Universal Basic Income

How is this supposed to work in a country that’s 56 percent white and already has noted public assistance inefficiency and abuse?

Go away merchant. You'll increase our (((rent))) by whatever the UBI is

less money made, less money spent, more value and outsource work to indentured servants and robots.

inflation fuck everyone that already make enough or retired, more tax and spending mean more inefficient, corruption and harm the economy even more with the already high tax

or it will eliminate every single human
nobody fucking knows what it will or can do

Anyone who unironically thinks UBI is sustainable and a good idea deserves a fucking labotomy

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In 2017, the US government spent 600 billion dollars on military and 1100 billion on welfare. That's fuckin 1700 billion dollars. To give everyone in the US 1000 dollars a month, it would have cost only 326 billion dollars last year. The cost for welfare alone not including Medicaid was 455 billion. Source: google.
In addition, imposing a robot tax on companies with high automation could offset the cost, too.

If less people want to work, there would be more jobs available in everything and they would pay better as incentive

Banks dont consider government assistance as shit right now why would UBI change that

99% of people would just sit on their asses and watch TV all day, while still whining that people who work have more money than them

>inb4 the AGI says 6 billion need to die

this thread seems to pop up every fortnight or so and manages to hit bump limit

most people will reject it due to the need to raise taxes across the board and the fact that inflation will grow out of control

If UBI would mean replacing all other existing socialist programs (welfare, pensions, etc), thus reducing the bureaucracy and the government spending, I would be all for it. But this is never going to happen.
Also what's so great about being a NEET and playing video games all day? I did that for a couple of years and it was the most miserable, lonely and depressing time of my life.

>To give everyone in the US 1000 dollars a month, it would have cost only 326 billion dollars last year.
thats 326 billion a month retard, i.e. almost 4000 billion a year

This is the most important tangent to UBI nobody is talking about. Instead of using middlemen and indirectly paying companies to provide the wellfare items, let people have the money and spend it however they like.

This is a retarded misconeption, if people have money they don't become NEETs they tend to follow their instincts and start businesses without fear of catastrophic failure and permanent fiscal damage

NEETs are basically people in room temp cryostasis, living like wagecucks just without the wagecucking. Wagecucking increases expenses, so NEETing is actually the same as wagecucking but with more free time.

This is a classic example of divide and conquer tactics from (the floor above) btw

it won't just be inherently evil
but if humans are in its way of pursuit of whatever goal it has then, sure, cya humans.

>To give everyone in the US 1000 dollars a month, it would have cost only 326 billion dollars last year
lmao

That was the goal all along
You kys first buddy

I agree, user. Its universal BASIC income for a reason. I budgeted it up just now, I live in rural Australia and for a shitty flat, minimum electricity, gas, water, fruit, veg, meat, dairy and bread for 21 meals a week it equates to just under 250AUD a week. Now if UBI should include telephone and internet access however...

>socialists can't even do basic maths
what a shocker

nobody will go back to work when the year is over

once you taste that sweet neet life, theres no forgetting it

>Now if UBI should include telephone and internet access however...
As a compromise, it won't when initially passed. But it's inevitably going to be tacked on as the threshold for "basic" gets raised so politicians can get re-elected.

No one's ever won on a platform of fiscal responsibility, user.

are there any downsides to welfare (which is essentially what UBI is, only on a larger scale)?
- massive immigration and fraud from people wanting to abuse the system
- encourages a culture of inactivity and reliance upon centralized authorities, which is a vicious circle increasingly harder to escape. widens the gap between those in power and the rest of the world
- lowers societal cohesion, as those who work resent those who don't, and those who don't resent those who work
- creates downward pressure, as workers right above benefits start deciding they might as well get on the dole

no UBI proposal has currently addressed any of these concerns. they rely on wishful thinking such as "UBI will be a stable base and people will work for more", when all economic, biological and psychological evidence we have over centuries shows people do on average the bare minimum of what is needed for survival and reproduction, and deviations from that are abstract extensions of the "reproduction" impetus

yeah fuck man I just finished wage cucking and on my 5th beer

get off my ass ya fuckers lol

i unironically think that 99% of normen are incapable of living fulfilling neet lives
i would expect that nearly all of them would within a year or two go balls deep into drugs, booze, the sex and other things that lets you escape life for just a while
>wagie in the current year of our Lord¨
consider self harm

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So basically, none of these:
Low income housing (section 8 and the like)
Unemployment
Social security (including disability)
Food stamps
EITC
Pell grants

Actually, I said all of them but maybe we should keep foster care, medical aid, and job training programs.

31 dollars an hour aint bad tho

Suposed socialists (Obama) gave untold billions in bailouts, nobody even blinked. Same happened in Europe, same effect too. It's not about socialists vs capitalists, this is entry level shit.

This is about the neoliberal world order vs the world, get a fucking clue you bluepilled schmucks

idiot
nobody will see it coming

UBI could only be funded by a retardedly high taxation of the middle class, effectively killing it.

elephant in the room is ignored. There's no way UBI works in the current world. 'Free money' lol. Prepare yourselves if this is ever implemented, its gonna end up that like that movie elysium with matt damon, with 99% of the plebs living in squalor.

I would make more money probably selling tshirts, testing out trading algorithms and working on programming projects. Plus pursue other hobbies like voice acting.

we need to help them in their own country so they stay there and can get their own free money

>Suposed socialists (Obama) gave untold billions in bailouts, nobody even blinked. Same happened in Europe, same effect too.
The bailouts weren't free money and the banks paid the governments back with interests, if you remember well.

less people entering shit jobs: military, burger flips, carer, clerk, etc.

these jobs may only pay the individual 16000, but that 300days of labour are worth a million to the overall economy.

giving people 12k a year, sounds great on paper, because like the above, you work out that it adds 600k to the economy.

but those people wont bother working those jobs. and whilst "slavery" technically doesn't exist, in practicality minimum wage jobs are the slave labour work force that is the foundation of every nation. UBI, would provide "true" freedom to hundreds of millions of people in minimum wage. at least 1/2 would not go back to it.

then your economy is fucked.

UBI could work in objective theory, but its application, or its level of roll out would have to be tied to a eugenics and education population rating, so the innovation contribution individuals freed from slave obligations exceeds their labour contribution to a business system or process.

that's going to be a three generation minimum time span.

in practicality for the present economic and social systems in place now, you could offer a UBI based upon, with a ~7% total wealth annual redistribution per person, with caveat that funds were spent within 12months with a receipt of goods.

that primarily would control wealth disparity to a functional, level, ensuring there was always a sufficient Quantity of consumer decisions being made.

The world is full of lazy retards who are eager to believe any form of horseshit lie if it gives them hope for a future where they can sit on their ass and get paid for it.

Politicians are willing to sell the lie as long as it keeps them in power.

If UBI ever actually gets implemented its going to ruin the econony completely

either way, it will become a necessity.

You give everyone a set amount of the same currency and then what? Prices increase as demand goes up. Inflation fcuks you over for dishing out money for no productivity. Stupid commie bastards.

No need to raise taxes, retard. Just eliminate all the welfare programs

Nope. We simply need to make entry level jobs China-tier in terms of costs.

What about if instead of giving everyone 12k a year we gave everyone like 4k, but in a lump sum once a year

Even in countries with very extensive welfare it wouldn't be enough.

when automation completely takes over because it can do everything a human can do and do it far better and doesn't require breaks or sleep, then it will be a necessity.

Ckeck out Universal Basic Assets, much more realistic concept:

medium.com/institute-for-the-future/universal-basic-assets-abb08ca2f0fc

ok but what will you cut to create that free money

Robots will always be more expensive than the basic minimum for a human to live.

it's going to cause all kinds of problems at first but will be a necessity eventually

>always
simply untrue

Uhhhhhh lol

Simply true. We are going to run out of the materials to power, build and maintain robots before we run out of nutri-paste and soluent green.

there will be more stupid people to fleece
and more sheisters fleecing the fools
god herlp us if those shiesters are in government

>Also what's so great about being a NEET and playing video games all day? I did that for a couple of years and it was the most miserable, lonely and depressing time of my life
Was it hard to fix after? I'm currently neet for the first time in my life and will possibly be forced to be one for a few years more, hope I will not get depressed

>but if humans are in its way of pursuit of whatever goal it has then, sure, cya humans.
And that will more likely than not be the case. We waste a ton of resources that this AGI possibly would want to use for something

>power
solar
>build and maintain
we're going to run out of metal soon? oh.

here's what will happen:

>when automation completely takes over because it can do everything a human can do and do it far better
yeah when will people gonna realize It's a long process that we all will probably die before it's replace everything ? Products will be cheaper new jobs would still be created
By the time robot replace everything even the research job all of this conversation wouldn't be matter

that is my 'slow and improbable' version.
we will create an AGI before we get to that point, and it will either kill us all or fix our problems so fast you wouldn't be able to comprehend.

>imposing robot tax

great, stifle r and d in the us while china is investing in AI/renewables/automation

this will surely end well

>solar power
Yeah lol good luck with that

>metals
Rare earths are already scarse with current consumption lel

is everyone in this thread retarded
Do you think anyone on welfare is living the high life uniornically? Even the drug dealers with food stamps and unemployment are dirt poor at the end of the day.

Let me spell it out for you tards. If everyone is getting free money and dependent on this monthly income EVERYONE IS DIRT POOR, RELYING ON THE GOV SO THEY BETTER KEEP ON BEING A GOOD GOY AND NOT STEP OUT OF BOUNDS. UBI will literally be a blade runner everyone lives in ghettos aside from the .01% scenario and we are all fucking stuck

>believing in the good of people
I don't mean to sound egdy, but if you believe people won't massively abuse a system if it's to their benefit these people are as deluded as mid 20th century communists.

this

Not happening anyway. Even in countries with more extensive welfare than in the US, people ask for less welfare, not more.

moore's law
we won't need anywhere near the resources we need now to build functional robots from nanotech

>giving niggers, spics, and arabs money just for breathing
Sometimes I hope the Georgia guidestones happen

Moore's law only ever applied to electronics, and stopped being viable last decade in that field. Sorry bud.

> people ask for less welfare, not more.
I'm not sure about it, there is a lot of support for it

FUCK OFF

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Social and economic stagnation would happen. People (like any other animal on earth) are lazy per se. Just think for a second why would you waste energy if everything is given to you.

everything will be made from nanotech sooner than later

what's beyond that, if we were to run out of resources, why would we have a need for using people/robots to make stuff in the first place?

UBI is absolutely retarded and straight up dystopian.

But welfare has a reason to exist not in the form or does now to appease the hordes of nigros in the ghetto.

Welfare is useful to further society and it’s been proven. Providing with access to opportunities and development to kids born into poverty who won’t be able to access health services out of their own pocket, provide them with healthy diet, access to education, same goes for teenagers.
Even young adults but it should be far more limited as that stage and only dedicated towards education beyond that welfare is just a way to appease a group of society who doesn’t want to contribute and leeches off does that do.
But giving a little negro a good diet, access to health services and education could change his life for good and break the circle of marginalisation.

I know, I do r&d in nanotech. Good luck replacing everyone's jobs with cadmium or indium-based piezo robots when both cadmium and indium are rare and extremely expensive lel.
Don't worry, it won't happen but you may have to sew t-shirts for food and shelter the day the welfare state runs out of money and political will.

REEEEEEEE DELETE THIS!!!!! you gave my Rabbi and heart attack when he saw this! I'd sooner kill all your firstborns than to give goys the same economical privilegies!!! What's next? goys in political positions? Media?

UBI can only exist as result of automatisation.
With automatisation the upper class will continue to accumulate wealth disproportionately to the rest of the population at an ever growing rate like it’s been happening since the industrial revolution.
In this scenario UBI only servers one purpose, to appease the population but the next logical step is population control and perhaps eugenics or straight up culling.
Why would a ruling class that controls all the means of production and enforcement of laws feed and provide for an ever increasing and possibly unmanageable amount of people?
UBI is the beginning of a dystopian future, not the neet paradise you envision.
And it won’t happen in your lifetime, automatisation won’t be able to provide for the entirety of humanity for at least a 100 years, for this to happen we are talking A.I. as capable as humans.
What we will experience is welfare states as unemployment skyrockets around 2040-2050.

Why should telephone/internet be such a big deal? Both could probably be added for under 10$ per week.
Also at least in some european countries internet is already considered a basic human right so if you can't afford a commercial contract you get provided some basic data plan for free.

Money would go to stinky people and they might use it to:
- pay rent for a house or room that they never could affird
- buy MORE boose and druggs
- people would get that extra for the new car (money enters economy)
- those nice and honest persons (banksters) would get bigger saving accounts
- boob jobs, and stuff
- just have moneys to go to dentist
- everything is bad

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this discussion was my boring version of events.
we will create an AGI long before we get to any point mentioned.

I've lived the neet life for a few years and I was miserable and depressed

People are extremely ignorant of how inefficient welfare spending is. Very little of welfare spending goes to the poor. If we took all of welfares spending and gave it directly to the poor instead of filtering it through useless programs, we'd be giving something like 15k USD to them every year. And poor people get like what? $90 in food stamps a month and a housing voucher if they're lucky?

Except that the companies doing the R&D are ironically the one's who have the most people working on robots taxes would likely be focused on the consumer of robot AI not the developers as this is where the majority of the new robots will be.

>B-but muh poor AI robot companies won't make enough money.

You can't have a robot that puts people out of a job for 26K and NOT expect to pay tax on it to keep the system afloat, you can't have your cake (the robot) and eat it (No tax on robot's)

Besides even employees have to pay tax.

Seeing all the degenerates that post here, I just can't stand the thought of everyone here getting money for free. The crypto gains are already bad enough.

...

Yeah all those rich people sure are lazy. Once they made enough to live it up they sure turned to slobs after that point.

Rich people are basically a different breed, they don't respond to money the same way that poor people do. Of course some of them are just lucky retards who inherited money, but the average rich person is superior in just about every way to the average poor person.

>my entrepreneurial endeavours have been successful, I'll expand further to capitalise off this
vs
>I'm gonna wageslave my life away to meagrely supplement the free money I get given

>6million
FTFY

sweet neet life is only good if you have a lot of self control, some passions/hobbies/network to attend to, and oh yeah, a shit load of money.

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Society already broke itself by creating a huge population of NEETs under a capitalistic society. Capitalism can't work unless there's an underclass that's willing to work. Even without welfare they would probably find living with parents preferable to a job. If capitalism isn't working we will need something else. To make people want to do things again.

Right now, wouldn't work in America, could work in Finland.

In the long term it's the future anyway, with technological progress gradually chipping away at amount of work a person needs to do to sustain themselves over time. With robotics and AI taking over vast majority of current jobs in two-three decades it's natural UBI will become a thing in every not-shithole. It won't produce basement dwellers, people will just work less (and jobs will revolve around what robots can't do) and spend more time in an enjoyable manner.

Then in half a century later singularity kicks in and the concept of work becomes abstract.

Stuff like immigration shouldn't be even considered because a functioning country has control over its borders.

>UBI could work in objective theory, but its application, or its level of roll out would have to be tied to a eugenics and education population rating, so the innovation contribution individuals freed from slave obligations exceeds their labour contribution to a business system or process.
>that's going to be a three generation minimum time span.

Almost 28y/o college drop out here. Starting to think I would be better off as a traveling homeless artist for the next 7 years than trying to bust ass working and going to school full time in order to catch up fast enough to then spend another 15 years working, with my youth entirely behind me.

What a time to be alive!

>The world is full of lazy retards who are eager to believe any form of horseshit lie if it gives them hope for a future where they can sit on their ass and get paid for it.

This pretty much describes cryptocurrency. You are deluded if you think those who got lucky "earned" the wealth.

>If capitalism isn't working we will need something else. To make people want to do things again.

A civil ware would be a nice distraction

yes the downside is niggers, sand niggers and pajeets continue being useless human garbage and slowing the human race progress

> More goverment spending

would actually save a hell of a lot of money

> More people would just neet around

nope. shit gets old and besides people want money for the things they don't need, but want

> People use the new acquired wealth to get bigger mortages

and what bank is going to finance an individual that earns zero above subsistence

get educated friendo. read some Charles Murray, among others. open your mind