Continuation of pol/thread/172627146
Share your insights on brokerages.
Prove you're not a larper.
FX sell side sodomy and trader larpers
Ethan Morales
Other urls found in this thread:
swissquote.ch
investireoggi.it
quora.com
mega.nz
bloomberg.com
en.wikipedia.org
investopedia.com
amazon.com
twitter.com
Daniel Stewart
Would love to get kikeanon's opinion on my broker swissquote.
swissquote.ch
Evan Nelson
Sell side always wins in the long run, even at the institutional level. Too many tricks up their sleeve. Last look is only the tip of the iceberg.
Isaac Bennett
They win because they're parasites. Being another sell-side drone won't net you a comfortable unless you know someone (read: jewish nepotism).
Ultimately winning means beating the markets.
Isaac Carter
bumping thread with book recommendations
Chase White
SELL OR BUY FUCKING EURO?????????????
Isaac Bell
BITCH WHY U NO TELLIN ME?? IS IT GONNA DROP HARDER?? I AM 1:50 BALLS DEEP IN THAT SHIT
Benjamin Allen
I take it by the statement 'Sell side always wins' that customers eventually give back their earnings?
I want to expand on this because it's quite interesting.
If you take a look at the profits of HFT market making firms, which are kind of analogous to Sell side, their profits rise dramatically during periods of volatility in the stock markets.
There profits aren't quite as high when markets are not as volatile.
In order for any market maker to make money, through the spread, the counter party they enter into a trade with must not have the market direction move immediately in their favor.
When applying this to HFT market making firms' profits, it's clear that when the stock market is in low volatility (in which case it's generally trending), HFT market makers find it more difficult to make the spread, because price is more likely to move quickly in the counter party's direction. But, when markets approach randomness during volatile periods, where they tend to lack overall direction, HFT market makers are more likely to make the spread because price immediately going in a counter party's direction decreases in likelihood.
Relating back to 'Sell side always wins', the wider implication of this seems to me to be that market participants make a lot of money during trending periods of the market, but then struggle to adjust to changes in market conditions, and end giving back much of what they had made during periods of low volatility.
And to go even further, this is why most people struggle to beat a benchmark, like an index's return. They would've absolutely thrashed an index's return during trending conditions, but greed/ lack of experience/ lack of strategy in differing conditions/ or just not knowing when to stop, are what prevent people from keeping the immense amounts of money they can make during trending/ low volatility markets.
Most people just aren't good at trading markets which are not trending. They give it all back in volatility
Leo Rodriguez
To consistently outperform, most traders should find markets which are trending, and avoid markets which lack clear direction, particularly on higher time frames.
Juan Cook
>If you take a look at the profits of HFT market making firms,
There are no HFT in retail fx spot.
Do you actually know how HFT make money user? Because I dont think you do.
Camden Moore
If you my comment more closely, it relates to the stock market (and the futures market), HFT market makers are present throughout those markets. You don't have to believe a word say, simply run a trial period on some futures trading platform (like ninjatrader or jigsaw), and you'll see them posting bids and offers. The implications of HFT market makers in those markets, during different market conditions, were then applied in a generalized statement as to what traders could do in any market. Trends occur everywhere.
Jonathan Ross
predicting markets really comes down to predicting volatility anyways
that bookies rely on price swinging wide to empty their books with a profit just goes to show they're incompetent
HFT's a dead meme already
glad these parasites are just sitting on a leveraged nasdaq position now
Julian Morales
>The implications of HFT market makers in those markets, during different market conditions
*HFT market makers' PROFITS, during different market conditions
Dylan Davis
HFT firms operate in securities specifically in equities. They make their money through analyzing VWAP and buying what other people are buying quicker than anybody else and selling it to them at 0.1% more than the asking price originally quoted.
There are no HFT in retail fx spot why the fuck are you talking about them retard??
>To consistently outperform, most traders should find markets which are trending,
No traders should avoid speculative derivatives like retail spot fx and invest in value producing assets like equities that pay well on dividends, since price action is directly correlated with earnings growth and new investors pumping money into the stock. Oh and companies buying back their shares.
What kind of fucking thread is this shit???
Landon Miller
>predicting markets really comes down to predicting volatility
No preidcting markets comes down to VOLUME not volatility.
Colton Foster
>HFT's a dead meme already
HFT firms are minted, JP morgan HFT hasnt lost a single trade in what 5 years now? They arent playing the game they are playing the system. Which why ex RBC Brad Katsuyama, set up ILEX to provide a level playing field on speed.
Evan Rivera
I'm still real sore about SEC banning "retail"(regulations defined as less than $10m) from FCM BD and stuck us with two RFEDs. I've tried bringing this up on biz over and over and over again so I know these words are too big for biz, but Im just so pissed at government regulations to keep us from getting access to prime of prime like its a conspiracy against us.
And theres no escape, not even incorporating an offshore company because they pierce the corporate veil. But consider how if you form a company you cant even represent it in court yourself because you need to pass the bar to be able to represent a separate distinct legal person other than yourself but somehow regulations on forex pierce the corporations separate legal personhood.
Luis Smith
Again, my comment referred to what HFT market makers make during differing stock market conditions. I should also add that spreads increase during higher volatility periods of markets, allowing Market Makers to make more money.
>HFT firms operate in securities specifically in equities. They make their money through analyzing VWAP and buying what other people are buying quicker than anybody else and selling it to them at 0.1% more than the asking price originally quoted
HFT's are involved in market making, I'm unaware of them using a VWAP, but it could be possible. Their focus is based mainly on orderflow and the order book.
Jackson Gray
Sorry English isnt my first language, are you talking about instruments being banned if they are not traded over a US exchange? If so, that is a very very good thing, and something the SEC has got right.
Ryan Long
t. glorified bookie boomer
dividends have been priced out of existence, it's just a risk premium at this point
same reason commercial paper yields near negative now
yield that isn't purely cost of capital doesn't exist anymore
>ILEX
you mean IEX, which I'm certain will just compensate with wider spreads
Eli Anderson
im working in an israeli fx broker ama
Nathaniel Ortiz
>dividends have been priced out of existence
If so, (and no im Gen Y) then the whole equities market is a Ponzi scheme with price action being correlatedwith speculation from earnings report as fresh investors plunge in.
Yes I meant IEX, no their spreads arent too onerous.They also have a big chunk of the market now.
Ryder Miller
I dont understand how companies can sit on billions in cash, and yet not pay dividends, it's a joke.
Isaac Gomez
Is this book by the Mandelbrot, i.e. Mandelbrot set guy? If so I need to find a PDF
Carson Gonzalez
Wow I forgot how slow Jow Forums can be, especially when you're on Jow Forums often.
Kayden Flores
capital is free, so now you outperform your sector by blowing it on buybacks and ramping up spending on anything investors might think is a good idea or to imitate industry outperformers
it's like another mergers&acqs mania but money's worthless and you ride the trend until you run out marginal buyers
investireoggi.it
best book written on markets ever
Brandon Price
Lets restrict the plebs to two bucket shop brokers that we've caught many times screwing over their customers and make sure they can never trade through prime brokerage in the real IB market like us.
Caleb Wright
Thanks for reply. Link didnt work, yeah Mandlebrot is a legend and one of the smartest men to live (Im sad now I just realized he died in 2010). I need this book in my life though. Great suggestion.
Carson Mitchell
>trade desk manager for structured products, mainly public and private MBS, CMBS.
Market was a complete shitshow, was basically run by 40 different people at 20 different firms.
The sell side likes you if you know people on the Buy side who will buy their crap paper.
The Buy side likes you if you can find unreasonably cheaply priced paper, which you basically cant unless someone is stupid and doesnt know how to price his own shit or they have to sell to raise money, which they dont.
So bond trading is so fucking boring. All that happens is the big banks buy structured products to satisfy their risk based capital or their CRA credits. They route these orders through anyone they want, so trading/brokerage is literally a dick sucking contest for whoever wants it hardest. If you try really hard the old guys will break you off a trade or two, but ultimately you need to know someone powerful/rich to make it as a trader long run.
Michael Wood
>Lets restrict the plebs to two bucket shop brokers
Who are the those? You have TD Ameritrade have ThinkOrSwim what's the other one? Im not in US and Im europe.
Jack Robinson
chuck schwab, Etrade are the best known. They all sell ur order data to HFTs and their dark pools.
Kevin Murphy
Expanding here quora.com
I liked this subsection of an answer:
>Given that market makers have an edge, raising volatility just means they get to apply that edge more often in a given time period. It is the same reason that a blackjack card counter makes more money when the dealer deals faster. The profit per hand doesn't change. He just gets to play more hands.
this is essentially what I'm getting at. When markets lack overall direction, this provides more "surface area" for HFT market makers to achieve the spread on.
Evan Martinez
>brokers are rigged
>by the SEC
sing me something new
I admit though I don't how how they're rigged, could you list what fuckups are to be expected from the rf dealers retail depends on?
mega.nz
Connor Roberts
do you actually sit at screen for 12 hours and read pdf's?
Michael Watson
the absolute state
Anthony Butler
you have to ask though, why is there so much volatility?
If there was more liquidity in the primary dealer trade desks, spreads would be tighter and prices wouldnt be as volatile. Fuck it used to be the that Primary Dealers had like hundreds of billions of bonds/stocks in their inventory at all times. They held that inventory for the entire bond bull market of 1981-2013, and pocketed the capital gains from the lower rates on that entire inventory. Now all the articles are about "liquidity in the bond market" since the big market makers have backed off of carrying huge inventories of securities, especially cuz they know its suicide in a rising rate environment. This explains the volatility.
It makes even more sense that w the less actual volatility, you have to be faster and faster to react to survive.... ie enter HFT.
heres an old article, but still relevant. There is like no liquidity at all in this mkt. Thats y its so volatile.
bloomberg.com
Adrian Moore
theyre not an ecn broker so thats already a red flag. my inside knowledge will advice you to use forexpeacearmy for forex reviews since they cant be bought.
Jeremiah Smith
>mega.nz
You little star user, thanks for that. It means alot.
uumm yes, well not 12hrs straight but 4hrs straight maybe. Why is that weird or something?Dont other people?
Anyone here investing in emerging market equities?
Colton Garcia
If I can't comfortably put in in eInk, I won't read it, good for you mang!
Grayson Cook
>VOLUME not volatility
could you expand on what you meant by that
you expect cryptokiddies to have a CFA? even I barely understand the nature of the fraud
>mocking users for reading
good job
Michael Watson
>could you expand on what you meant by that
see VWAP
>en.wikipedia.org
& OBV
>investopedia.com
Christopher Parker
lol, what? My head starts to hurt, while reading on screen, that's it lmao. If you can comfy read on LED screen good for you.
Jonathan Kelly
volume weighted averages are just that
averages
there's no edge in strategies focused on the lines the rest of the market uses as a heuristic
it's like picking a popular indicator like the RSI or 200 day ma and saying it has predictive power
indicators is the real scam that ruins most retail traders
all they do is describe the data
>browses chanboard
>lmao fuck reading off screens it hurts
I'd recommend the paperback version then.
Anthony Walker
>big market makers have backed off of carrying huge inventories of securities, especially cuz they know its suicide in a rising rate environment
shouldn't they be hedging away interest rate risk?
>It makes even more sense that w the less actual volatility, you have to be faster and faster to react to survive.... ie enter HFT
There are different sorts of HFTs operating in markets (and I doubt each firm runs a single strategy anyway). All are based around speed, it's in the name.
Some strategies are based purely on trading the order book. They use faster connections to be able to react (cancelling, placing, or modifying their orders) very quickly to changes in limit orders placed.
Some strategies are based on Market Making, but they're not true market makers. They may receive some sort of compensation for placing limit orders (rebates), but they're not obligated to always place limit orders, like a true market maker is. Market making strategies do benefit from higher volatility, due to more chances to act out their edge and larger spreads.
I've being very general here. It's easy to talk about these things, much harder to implement them.
Gavin Robinson
>it's like picking a popular indicator like the RSI or 200 day ma and saying it has predictive power
it's not that they're a scam, they're often misused by people.
They can be used effectively as filters and monitors of trend strength.
Example: If something is trending above a 200 sma, we should buy entries
If something is "overbought" and trending upward, instead of shorting, and hoping for mean reversion, look for pullbacks to buy into that strong trend.
lagging indicators should be used to confirm trends, and as filters for determinants of positioning
Aaron Jenkins
>Example: If something is trending above a 200 sma, we should buy entries
*should be looking for buy entries
Camden Price
they're tools and tools can be misused
if you developed your own, unique strategy, why not develop your own, unique tools or indicators to execute it
trying to compete against traders by using the same tools doesn't make sense to me
I can't claim to know or have achieved better, so you could consider this my uninformed opinion.
John Green
Trends occur because markets are about Supply and Demand, which is driven fundamentals.
Example:
If the ECB are becoming more dovish, and perhaps looking to not increase rates anytime soon, but the US Fed is expected to increasing rates, this causes shifts in supply and demand.
People want less euros, and they want more US™ dollars. The eur/usd pair drops because people are essentially demand more dollars with their euros.
This supply/demand shift expresses itself as a net movement in direction of price.
Edge is generated by NOT stepping in front of this shift, but by instead trading WITH it.
Carter Roberts
Technicals are used as a way to systematically enter into what Fundamentals drive.
Jonathan Phillips