How could this happen?

How could this happen?

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merely a coincidence it actually held them back

Wow what happened to Spain? And speaking of Spain, I remember they used to have a terrorist group bombing public places there until they decided to make truce with the Spanish government from a recorded video.

delet

what happened in 2008?

look at 1992. that's the power of currency devaluation. we will destroy g*rman econmy again after we get the lira back.

poland and othereastern leeches jonied the EU?

Your map is outdated

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hahahahahahah France has been fucked too , kek

>muh ebil euro

We joined it in 2004.

Economic crisis so EU countries couldn't afford to buy German goods anymore.

This is why we need to federalize

OP seems to be the only Italian obsessed with economy.

All Italians I've ever met don't care about it, they think of hanging out with friends, drinking coffee and having sex.

Why can't you be like most of your countrymen?

He's wrong though
Blaming everything on the Euro won't fix our country

not all but a lot,
see

Look at what was happening leading to 1992
It wasn't sustainable in the long term

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it clearly was and is since it lasted 2 centuries

>look at 1992. that's the power of currency devaluation. we will destroy g*rman econmy again after we get the lira back.

Don't you realize that repetitive devaluation will result in decreasing purchasing power of Italians?

One year you saved 10,000,000 lires that are worth 5,000 eur, the next year these 10,000,000 lires will be worth only 3,000 eur, in 2 years - 1,000 eur and in 10 years you will barely be able to buy a pack of bubble gum for 10,000,000 lires.

When the currency is gradually devalued by the government, the people will look for safer currencies to put their savings in. And what will be the currency they will probably choose? You guessed it, the Euro.

? The only times it grew so disproportionately was during wars
If we were so rich why were we making debt?

>If we were so rich why were we making debt?

Growing debt was not the result, but the reason why you were so rich.

This
Also it would immediately create a double economy, has every not retarded shop owner will only accept euros, or put why higher prices on anything payed with lira (creating a black market of euros)
That's how you turn your country into Venezuela

it's globalism you fool

That's what I was trying to explain

OH NO NO NO NO NO NOOOO AAAAAAH HAHAHAHA

Friendly reminder that all those neutral trade balance countries around the 2000s were around 10 years behind of Germany when it came to products there. They simply didn't import a lot of high quality goods like they do today.

This is imageboards. People here believe that flushing your currency down the toilet for some export boost (since your products are dirt cheap, not actually good) is the greatest strategy on the planet.

>made in germany
>high quality
this isn't your 80s or 90s, grandpa

People should admit Germans are indeed the master race, accept their destiny and ask the German overlords to be benevolent and merciful.

t. North Macedonian shill

Read again. In general in Italy, Spain or France you didn't have the amounts of relatively new high tech imported products, since they just didn't import as much. Computers were introduced later and slower, mobile phones came later, etc.

good for them, they were enjoying the good life for longer

Some of them (Italians) were emigrating en-masse.

I wonder if most of Italians really believe that devaluation is the solution to everything, I'm not really into Italian politics but I guess that's their populist government's agenda.

Yeah, inflation/devaluation is usually good for the government, as it's basically a free loan or an additional tax from its own citizens - the government prints money and spends it first so it buys stuff for lower prices and inflation strikes average citizens after that so they don't even have time to convert their money to safer currencies or spend it when prices already grow.

Western countries are not so much about manufacturing anymore. Here only about 13% work in manufacturing

this.

too bad, I am learning italian as we speak and migrating there. cant stand to live in this uncultural sweatshop set up by german bilionaries

il divano e vecchio
il salotto e grande
la tovala e nera

A lot of Italians on here are just young teens in their Jow Forums phase and believe all the imageboard economics crap about the gold standard and devaluating your currency to become the next China. Same attitude can be seen among Brexiteers on here.

The main reason Italy adopted the Euro was because nobody wanted to loan them any money anymore for less than 30% interest since their Lira was a piece of shit.

Nothing to see here, move along EU citizens.

wherever you say, the Euro is a cancer and it should eradicated, the germs can suck my dick

Yet somehow our products seem to be in high demand. I'm sure it's the evil EU conspiracy that is responsible for that. You guys are just poor poor victims

>Yet somehow our products seem to be in high demand.
my car is a seat and is horrible....i'm buying toyota in the next time

You should joing the magapede dicklets on /o/ who pretend like a Lexus is as nice as a BMW

Funny thing is that no one here even wanted the euro

German humor.

yeah, they are in high demand, since there are no alternatives, same with the american corpos.

i live in a mid-sized bulgarian city and literally all industrial firms around are german, there isn't a single one from france, italy, spain or some other place. and the bulgarian ones went bankrupt during the crisis. same with the retail chains - kaufland, lidl, billa. they sell all kinds of crap german food (had diarrhea yesterday after eating lasagna from lidl) and other items with german labels, but actually made in china/vietnam/pakistan. I hate g*rmans and globalists.

So what is stopping Italians and French from developing succesful companies with innovative products they can export to Bulgaria?
Maybe their med temperament prevents them from being economically succesful.

Not defending them, actually hate them, but they (ETA) didn't do such things, they went after cops & military

Luckily the government soon dropped any possibility of leaving the Eurozone. Apparently "it isn't a priority anymore"

Look up any german articles about a common currency during the 90s
Most people saw it as a french scheme to undermine german autonomy

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>, there isn't a single one from france, italy, spain

Here the biggest supermarket chains are French: Auchan, Carrefour, E.Leclerc, Intermarche and Portuguese: Biedronka (Jeronimo Martins) and these are only "groceries". We also have German chains (Lidl, Kaufland) but they're not as big as the French and Portuguese ones.

DIY markets are also dominated by French companies - Castorama, Leroy Merlin, Bricomarche. Out of German chains we had Praktiker but it went bankrupt so only OBI is left.

So it depends on a country. But the saddest thing is that we don't have any big Polish supermarket chain.

OH I dont care, I just found it weird you find that funny.

>So what is stopping Italians and French from developing succesful companies with innovative products they can export to Bulgaria?
accept it man, it's a shitty union and except germans nobody likes it.

bla bla bla, your g*rman masters taught you well about currency autism. Explain this now.

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>Explain this now.

Debt.

...

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are we relevant?

>Most people saw it as a french scheme to undermine german autonomy

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Massive housing bubble + too low interest rates thanks to european central Bank.

According to this graph of yours Italy (smaller population than Western-Germany and equal to France) had about the highest GDP per capita in the world despite having no electricity south of Rome.
All I can tell you is that perhaps your data is flawed or you used some meme metric like PPP

>One year you saved 10,000,000 lires that are worth 5,000 eur, the next year these 10,000,000 lires will be worth only 3,000 eur, in 2 years - 1,000 eur and in 10 years you will barely be able to buy a pack of bubble gum for 10,000,000 lires.
>When the currency is gradually devalued by the government, the people will look for safer currencies to put their savings in. And what will be the currency they will probably choose? You guessed it, the Euro.
so what? as long as yo can export better and the bedts lowers with devaluation , you can buy houses, gold, euro or dollars whats your point?

>So what? As long as yo can export better you can watch your society and economy turn to shit until the point your own currency isn't even used anymore for any serious business
You are aware this was bound to blow up one day? But luckily for you the French and Germans offered Italy a way out.

>Iceland
>Norway

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You do realize nobody is going to lend you anything if you costanlty devalue your currency?

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Companies like Sennheiser, Bosch, Siemens, Braun and Miele make better products than the rest of EU combined.

Unironically some countries are better off under someone else financial control.
Here late 80s and early 90s depression was mostly result of few influential bankers schemes that took down the whole economy, we called it casino economics.

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better, why would u need to lend money, btw thats not the case since they lend money with the lira

blow out like iceland? seems fine to me

>like Iceland
Iceland doesn't consantly flush their currency down the drain to boost exports like Italy did.

Wtf are you trying to say here

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Nah countries that have nothing to do with us or the eu still chose to buy our stuff

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"it will happen in a weekend, without nobody knowing when". -Savona

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>muh 5D chess
I bet you're thinking he's printing some lira in his office now

they did bankrupt and they are better then before now.
bankrupt is not so bad.

Their bankrupcy didn't mean much considering all their debts still have to be repaid. If they actually were to write these off Iceland would be a US state by now.

why would they be an us state?

Us stronk

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Even our president said that it was mistake to join the currency, sure it works just fine for germany and some other cunts

He makes a lot of contradictory statements. I haven't taken him seriously for a while. Senile man who just says what ever is popular at the time.

The euro made our products too expensive to export, just like italy

The EU did this

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EU is shit, but it's now it's so big it's hard to smash it to pieces without ensuing chaos.

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Continental Europeans are naturally subservient, it falls as it always does to England to liberate our continent from the eternal German.

lithuania my greatest ally

based loserbernd, my favorite poster

if you don't like it, just do not buy out good

I could not name a single Iberian product other than Jamon Iberico or Sangria.
Even your trains are German

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My laptop is from China, my phone from S. Korea. The house has its building materials made in Romania. The heating system is Italian. The car's German only.

>public debt is "not sustainable in the long term"
economically illiterate brainlet detected

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LMAO

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Nice try masking the relevance of the graph by including the massive debt of two world wars
Try now

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Severely underrated

this

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love democracy love the union love it love it to death

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the point is that public debt can literally reach 250% (!!!) of GDP without causing economic ruin and - more importantly - such large and rapid expansions of debt act as stimulus that help GDP growth in the long-run. Hence tax returns also grow along with the economy, and "paradoxically" causing a LOWER debt-to-GDP level in the long term.

Unless your currency is worthless (or controlled by a (((foreign))) central bank) trying to cut down the debt levels by cutting off government spending is literally the dumbest thing you could ever do, because you'll just end crippling your own economy without substantially lowering public debt levels. It's the Paradox of Thrift times x1000.

>the point is that public debt can literally reach 250% (!!!) of GDP without causing economic ruin and - more importantly - such large and rapid expansions of debt act as stimulus that help GDP growth in the long-run.
You know absolutely nothing about the social, economical and political situation of Italy

The chinks scare me tbqh

Of course I don't, but the basic heuristics of Keynesian economics remain universally true.
The biggest obstacle I know about in the Italian economy is the fact you don't control your own monetary policy. Good job signing up for the Euromeme, retards!


REGARDLESS, the ECB rates are currently below inflation. This means that the real interest rates are NEGATIVE. Borrowing money right now is literally GIVING YOURSELF FREE CASH. So if you hear any politician shill for austerity or talk about how your government shouldn't borrow anymore, know that you're being blatantly lied to, italianon.

>The biggest obstacle I know about in the Italian economy is the fact you don't control your own monetary policy. Good job signing up for the Euromeme, retards!
Our massive problem is low labor productivity, high public debt, half the country is eastern Europe tier and a massive and ineffectual bureaucracy.
We didn't notice these problems before because the debt was increased massively, drugging our entire economy. Without the euro we would've been in the shitter maybe a decade later, but the situation would've been worse