If you don't live in one of these countries you don't get to talk about communism

Any sympathy i have for them is gone. The tie with Serbs in being the most obnoxious of the East Euros.

Love it how under so called communist dictatorships, all deaths are touted as the evils of communism but death and punishment under liberal democracies have nothing to do with the capitalist system driving the market for crime and war. Don't look behind the curtain, etc. etc. etc.

Attached: 1536192783014.jpg (600x292, 35K)

>Vietnam
Oh yeah, totally communism and not 3 decades of destructive war because CIA bought into their own propaganda

Why do slavic zoomers born in 1989 pretend like they’re an authority on “gommunism”?

Attached: aIUdqBB.jpg (1121x490, 50K)

>Racial Communism = all races are equal
that's just neoliberalism pham, commies for the most part agree that identity politics ruin everything ever

Nazis killed more Poles than Soviets did though.

>the surviving group largely had worse experiences under soviet rule than they did under nazi germany
sounds like bullshit
only time i ever recall soviet antisemitism was during the six day war and they let most polish jews emigrate to israel

Some of them include “people who weren’t born due to gommunism”.

Because one is an economic system that develops organically, the other is a repressive state apparatus. One is Cosmos, and the other is Taxis.

I dond ged id :DD :D

the US government literally overthrew your democratically elected socialist reformers for a military dictatorship that led to a 36 year civil war
93% of civil war atrocities were later attributed to your US-backed government

Attached: 1536030420655.jpg (500x500, 33K)

I can't say if that's actually how they feel but it seems to me like it would best explain the situation
it's not uncommon I think for poles to believe that the nazis were more civilised and treated them better, and the soviets absolutely were animals to eastern europe, but it's kind of forgetting the millions the jewish poles that did die under the nazis

>commies for the most part agree that identity politics ruin everything ever
codecprime.com/partner/content/2250805-jordan-peterson-explains-how-communism-came-under-guise-identity-politics
>democratically elected socialist reformers
Hitler was democratically elected you mongoloid, it means nothing, commies deserve a fate worse than death but only God can deliver them that.

Attached: brainlet2.png (645x729, 78K)

That is the US not Capitalism.

>if a famine occures in a state with a planned economy, they call it a mass murder, if it happens in a state without a planned economy they call it the dustbowl
Except it was deliberate mass murder, you fool. The state confiscated everyone's food by force and you were gulaged or shot as a kulak or enemy of the people for resisting.

I don't think people like Nixon would fully identify with "all races are equal".

Frankly speaking, who else should be? Novomundians especially have very a warped view of communism.

Ehh to his point they did dispose the old guys for a bunch of new guys who can let them (American interests) get away with anything.

I mean to say that so many polish jews died under the nazis or fled the country that the surviving non-jewish population were largely treated worse under the soviets than they were the nazis, soviet rule also lasted a lot longer and I have no doubt most people in their 20s-30s have heard stories from their parents about the soviets

>it's not uncommon I think for poles to believe that the nazis were more civilised and treated them better, and the soviets absolutely were animals to eastern europe
Wha do you base this on?

Yes. It does. Because one is planned and delibirate and state enforced, and the other is an accident.

you better don't go to spanish-speaking forums then, where people unironically defend that real communism hasn't been tried yet.

mostly from anecdotal posts I've seen online from poles that are largely against communism, it's not a lot to go on or really all that authoritative I know, sorry about that

Not all famines are accidents.
See the Ethiopian famine, Irish famine, Indian Famine in ww2.

Yeah the US were assholes, doesn't mean Che was right. We are discussing economic systems, not big states messing with little states. I can see how you can confuse the two.

>Vietnam
USA killed more innocents there.

Mao Zedong managed to cause the biggest famine in human history resulting in 40 million deaths. This was after several years of good harvests in China.

Cool. I agree. Not because of capitalism either.

>Hitler was democratically elected you mongoloid
Hitler was appointed to the office of Chancellor you autism
>Jordan Peterson slinging the cultural marxism meme
literal nonsense, assuming that movements across every facet of life were pushed by some commie bogeyman as a serious plot to destroy western society is literal tin foil

Oh no africa my favorite country
Glad I can talk aboyr communism

as far as I know stalin and communists that follow stalinist principles are largely against lgbt groups and identity politics in general, the greek communist party is still to this day against the legalisation of homosexuality
try not listening to peterson in isolation so much, he makes money off of selling books saying that cultural marxism is bad

All these cases of famines is due to bad governance.

Man shut the hell up and stop embarrassing yourself.
Anyone gets to talk about anything as long as it's in a civil, argumentative and informed manner.
>but my dad used to live in a warsaw pact country so I'm an undeniable authority on communism

now make the same infographic about capitalism.

That's misunderstanding. Russians came from "savage" background and thus were more prone to spontaneous violence, but Germans were still led by genocidal maniacs.

friendly reminder that Poland is responsible for Holodomor

Except communism was imposed by government and so the two are equal in terms of blame. This is the thing. Communism that has to be enforced by the state is absolutely at fault for the famines it causes. Until the magical withering of the state gradualism happens, Communism IS bad governance.

>That is the US not Capitalism
except the US was at the time (and still today more or less) the single largest actor on the world stage pushing global capitalism in any way they could to undermine communism
>Yes. It does. Because one is planned and delibirate and state enforced, and the other is an accident.
death from starvation under capitalism isn't remotely an "accident," it's acceptable casualties in a capitalist ideology that has poverty built into it

we over threw people for cheap ass bananas my dude

irish famine started accidentally (somewhat) but was aggravated by british interventions, I only mention this because sometimes bad policy can simply come down to bad policy and not out of malicious policy, but obviously what happens after is more important

cant wait until BASED POLAND destroy and ANAL RAPES communism with STRONG and HARD LOGIC

Attached: 1531345850602.png (1029x1544, 1.08M)

>that Poland is responsible for Holodomor
russia is responsible for starvation they took grain from peasants and gave it to the higher ups so the peasants starved, don't know what they taugh you in your village but stay in school you might learn something instead of fairytales from commie grandma

I can agree with that

How would you even measure that when capitalism exist since people trade grain for cloth?

>try not listening to peterson
I don't see you refuting his arguments, pinko

>as far as I know stalin and communists that follow stalinist principles are largely against lgbt groups and identity politics in general, the greek communist party is still to this day against the legalisation of homosexuality
It had to do with contemponary connections of male homosexuality to fascism and pedophilia. Commies were never super hostile to homosexuality.

>identity politics
That one is obvious, commies were always about muh "workers of all lands unite".

Yeah you were jerks. Does not mean capitalism doesn't work.

This. And because communism is a planned economy, it is always bad governance.

Until you get a legitimate communism that is gradual, withers the state, and destroys all class etc. Communist governments have been state run behemoths with planned economies. Taxis. Man made and imposed. Not an economic system. Capitalism is and is therefore recused from acts of bad management that lead to most famines. Not all. But almost all.

I'm not trying to refute his arguments, I'm saying that he has a monetary incentive to no tell you the full story

exactly, the numbers are much too high for anyone to measure yet people think capitalism isn't responsible for any deaths.

>when you are reading how Nixon sabotaged peace talks about Vietnam only to mercilessly bomb it after he was choosen
>"They have got to go in there and I mean really go in," he told Henry Kissinger. "I want them to hit everything. I want them to use the big planes, the small planes, everything they can that will help out there, and let's start giving them a little shock."

Attached: confusedscreaming.jpg (616x2042, 374K)

>Why do slavic zoomers born in 1989 pretend like they’re an authority on “gommunism”?
They're living with the after effects and I'm sure they talk to their parents and grandparents.

My 72 year old Polish coworker has a lot more to say about it and no none of it is good. Disappearing relatives, relatives that the Russians took east and never came back, pretty much every adult got questioned at some point, relatives who despite being decorated veterans go to jail for 3 years for being overheard saying fuck Stalin in a bar, corrupt politicians, depending on the black market for basic shit, incompetent market policies, etc.

My late 40s Serb co-worker obviously didn't deal with dissappearing relatives or people getting in trouble for saying fuck Stalin. He still remembers incompetent government economic policies though and inefficiency.

And if we didn't overthrow people for cheap bananas, Britain or someone would have done it instead, so meh.

Thoughts on Revolutionary Catalonia?

Attached: 1506230173312.jpg (300x226, 15K)

>not an economic system
except it is an economic system
>"An economic system (also economic order) is a system of production, resource allocation and distribution of goods and services within a society or a given geographic area."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_system

both capitalism and communism are man-made ideologies that are centrally imposed on groups of people, excusing one for acceptable casualties within their system while shitting on another for the same thing is mental retardation
capitalism being some organic or natural economic system is laughable considering how new capitalism is on the world stage

>I have to be 90 years old to know that Hitler did some kinda bad stuff.

we still suffer because of it today, we wish we didn't have to live in post-communism because it still sucks. commies ruin economies to the point where, once you get out of communism, the soil is still plagued and there is no true escape

Peterson is not an authority on the subject

>through its Marxist idea that knowledge and truth are social constructs.
Should make it obvious that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

>I'm not trying to refute his arguments
there's your problem.
He IS telling the "full story", the full story doesn't include anything good about communism

Communism resulted in us being ruled by a madman who bulldozed historic villages to replace them with soulless commie cinder blocks, starved people to pay off foreign loans, and created a massive police state that spied on everywhere.

People were living in unheated homes and had nothing to eat at all because of the resident brain trust, and he also forbade birth control so women had to bring kids into an impoverished prison of a country whether they wanted to or not.

>Nazis killed more Poles than Soviets did though.
It depends on where they fit in. The Soviets basically rounded up people they thought would be trouble in their areas and sent them east. If you had military family members (remember pretty much every man of a certain age was drafted) they actually fared better with the Germans. The Germans were there 6 years and the Soviets for decades. The Germans have been apologetic and the Russians not so much. Also a bunch of their relatives who fought with the British couldn't return till the end of communism. Not to mention communism set their country back a lot.

After the fall of the South in 1975, thousands of Vietnamese were put in reeducation camps where they were sometimes held until the 90s or deliberated resettled near the Cambodian border to be exposed to Khmer Rouge attacks.

Private ownership of capital is Cosmos. A means of humans naturaly reaching consensus on how to organize. If you want authentic communism, the one that withers the state, and gradually destroys class I would agree with you. But Communism has always been imposed by a repressive state. It has a level of intent that does not apply to a simple "who owns the means of production". It is purposeful and planned. Capitalism can be used by people, but in itself is not a genocidal regime.

My gut says I should be suspicious, but honestly I do not know enough to judge. Maybe it truly was all the spanish lefties say it was.

Seriously, nothing good can ever come out of communism. But you can always go to China, North Korea, and Cuba if you want to still get the authentic experience. Enjoy being gulaged if you make fun of the leader's haircut.

Why is it always 1st worlders in these threads supporting communism?

>It had to do with contemponary connections of male homosexuality to fascism and pedophilia. Commies were never super hostile to homosexuality.
you do have a great point again re: concerns about paedophilia, and I'd agree that there would have been worse countries to live under as a homosexual, even the uk castrated alan turing who was instrumental to the war effort
>That one is obvious, commies were always about muh "workers of all lands unite".
as far as the economic side of things went anyway, but to agree with you I do believe some petitions made to stalin to legitimise homosexuality under communism were that it was a capitalist idea to pump out children for cannon fodder and cheap labour

Which South Vietnam also had done under Ngo Dinh Diem after we put him up

>put him up
Didn't we overthrow him?

>Should make it obvious that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
not an argument, you just said "he's wrong without even attempting to say how. I'm not wasting any more time on you faggot, you cannot actually say he's wrong so you pretend you won.
the left can't meme

wow so terrible

Attached: 1522239193659.jpg (569x370, 225K)

We were a First World country with top notch industries in the 1930s. Communists completely ruined our manufacturing. We became a crumbling Stalinist shithole.

you're just saying that because Tito protected you from the serbs for a few years, if not for that bit of identity politics used by the commies you'd be speaking out too

>Private ownership of capital is Cosmos
Not sure where you got your terminology, but private ownership has to be backed up by violence and capital needs to have infrastructure in which it has meaning. Historically speaking most people used to live on subsistence in small communities.

Russians are asleep, I guess.

>the full story doesn't include anything good about communism
I'm not trying to say that the side he isn't telling you about is full of good things about communism because it isn't, and I'm not trying to defend communism if it comes out that way either, I just wanted to make a dumb point about how he makes money from telling people that cultural marxism is bad and if that means ignoring that the soviets weren't fully endorsing homosexuality then he'll leave that out for obvious reasons
I'll stop now

and it's a degenerate hooker factory

>you're just saying that because Tito protected you from the serbs for a few years
Yeah but after Yugoslavia fell, then they just called on Germany and Uncle Sam for help in the early 90s. Serbian war criminals were put on trial in the Hague while Croatian and Bosnian ones were let off the hook.

>not an argument
How's that not an argument? Postmodernism and Marxism mix like oil and water, only a retard would claim that "through its Marxist idea that knowledge and truth are social constructs."

just curious but do you view the uk/us as having betrayed you in that respect? I seem to recall that the americans were close to securing czechoslovakia but didn't want to spend human lives to do it which led to the soviets 'liberating' you

The CIA pretty much micromanaged South Vietnamese politics before 1973

Yugoslavia wasn't too bad. We had freedom to go to Western Europe and buy shit, but we still had many usual problems of communism like money sink state factories, not being able to fire workers, corruption, and obviously you couldn't criticize the government.

As Moscow did with Hanoi. Your point?

>dumb point
indeed
again, you fail to refute his argument in any way, you're just saying he's wrong and moving on, dodging the actual poits he's bringing, faggot
I was supposed to ignore you, fuck

Capital isn't spontaneously, naturally and democratically organised toward the needs of the people. It is organised by the powers that own it and supported by the entire state apparatus, which molds itself toward their needs in regards to planning infrastructure, education, law and external policy.
But it can't be bad governance because it isn't the business of the wealthy that the lives of the people are good or that their rights are respected. So it looks like capitalism is an atrocity by itself, regardless of "governance".
Capitalism not requiring the usage of state power and authority in one of the funniest memes they've managed to push.

Generally pictures are more impressive when taken in the same spot with the same angle.

>again, you fail to refute his argument
Which is?

>the actual poits
Like the overblown kill count of reds? They've killed shitton of people, there's no need to exaggerate it.

>Serbian war criminals were put on trial in the Hague while Croatian and Bosnian ones were let off the hook.
Pretty sure the Witcher at the Hague was a croat.

I guess it's that the Vietnam situation was a tragic Cold War clusterfuck

When imperialist powers fight it's always the little ones that draw the short end

>Which is?
Can you not fucking read you actual retard? That's it, I'm done with you

Attached: 3155B27800000578-3452424-image-a-15_1455783410173.jpg (634x951, 149K)