Did muslims really bring civilization to india?

catholicism

Name one successful Portuguese colony. Just one. I'll wait.

You go too far. The Muslim conquest of India claimed 30,000,000–40,000,000 people's lives.

I... I can't.

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What does that have to do with colonialism? Four of the most successful former colonies in the world - the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - are predominantly Protestant (and all were British colonies). Meanwhile look at the state of former Spanish and Portuguese colonies in comparison.

dang it
i guess the portugese didnt find empty places to send settlers like the british in north america

>self-righteously imposing my arbitrary cultural values on other people
>justify subjugation with specious arguments and rationalizations
W-We're making your lives better, guys.

Brazil?

I don't think so as evident by the fact that every single muslim country is a shithole

2/10

You think India would have been better off under the boot of the equally foreign and high-handed Islamic Mughals? At least the British made token attempts at civilization; other conquerors didn't even bother.

India has more people in it than the rest of the colonised world we made a decent country out of it, so that line of argument is out.

Huehuehue.

keeeek fucking shitskin moron
ok you know what i agree actaully, thousands of years of reflexion and civilization is "arbitrary", i say we let you keep being cannibals instead, this is what you deserve, in no way white people should elevate you to being a human being bc yu don't deservre ti

Not enough, apparently

although i dislike catholicism, i think India would have been much better if it was a catholic country

Goa's still the best part of India by far.

Your overarching assumption is precisely the issue with your argument: *civilization* as being an emergent phenomenon of adopting appropriate values -- more specifically, tracing the social genealogy of *civilization* betrays the very circularity of what it means to be a civilization. In a western society, I subscribe to western values -- those of a civilization --, and the values of a civilization happen to be western values.

You unironically sound like a sociology faggot.

I personally don't think conquest/colonization is ever useful, but the implication of this:

>They outlawed shit like widows being burned alive on their husband's funeral pyres and tried to outlaw shit like child marriage.

is that the British were making their lives better -- something with which I disagree.

Actually Kerala is. But Goa is still pretty good compared to the rest of that shithole country. Especially the north.

So you think India would be better off with practises like forced self-immolation of widows and rampant child marriage of girls?

you see
India under portugese dominance would have been better, probably just like brazil, but at least they would not shit on the streets

>Portugal was only into the colonisation game for profits, whereas the British at least partially believed in the goal of civilizing and advancing other cultures.

I thought the British were the one who exterminated the Amerindians

>I thought the British were the one who exterminated the Amerindians
thats spaniard propaganda

i agree you you are a massive faggot, but beyong that you are a politically motivated moron with 0 objectivity whatsoever, you assume i say western civilization is the master etalon of civilization and there's nothing besides it but it's not even the case
yes like it or not there are such things as objective values, for example you don't shit where you eat, even animals don't do it, 2nd rate civlizations certainly don't do it, however indians do, objectively you are below evenanimals
besides you ignore hygiene and science completely bt whatever

now i am waiting for you to explain to me how shitting where you eat can be good if you are open-minded and it's all a matter of point of view anyways lmao

Lad, India was 20% of world GDP before colonialism and 2% after. The railways and infrastructure were built for extracting wealth not storing it in India.

You have a rose tinted view of colonialism and need to consider if you would accept being colonised by an imperial power.

When Anglos don't have a king they become genocidal.
See: Jolly Olly's treatment of Irishmen.

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Muslims destroyed our civilization. They destroyed our Universities of Nalanda and Taxshila. They killed philosophers and other scholars. They burnt our libraries.

Sorry pajeet

>I thought the British were the one who exterminated the Amerindians
No, that was mostly the American colonists. For much of the 18th century the British were opposed to the expansion of colonial lands further west (one of the reasons for the American Revolution starting).

The Mughal were based though.

>Name one successful Portuguese colony.

Macau has a per capita income of $80k and has one of the highest standard of living in the world. Of course none of this is because of the Portuguese and it has to do with tremendous rise of China's economy.

British are truly angelic people.

Brits destroyed Indian manufacturing industries. Indian cotton clothes used to be best in world and were worn by elites in Europe. Brits cut the thumbs of Indian weavers', set up mechanical weaving factories in England and imported cotton from India at very cheap rate thus themselves becoming the best exporters of cotton clothes.

I think these things aren't *wrong* if you consider them in a vacuum. Suppose 99% of the population is wiped out and the remaining 1% survive -- but they're separated across large distances. These two groups, A and B, then reproduce and their children are left to fend for themselves. In one of these new societies, say A, suppose there is a custom X which isn't sufficient for survival but necessary -- think something like burying the dead. This custom will invariably lead to the propagation of other similar customs that aren't sufficient for survival either but necessary nonetheless. If we consider this chain indefinitely, namely: X_1 -> X_2 -> X_3 -> X_N, there is a point at which if I am from society B and I visit society A I am baffled by X_N. I'm not baffled by X_N because it is perplexing or irrational in itself, I'm baffled by X_N because I've not had a chance to understand the sophistication of the social progression which brought it unto society A.

how do you deal with the shit streeting jokes?
for example i feel bad when my country is only known for being violent

No they had already existing civilizations but they also didnt destroy it.

Okay now I know you're trolling. I wasn't sure at first. Never mind.

Only Jalaluddin Mohammad Akbar was based. Others were tyrants.

Portugal was actually the first to abolish slavery

Euros also used to shit outside untill last century. I don't live among wh*toids so don't care about what do they think of us.

They fucked the industry in places like Calcutta but expanded growing into western india.

Your argument seems to be that the prevailing eurocentric weltanschauung has, through trial and error or some objective, verifiable methodological process, decisively selected the "right" values for a society to adopt.

where in india do you live???

Honest question:
Do you think there are subtleties to French culture/language that would take me years/a lifetime to understand?

Yes?

Why not learn someone else's language or learn about their culture in a participatory way and find out.

No they didnt. They had the toilet for the upper classes and outhouses in most places. Where they didnt and at night they used chamber pots. No one is shktting outside in the elements in the middle of the winter of northern europe. Hell even the Romans had kind of communal outhouses.

Goa was part of metropolitan Portugal. Goans were given same rights as mainland Portuguese citizens. While Indian empire was different from United Kindom within the British Empire and native Indians were treated as second class citizens. Also brits had setup Princely States in which the puppet kings had absolute power on the people of those states and those kings abused that power.

india is sending satellites to mars
what is brazil doing?

youtu.be/5ieJyGRI4wE

Thank you based Muhammed.

maybe you should shut the fuck up

yes
yes sure and i already have done so for anglosaxon "culture" needless to say i was pretty disappointed after a few years, next time i will pick a better culture to get interested about, idk, maybe german

Punjab

Read what happened to those who lived in Goa

do you live close to pakistan?
thats crazy

Maybe try something where the people "shit where they eat," and you might learn something.

At the very worst you'll be disappointed again.

based comment

It probably did

See Mughal empire

Upper classes were also using toilets from centuries. Harrapns also built toilets in their cities thousands of years ago. But peasants shat outside. I doubt that European peasants had toilets until last century.

i insult you and now you want me to come learn indian and eat food with my hands or whatever ? why ? you are masochistic ? so then you can insult me for being a hipster a few years down the line ?
i went to india it was pretty in some places but also fucking filthy and full of morons, it reminds me of france too much

anyways i'm not sure i am that interested in living in india, i looked into learning an asian language but clearly that would be chinese not indian sorry

Yes I live close to Pakistan's Punjab. It's sad that A*glos divided Punjab in two before going.

i wish you could get along with China, and end that non sense rivalry

all of those things are based you stupid soyboy.

your mom's womb

India and China used to be good friends but then India gave refuge to Dalai Lama and Tibetan people. This triggered Mao and the friendship ended. I wish India and China becomes friends like the old days.

>then India gave refuge to Dalai Lama and Tibetan people
this was a mistake, just imagine if the chinese gave refugee to kashmir separatists

Impossible for now, India is competing to be at the same level of Chinese economy and living quality of Canton so the government can't help but feel competitive against China. Also we have this West vs. China ordeal building up for the next few years.

China and India is bound to have conflicts due to territorial claims anyway.

That's literally what they do. They fund Maoist separatist rebels in India's North-East.

has the indian government accused China because of that?

Chinese were erasing Tibetan culture during it's cultural revolution. Tibet had always been good friends with Indians and their culture is heavily influenced by the philosophies from Nalanda, which were erased from India during Turkic invasions. So we were the only one who they expected to protect them and their culture.

China didn't disputed borders with India until rufuge thing.

>India on the verge of becoming a super power
>Indians are the most populous race
>Indians are the richest in America
>Indians hold the most medicine related, engineering, and business degrees
If anything Muslims were responsible for regression in India

>>Indians are the richest in America
i thought it was the joos

India would be the most interesting part of the world to blend with Abrahamic religion, and I feel like Catholic Christianity is the best method of doing that, but still it sounds like a breeding ground for total heresy with people mixing elements of Hinduism into it. I don't trust the current Church higher ups to handle India responsibly desu considering how poorly they're handling China.

maybe chinese catholics should not be counter revolutionaries hehe

>implying the richest people want to be seen as the richest
idc what community's the richest but protip it's a thousand times easier to pretend you are the poorest possible to avoid taxes then pay everything with your company's money, tax dpts are useless and all accountants are corrupt, absolutely everyone does it

off topic but a funny creative one someone told me about recently is humanitarian shit
what you give to a ngo is in large part deducted from taxes so you fund one yourself (in that persons case it was to teach kids how to read in vietnam or some shit like this) then you put a shitton of money into it
then 90% of the money goes to buying luxury travel hotel restaurant visits and so on everyday for the members, you just get someone to legalize it
if you are lucky you can even convince morons into giving you more money on top of that ahaha

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We'd have industrialized, with or without the British Empire's "help".
I'm not gonna argue about the specifics because as far as I am concerned, that shit happened long ago and I can't be arsed to argue with all the "muh 20% gdp", "muh trains and industry".
All I'm going to say is that Independent India had just under 20% literacy rate. Had to deal with casteism which Ima tell you right now, was exacerbated and manipulated by the British to control a large part of the Indian populace.

India is like what, 71 years old? It's quite young for a country that had to deal with a lot of fucking shit.

Don't see why people care, really. India's irrelevant and will take time to properly develop because we have over 1 billion people, most of them in rural areas.

>We'd have industrialized

Wew. How many Indians are living in Mexico?

hmm
are you an indian living in mexico?

what are you doing in Mexico?

we apparently have 15,000 of them living here

And yet every moortuguese colony is a shithole today. Same with the spanish colonies.
>iberians
>good colonisers
Pick one

>dude morality is all like relative you can't like judge other people maaann
>fuck you for enforcing your morals on them. Don't you know that's morally wrong
Can't stand brainlets like you.

did the british tried to civilize natives as much as iberians did?

Kidhaaa

is this the bong style colonialism?

Why would you pretend to be poor lol

this has to be edited, how can average number of language spoken be below 1, that basically means that some portion of their population doesn't speak any language at all

Don't know. He does apparently Sí

Chillin'. Taking spanish classes at UNAM while I figure out where to do my Masters.