YOU OWE TAX

I calculated my taxes, have you?
It applies to most countries my man, where you from?
You'd be surprised.

Attached: 51Xl8RL.png (1206x54, 8K)

You ever share your btc wallet somewhere? They have it tied to your IP and can easily search it up to accuse you of money laundering and other crimes if they want. They can do this for any amount and they have.

tumble ?

Australian living in Switzerland.

I meant renounce citizenship, not just leave the country.

I got money back from 2017 crypto taxes. Kino.

Im not paying shit :) go fuck yourself faggot

Tell me how you can go after someone who bought his stack via p2p or someone who throws in monero tnx's...pooling and wash trading schemes, csshing out via p2p.

Teach me senpai.

Basically impossible. Guys who are basically verfify via KYC in exchange to buy in...and sell from one into their bank account, are lost anyway.

I would be. True.

read this medium.com/@mulligan/tax-guide-for-crypto-traders-205656586c1d
Even IF crypto to crypto is classed as a like-kind exchange in switzerland(and it's a big if) you still need to report.

Been doing it for ages with no issues. I really don't care

Sure, if you try really hard but I can guarantee that almost everyone on Jow Forums has done trading on a KYC exchange.
You don't care now, but just wait until the tax authorities start asking for exchanges records and you get thrown in jail :-)

>Tell me how...

As if the majority of all retards were cracks in doing their stuff purely p2p and not via bank accounts, that are linked to their name. Also show me someone, who is able to exchange lifechanging money p2p - there, you always have the danger of being robbed or falling for a honeypot of the government. In both cases, you are fucked.

Also, the IRS in non-shitholes is not nearly as retarded as you all think. They dont care about a couple of thousands in gains, but as soon as you enter a significant amount (how much depends on where you actually are), your chances of getting caught skyrockets, if you try to dodge taxes.

It doesn't matter if you have traded on an KYC exchange.

You need an entry and an exit point, otherwise you wont be able to trace it back. With only one...then clustering is a possibility but that's another story.

>t. paid taxes and now feels retarded he fell for it so now he’s coping on biz

Love it.

95% of my money is held in a trust fund that's based in another country. If the Swiss government turns into a bunch of fuckwits then I'll move to another country where my best interests are served. It will be their loss

I am not even from burgerland, but look..all i am saying is, there are plenty of ways to do it. If you have done you research before buying into crypto, then you have nothing to fear.

>but as soon as you enter a significant amount (how much depends on where you actually are)

Nobody enters a significant amount in their banking account...user...i...am

Last but not least...taxation is theft anyway.

it doesn't apply to all countries, you shit head

some European countries do it differently than the muricans...

I don't pay a single cent for crypto to crypto gains, only once I cash out into fiat

The “you have to pay taxes” FUD meme doesn’t work very well when 99% are going to lose money this year anyway now go away boomer

paying taxes in crypto LOL the absolute state of these permaslaves

i'm literally not paying a penny in tax until the very end and and i want to put £30m worth of crypto into my bank account, then i'll pay the current 28% tops. if they want to take more than that from me i will tell them to fuck off and move to switzerland and cash out there.

paying taxes for each profit on your way up is the stupidest thing you can do. you should kill yourself if you're willing to fuck your chances up of making it by giving away half of your leverage. literally all you have to do is report it at the end once you've already made what your aim was then say you had no idea about crypto to crypto taxes and that the idea seems bizarre and you're not sure how they would have enforced that anyway. because they literally can;t enforce that, it's a different currency, decentralized, they have no control over it whatever and forcing you to sell into fiat just to pay some taxes is a massive scam. they can tax you on crrypto to fiat and that's it, you have to be a brainlet to fall for anything else.

taxation is thievery by the state.
there is no denying it.
taking anything away from me which I don't give away is theft everywhere on earth, just not when your government does it.

I'm already paying for all kinds of community shit with my salary and taking my hard earned crypto is thievery.
if they are here to help me out with my losses, that could be considered, but they let you in your loss, but take your profit they didn't contribute anything.
fuck them

they specifically made a cryptocurrency division because of you.

Luckily I live in northern europe where crypto to fiat is only taxable event, ie. cashing out

>If you have done you research before buying into crypto, then you have nothing to fear.

Good luck, then. I can assure you, that in most parts of Europe many people will get fucked in the next couple of years, if they listen to you and try to hide significant amounts of gains from crypto.

Smarter people than you tried to play around avoiding taxes. You are either big enough, to pull stunts or small enough, to not be worth the effort. But the gap is extreme. It starts at around low five digits in Germany, where no one cares what you do (as long as you dont do it on a regular base AND you are smart). Afterwards, the investigators here in Germany start to get interested, until you are big enough to employ legal professionals, who cost more than you are able to pay.

I don not talk out of my ass here. My wife was a tax investigator in Germany ("Steuerfahnder") for years. This stuff is not something you "read about it on the interwebs and then avoid it". Such a statement is equally ridiculus, as if you would like to go to a court and defend yourself, because you can read.

Screencap this. If you have no experience in hiding taxes and/or professional education in how the tax system works, your chances of getting caught is borderline extreme.

Attached: dog.jpg (246x205, 6K)

I wrote a program to balance my trades and calculate the average cost basis for each coin. noprogrammers have no business trading crypto.

Germany is a tax heaven anyway regarding crypto. Hold 1 year and cihll your life. Anything else in your story is quiet funny, because crypto is a never seen possibility for "Steuerfahnder" and they have no clue how to handle the situation. You cannot just differ from people with 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 digits in crypto assets and just follow the ones you like.

NO NO NO FUCK OFF THIS IS MY MONEY YOU DON'T NEED IT!!!!!!!

Attached: ru3bl4-55a7ede2eb54b.jpg (648x595, 51K)

you are a cuck realizing he's wasted massive percentages of his net worth on taxes and trying to feel better about it by hoping a bunch of neet's are going to do the same thing. nobody is stupid enough to make the mistakes you have, you aren't a very intelligent person and are under the illusion that people are as dumb as you.

>Hold 1 year and cihll your life.
If you do not trade around, yes. Because this time starts all over again for the amount of crypto you trade.

>they have no clue how to handle the situation
Oh, you are in for a world of hurt, if you think that people dealing with tax dodgers every day for a living dont know how to handle "this iz new investmant, yuo not know haw tah handle thiz!" - bullshit. My wife stopped telling me these stories, as they happen way too often.

I might drop a bomb on you here: if you cashed out abnormal amounts of money into your bank account, the bank almost certainly reported it to your next IRS, before you yourself can even see the money in the account. And the burden of proof, where you got it, is completely on you. Almost everywhere in Europe.

If you do not deliver documents for it, all of it is fully taxed as gain.
If you dont report it in the given time, you pay sick interest on it.
If it is more than a certain amount, you can even go to jail.
In any case, you are a convict, which might hinder your future.

This might take a couple of years, but do not think that these people are stupid. They are throughly, you cannot bribe them and they do not care what you think taxes are or what a whiny excuse for a libertarian you are.
Because they have leverage over you, which they enforce without mercy, if they see you try to fuck them.

>I might drop a bomb on you here: if you cashed out abnormal amounts of money into your bank account, the bank almost certainly reported it to your next IRS, before you yourself can even see the money in the account. And the burden of proof, where you got it, is completely on you. Almost everywhere in Europe.

It is around 10k-15k in average - some diffrence from country to coutnry.

Nobody is doing that shit and bombs 50k into their bank account and hopes to evade taxes, i mean...user...come on. Do you really think people with 7-8 digit portfolios, don't know BASIC stuff like that? user i am really sorry for you. But desu, i cannot even blame you.

How should you believe something else, when your loved one is a "Steuerfahnder" and is doing the exact thing you are scared of. Your believe system is obviously biased af. There are plenty of opportunities. Nobody on Jow Forums will tell you the way, but people can show you the right path.

Yes it does. If you trading 100k in assets and you've never had that much money in your life tax authorities will wonder why they don't have a record.

If you don’t listen to this user, you will soon learn the wonders of civil asset forfeiture.

This. All they're getting from me is the taxes on the fiat that I can cash out and actually use in real life.

Also checked

>cuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuck

I am smart enough to lower my tax burden through a legal professional (my wife), who knows loopholes and possibilities, which you will not find on the internet.
I am also smart enough to earn enough money, to not care, that a certain amount of it is going to the state (which I am ok with).

It is on you, to either disregard my words as bs and take your chances or listen to me and ask the next tax consultant about it. Like I said: below five digits in gains and I doubt they would come for you anyways. But anything above is almost always a sure way to start criminal tax proceedings on your name.

You can again be a neckbeard, fellow user.
But please do me a favor and cry on Jow Forums, when (not "if") the IRS sends you a letter.

>wife steuerfander
>thinks system works
got a entirely different experience from an older steuerfander. 90% complains how it doesn't work. 10% idealism how people should pay taxes when others don't to keep the monstrosity running.

Also personal experience with the tax advisors:
>how do i tax cryptos?
>what?
>crpto, you know bitcoin?
>what?
>continue for 10min trying to explain shit
they don't seem to have it the least bit on the screen.

It doesn't even have to touch your bank account. Soon tax authorities will ask for records from exchanges. If your balance at that exchange was an abnormal amount, they're going to want to know where you got it from.

>soon
it's already happening.
for germans bitcoin.de gave on their own accord all data away

>Do you really think people with 7-8 digit portfolios, don't know BASIC stuff like that?

You would be really amazed, how stupid people with this much money can act.

So what? No different to any other assets. And it IS different from country to country - in most it's only at cashout that it matters.

They can suck my dick.

so did Coinbase

meant to be a reply to this guy.

most countries want to take their share of the goys money

the question is of Fiat / LEGAL TENDER / TENDER FOR LAW and JURASDICTION

Otherwise they have no jurasdiction whatsoever over any crypto that isn't/wasn't acquired through a centralized Legal entity.

The Law Society is the Private Society Cult, attaching their rules to your life at every step. The only thing you need to know is what actions do you yourself choose to do (ignorantly) for them to gain jurasdiction

you've posted here loads of times you cringy fuck. your wife is a dumb cunt and if she thinks any tax men in any country are going to turn down a cash out at the end for 28-50% tax then she is an absolute fucking idiot. an actual moron of a woman. again if you're paying tax on the way up and not once you've reached your goal, then you are the definition of brainlet.

>This applies to all countries
haha

Daily Reminder
The Mutts live in one of least free nations on earth but are to dumb to see it

by the time they get onto me, my money and I will be far far away in a country that doesn't extradite..

Hahah burgers BTFO

Dutchfag here, crypto is not taxable. Only your wealth is taxable. So it doest matter if you have roubles, dollars, bitcoins or whatever the fuck ----->

0 - 25k = 0% / year
25k - 100k = 0.8% / year
>1milli = 1.39% / year

Easy, simple and it works. Good luck keeping track of your shitcoin trades whaha, just HOLD em for 1 year r-r-right ? Good luck in this shitmarket. Im gonna roll a fat joint and fuck a hooker in the ass from my crypto gains I cashed out start januari.

>got a entirely different experience from an older steuerfander.

They know how cryptocurrencies need to be taxed in most cases - it is a simple private sale ("privates Veräußerungsgeschäft"), where also the holding time of one year stems from.

Anything following this is business as usual, cryptocurrencies did not bring anything new to the table here, except that there was kind of a dispute, as what it is taxed specifically, how they can utilize the publicity of the blockchain to track transactions etc. - but taxing is not the issue.

>This applies to all countries.
Crypto to crypto trades are not taxed in all countries. As the Morrissey song goes, America is not the world.

>Only your wealth is taxable
>he thinks that is good in any way shape or form
you get taxed on your income, your income gets eaten by inflation and if you still have anything left you get taxed again on your wealth.
how does it feel being a serf in the 21st century?

>private sale
what if you just open a cheap llc and do it over your company?

>cryptocurrencies did not bring anything new to the table here

How is your wife going to trace tnx from dex?
How is your wife going to trace monero?
How is your wife going to trace back poolings?
How is your wife going to trace back freshly mined coins?

We don't live in a fairytale with magic, dragons and elves, who are freely willing to pay their taxes. Cryptocurrencies brought a whole new shit to table. Fucking untraceable If you are doing it right.

We don't need to discuss wether is is supposed to be taxed or not. The laws are clear in most countries, even though the first court cases will change up a lot of things, because you cannot randomly differ crypto from other financial assets.

Finland certainly knows how to find cryptocurrency tax evasion.

I love to discuss the tax situation on Jow Forums and do some free survey how everyone thinks about it, but just tell me fucking how?

I'm clearly open for a discourse, but at least give us some input.

It's impossible. The only workable solution is taxing you when you exit to fiat......on the amount that gets exited. They have no way of knowing if I bought Dero or XMR and sent it to the wrong wallet by accident, or blew it all on bad trades or made a million dollars. Only matters when I try to spend it anyway. As always, OP is a faggot.

THIS, apart from Jow Forums is to dumb to understand!

Do you know about the 13th amendment (forbid titles of nobility i.e Esquire)? the war of 1812? How they relate to the BAR (British Accredited Regency)?

fyi, i am not a mutt

>How is your wife going to trace tnx from dex?
>How is your wife going to trace monero?
>How is your wife going to trace back poolings?
>How is your wife going to trace back freshly mined

YOU need to provide the proof of origin of the fiat YOU gained from YOUR actions on the cryptomarket, regardless if you got rich with trading shitcoins in 2017 or mined bitcoin with a calculator back in 2009.

My wife would simply check the information you gave her with the reality (she does not work there anymore). But if you just do not give information, YOU are fucked, because they assume that simply all of it is gain.

No investigator needs to check about freshly mined / monery / dex / what you did or dit not, if you did not reported it, they simply demand the information from YOU!

Wrong, you dont have to pay taxes in Germany (umsatzsteuerfrei). But nice crab bucket mentality

paying on your whole stack when you cash out to fiat is much better than paying on every trade when you accumulate

Never said otherwise.

>Crypto to crypto trades tax
That doesn't exist In my country. You guys got fucked.

it's always the same thread, again and again...

This is hilarious.
> be state
> erect massive world spanning system forcing people to slave for your tokens on penalty of imprisonment or death
> inflate and tax away any financial gains they manage to actually make, so it's also perpetual
> can't even run a straight game anymore, entire system collapses
> ancap fags pissed, they know a little crypto, decide to fuck my shit up.
> lol internet nerd money.
> lol wtf u mean pic related
> this isn't fucking funny anymore
> you cunts are messing with the fabric of the civilisation that we fucking *OWN*
> try to police it
> they move to anonymous chains
> try to regulate the exchanges
> they move to anonymous dexes and on chain atomic swaps
> try to subvert the largest blockchain by seizing control of the development team and major corporate backers
> they fork away and keep increasing adoption and pushing their coin as actual money
> there's nothing I can fucking do
> go on laotian basket weaving forum and scream threats into the ether that if they don't report themselves for re-shackling, they will be re-shackled.
> bust a blood vessel
> have a stroke
> world continues on without me and nobody mourns my passing.

Attached: unnamed.png (957x782, 62K)

lol, my basis is so low that the difference between what i actually got it for and paying full-basis is about 5k.
feels good man.

Kek. These threads are entertaining. It's one thing to warn anons about tax laws and ways people might get in trouble (example: irs gained access to coinbase accounts trading 10k or more). But most of these threads act as threats disguised as warnings. Further convinces me that tax shills are probably paid to post here.

My recommendation to anons: slow down your use of centralised fiat/crypto exchanges like coinbase because the probe will get bigger with each coming year. Find a crypto seller locally who you can trust and buy it that way. I stopped using a fiat exchange early this year and I'm playing with the house's money. If I need more crypto, I will buy from a local bitcoin miner i know and trust.

IRS can suck my dick.

Attached: wesley snipes.jpg (1280x720, 99K)

Right, buy local, buy organic, and most importantly, don't patronise the control points of the old slavemaster looking to re-shackle you.
When he's dead, all of us will have "made it". Until then, we're just building the new world in the shadows.

this. checked.

>Tax on crypto to crypto trades
nope, not here in US
>irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
They treat it as a property being traded, you are only held liable for taxes when it is sold for USD.
Your total tax liability will be the sum of the USD you spent on the coins plus the sum of the USD earned from selling the coins.
you lose money trading, you have a tax write off, you gain money, you earn taxes.
if you mine and it is 100% profit, then you are taxed as personal income when you sell the coins for USD.
if you hold the coins for over a year, personal income tax bracket does not apply and its simply capital gains tax-rate when you sell the coins.

Attached: head up ass.png (645x729, 42K)

Germanguys problem is he can't. They jail people who trade private with the argument that you need a license to act as a exchange. license costs €100k + additional crap added on top. Basically put all the poorfags on same level as drug dealers.

Then he should leave. The only way the countries will get the message that what they're trying to pull in the more authoritarian shitholes won't work, is if all the people it's targetted at simply up and say "You know what? Fuck it, Malta is looking pretty nice right now".
Between jurisdiction shopping and the mathematical primitives of cryptocurrencies, anyone with the least bit of will to be as such is effectively untouchable.

Nope not all the countries check again boomer.

The smart ones heavily invested in crypto left already. Tax law is nice in that case - you don't pay taxes if you officially change residence and live more than half the year outside the country. For those unable to leave it's however gg no re.

Yeah basically everyone i know from the early days has already a policy of blackballing any country hostile to crypto. I don't think realistically anyone is "unable to leave". If you're in an authoritarian state where they're proving their agenda is to enslave you by their actions, you make it your business to leave no matter what it takes, or you end up enslaved.

which gains

>This applies to all countries.
Nope. In Estonia there is 0 trade based tax. You only pay 20% income tax on the profit that you cash out. There's probably other countries as well with similar laws.

In theory cant i just worry about tax when i cash out and pay whatever bullshit late fee they give me

Attached: 1527310522678.png (713x809, 81K)

Canada you only pay on realized gains IE cashing out, unfortunately this applies to things you purchase with crypto as well as that's a realization of your gain

Didn't mean unable due to goverment. For many family &co are holding them in place. And most prefer a "secure income" from their job over risky investment.

Right, and I'm saying that they should pack up their entire families and everyone that agrees that what is being done is unjust, and move to a place where it's not being done. It's happened before throughout histories on issues of similar importance, this is effectively insistence on maintaining a system that differs very little from slavery on penalty of imprisonment or death. Staying in a country that actually makes that a policy is simply stupid. If you have a company, your skills will be valuable in other places not so retarded, if you have a family, you do them a favour by moving out of that environment. The truth is eventually anyone with any actual wealth to tax will have moved out anyway and then the inevitable will happen at any rate, so it's simply pre-empting that to not be there when it does.
"Let's just let the state do whatever it wants to do, I'm sure nothing will go wrong." has never been an effective policy, and it's not going to start now because it's current year.

it's extremely easy. track the USD prices of all the coins you buy and sell, and enter it into accounting software like quicken or use something like bitcoin.tax. the software outputs a report or .tax file of all your sales, simple as that. but you have to calculate the USD prices consistently for all buys and sells or else they will accuse you of cherry picking prices for less tax exposure.

>This applies to all countries

actually the US is one of the few countries that demands tax on crypto to crypto trades

Daddy, waht are cryptogains?

With that attitude you’re sure to see massive adoption.

>Pic is you

Attached: 3C4C8A5B-982E-4E2E-961E-23DC8031744C.jpg (500x729, 67K)

technically false but in practice true

The masses will not wake up until it's too late. Crypto is our only real hope at this point. I'd say if you are lucky enough to be in a situation where you have no living expenses, go all in, throw your shitty fiat into crypto before it's either illegal to 'take money out of the system' or some other bullshit thing.

Personally, I regret cashing out half my crypto in January. If I could put it back in without penalty, I would, because fuck this system. The very first thing that happened when I deposited my money from fiat at the bank was that they informed me that were freezing it for 5 days. Like, the very first institutional interaction I had with a bank was these fucking people telling me, 'Haha, it's our money now, we'll tell you when you can use it.'

Something someone else said on Jow Forums a few weeks ago has stuck with me, which was that he thinks of money in terms of BTC now, not dollars. I am starting to do the same. One day, I'd like to use some chip credit card thing and have no banks involved, just pay 50sats for my coffee by tapping my card. That's a future I would be a lot happier every day to wake up in.

Attached: blowjob.jpg (1280x893, 263K)

>baseless FUD
>me wife was e tax collecter oi
>she banged those lads up real good
>aint no way you aint gonna pay yer taxes

Sure thing fucktard

>The masses will not wake up until it's too late.
They masses will never wake up, look at China