders.
>Is it true that Karaoke Bars are actually fronts for prostitution?
no but there are karaoke bars on ever street so maybe a few might be
if you want a prostitute just visit a "girl bar"
I drink the tap water in my apartment and eat the ice when I get food outside
but the water system in my city is pretty good and recently improved
>Australia: 521 dead, 3129 wounded.
>hur hur muh K/D, 58000 Americans dead vs 1 million North Vietnam. Amerika Fuck Yeah!
Check your flag for a second, will you?
Which city you in?
The same way, since it was on the winning side.
I was specifically talking about US involvement you dumb gook, in any matter, the Aussies were even more successful in slaughtering your forces so I'd be glad to talk about it.
Saigon
Capture cities with massive tank rush, pretend partisans are not exist.
why did ameridumbs even invade vietnam in the first place?
Did you enjoy the 50 year tet celebrations?
Have you ever been to a restaurant named Propaganda?
Do you ride a motorbike?
I see no reason for invading them in the first place
got roped in by France
Roosevelt supported an independent Vietnamese republic and Ho Chi Minh admired America since he lived there for a long time, its a real shame Truman was such a soft cuck bending over for the French
Flawed Domino theory, massive fears of losing SEA to communism, despite the fact that Vietnam was fighting for independence and unification, and that just because they became Communist didnt mean that it was going to spread, it was an isolated incident led by Minh (who initially admired the US for their revolution)
>hur hur me only include K/D of countries me like
Here, in case you're blind.
As a sane person, I'd rather help gooks against evil muricans.
jews
No, people weren't so fat back then but a famous study of autopsies done on dead American soldiers in WWII, the Korean War, and Vietnam found that the latter had a higher incidence of developing atherosclerosis. Keep in mind that these were all fit young men in their late teens and 20s. It is suspected that the Vietnam soldiers had more signs of atherosclerosis because they grew up on the unhealthy postwar processed food diet.
wow thanks bros ameridumbs really are retarded shame
yes all three, I ride a Benelli Tornado
based ruski bro desu
We spent millions supporting Vietnam jungle gooks for 20 years because mmuh socialist brothers while people in USSR had Africa standard of living.
>I'm not allowed to specify because I have a flag
Pho tastes like boiled shit btw
Nuke the Cambodia jungles where the zipperhead leadership was.
Whilst I was visiting, I observed a man with his wife and child behind him, with his dog infront of him as he held the dogs paws on the handlebars and drove. Also how do you not die from riding the bike?
>ARVN are incompetent so me don't inclunde them in total K/D.
Military industrial complex wanting war profits
Same reason why they ditched the glorious M14 for the söy M16
Modern burger tech was the direct result of war profiteers from the Vietnam war
>ARVN is same as US Military
So base on that stupid aussie, we're now allow to have US and Australia only in total K/D right? So the final number is 1 million of North Vietnam and Viet Cong/allies vs 58,318 US dead + 521 Aussie dead. Whoa, what an improvement.
here, a pity (you) for retard like you.
That was tough for us, but it was right thing to do.
"I've never considered [Vo Nguyen Giap] to be a great military strategist. Sound military strategy should not consist of sacrificing your soldiers en masse to break through the enemy lines. Had I employed a similar tactic with the US forces, I would have been removed from command in a few months. The Asian mind is different from ours, they do not place the same value on human life as we do."
We would have made peace treaty and tried to stabilize the country with peace guardians and make sure none civialians would have died or hurt.
William "muh body count" Westmoreland
Dude was an idiot