In his WW2 veteran speech today, Macron made a swipe at Trump by stating "Nationalism is Treason"

>american educamation

Nationalism isn't the same as warmongering and massive alliances

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WW1 is entirely the cause of nationalism

He's not wrong in the slightest; Macron is a an unabashed Liberal, and the entire point of Liberalism is utilizing the state to benefit a select few mercantile interests. The current American hegemony, of which Macron is a territorial governor whose job is to ensure that proper profit extraction from a given area is done, is the reigning power in the world.

Trump is an open nationalist, believing that instead individual nations should work towards the benefit of all members of their nations; this is openly against the Liberal world order.

The only thing Macron's speechwriters are wrong about is that they are being paid to write lines that imply that there's anything wrong with committing treason against an unjust state of affairs.

and WW2 too, in both sides of the globe

>If you put your own interests first you lose
based and redpilled

if you define nationalism as including being a warmonger and forming massive defense alliances that cause wars that actually go against the national interest, then sure

I define nationalism as putting your national interests first and being patriotic though

Is Macron scared of the rain?
Trump is.

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And yet at the same time if France didn't do the whole nationalism thingy as hard as the germs did the front wouldn't have held a single day since there wouldn't have been any men there, "why would we fight? what for?" they would have asked.

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Not quite (and I.can't stand Macron). What he actually said was more like "nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism". A subtle but still important distinction

what a stupid response. You know nothing about us.

Based, see people with no moral values get triggered

Ar brave harry fought in afghanistan. Hes real as he stands in the rain.

Cant believe anglos fall for this drivel

Looks like macaroni is going all-out into centralizing power in the EU and weakening it's member nations.

WHY IS HE SO FUCKING SHORT?

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based, as always
will JVPITERVS ever stop humiliating the ogre? it's depressing

>I know nothing about nationalism: the post

WW1 is the result of globalism and the web of alliances that formed.

Brainlet post.

It was caused by a number of factors. Imperialism, defence treaties, overreaction, etc. Unless you're referring to Princip and the Serbian nationalists, in which case I assume you condemn all resistance to foreign occupation as "le irrational nationalism xD".

>Unless you're referring to Princip and the Serbian nationalists
Austria was going to fuck Serbia anyway. Princip just gave them an excuse.

lil boy Macron serves good

you and the french started it because you thought germany in its unified form was a threat.

It was entirely a british mistake that led to the loss of your empire.

How to say nothing but manage to fool idiots into thinking you said something smart : The post.

>Imperialism, overreaction

Yeah stuff that are birthed by nationalism ding dong

Napoleon was a nationalist and despite being a warmongering dictator he did help to spread revolutionary ideals that are still deeply held today. Surly French people like Napoleon.

>Austria was going to fuck Serbia anyway

Why?
Why'd Austria start shit with Serbia?

>all these no IQ brainlets attacking JVPITER

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see retard

>nationalism as putting your national interests first and being patriotic
I saw how this lead to the US lashing out like a wild animal post 9/11. You probably did too but are too drunk on Trump kool aid to link the dots.

Austria wanted to expand their influence in the Balkans, Serbia was cockblocking them. Serbia was also friends with Russia (Austria's rival) and Serbia themselves wanted territories from Austria. Regardless of whether Princip assassinated Ferdinand or not, war was just a matter of time. There was other shit brewing like the British-German rivalry, the German-French rivalry over France lost territory, Italy-Austria rivalry over Italy's territories... It was only just a matter of time and nationalism had really nothing to do with it - just state interests.

I'd argue that WWI was more globalist than anything as the reason it developed from an ordinary war into a global one was precisely because of the intricate web of alliances created between the European states that caused it.

>Trump cares about all members of his nation

That's true if you define Trump's Nation not as USA and the American people but just as the white, non-liberal, gun-loving, heterosexual male people in it.

Don't think he gives a fuck about american negros, spics, chinks, natives, women, gays, liberals, etc. He would walled them out/shoot them up by firing squad if he could.

You're right about Macron and the neoliberal order though.

Based Jupiter. Can't wait to join the francophonie tb h

Ah I see.
Thanks Bulgaria-Kun, I don't know much about WW1.

Any books you'd recommend about that period?
It's kinda weird to imagine Serbia would try to start shit with Austria, I never thought they were powerful, but since they had Russia on their side.....

>I saw how this lead to the US lashing out like a wild animal post 9/11
that was just a display of the faults of democracy though

Do you want to live in a vacuum or something? Like the outside world doesn't exist?

dont talk to me lardass

The entire thing was an exercise in nationalism and how it performs a lobotomy on everyone except a room of 20 people directing everyone else.

This is a classic philosophical critique of nationalism you dumb brainlet. Read some of Orwell's essays.

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All I see is a lot of people making up their own definitions for nationalism.

Putting your national interests first, my ass. The governments couldn't care less. If globalization leads to America being number 1 forever and ever, you best believe Trump would open the borders even wider and lower tarriffs without a second thought.

You guys talk as if you wouldn't be doing what you do now in your lives if your country did put its interests first. You lot would be complaining if your country closed off its borders ala edo Japan (good example?). Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you think your life would be any better otherwise, you're retarded. You'd still wake up at 8, still buy groceries, and you'd still be wagecucking till retirement.

Nationalism is retarded and making the country you're born in a big part of your identity is even sadder. I feel bad for you if you haven't had the chance to explore the world.

patriotism is defencive, nationalism is offencive you brainlet

>poltards still believe there is room for nationalism in a globalised world, all while posting on their chinese smartphones

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You're a moron

>I feel bad for you if you haven't had the chance to explore the world.

How is this a counter-argument to Nationalism, subhuman headless indio?

If the unique cultures of the world are eroded, what good is traveling, nigger?
HAVE YOU personally been to Europe?
Everywhere you go is the fucking same. Nationalism is not the answer to many problems but at least it's more sincere than the garbage we all have right now.

>hi, this product was made in X, therefore submit to it

lmao, pathetic.

Nationalism is probably the MOST insincere position right now. It's craven political opportunism dressed up as a fake retreat to an imagined glorious past by people who never lived it.

That's because your government is shit.
Nationalism is the glue that holds the country together, nationalism is the reason why this country managed to come together, rebuild, and work together even after a deeply traumatizing, bloody, destructive, and polarizing civil war, why it managed to not fall into division even under such pressure as a communist invasion.
Political forces seek to polarize blame the other camp, us vs them, left vs right, nationalism is what brought this country together and allowed the bourgeois and the proletariat to form a government together that served everyone's interests.
But unfortunately western winds have reached this far away place as well and nationalism is becoming less and less popular by the day, the politicians are not working together less and less nowadays.

>are not working together
are working together*

I've been to more places than you can name lol
Also, wasn't a solution or anything. Was just a random jibe lmao

Nothing is getting eroded. You're just paranoid. And you're the last person who should be saying this considering your shithole just elected a president that wants to destroy the amazon, killing off its flora and fauna and causing hundreds of people to relocate.
Cultures evolve. You can't pick and choose a point at which you say "okay, let's stop it here, we like our culture as it is right now."

I repeat, nothing is getting eroded. You're paranoid. You sound like someone who thinks Europe is now a Islamic warzone lmfao
Lay off whatever you're on

>this message was sent from iPhone

BASED Frenchman single-handedly taking Europe back from foreign oppressors and those who would see us divided

Make Europe the vanguard of truth and justice again Macron!
I believe in you!

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>do speech for veteran's day
>BETTER SCREECH ABOUT TRUMP

how can one man successfully live in the entire planets head rent free for so long, with potentially no end in sight? Those feral island niggers that kill everything that comes near probably spend the last few minutes they have left alive when they're shitting themselves to death babbling about how GLUMBZO did this

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Not Mexican.

I'd argue the main reason is that people are social creatures. We want more. We're greedy. We want a better life. We develop together, we build together.

You can big up nationalism all you want, doesn't change the fact that the rulers and what not would sell a dream of a perfect utopia while they enjoyed the fruits of their peoples' labors.
There is a reason why revolutions and coups took place in europe in the past couple of centuries for example.

>But unfortunately western winds have reached this far away place as well and nationalism is becoming less and less popular by the day, the politicians are not working together less and less nowadays.

Fun fact - this is no different from a 1000 years ago. No one works together. Everyone has an ulterior agenda.

Humans are a flawed creature. People will always judge the 'different'. Assuming a homogenous society, blue eyes, blonde hair, all that jazz, I guarantee you people would start discriminating based on height, nose structure etc.

Quite frankly, don't know why you guys care so much. You don't own your culture and it owes you nothing. Nothing is stopping you from doing what you want.

Why is Macron so fucking based? Holy shit.
b&rp

I would define that as patriotism, not nationalism.

Like this guy said, nationalism as in "put your interest first and fuck off foreigners" is a dumb definition. In some cases your national interests are precisely best served by the exact opposite; engaging in multilateralism and opening up to compromise and cooperation with others. Today's Germany is a perfect example of that.

In my view, nationalism is more of a picture, an exalted mental image, an empty but emotional discourse filled with emphasizing collective butthurts, cultural traditionalism, muh heros, muh values, always and systematically in confrontation against "them", the bad guys and root of all evils. Without "them", someone to blame, there can be no nationalism, ironically.

thinking like that is what makes a nation weak
there are no absolute facts in this matter, only opinions, the important thing is making people believe with all their heart that it is true, there needs to be no logic.

>the important thing is making people believe with all their heart that it is true, there needs to be no logic
Don't be surprised when a stiff wind blows down your straw house.

A country for Finnish people by Finnish people, Finland with Finnish culture, Finnish language, Finnish manners and traditions, idk what is nationalism if not that.
That is Finnish nationalism at least, maybe it varies by country.

there is slight difference between nationalism and patriotism mutt
patriotism is proud with your country and nation, but willing to reevaluate anything that seems wrong for good deeds of your country or nation
while nationalism is proud with your country and nation, no matter what

There is no stiff wind, it is a whole world full of straw houses, bricks and wood do not exist in this realm.

So you'd genocide the Samis and Fenno-Swedes?

I feel real bad for chinlets. Please don't use those pics to mock anymore

>In my view, nationalism is more of a picture, an exalted mental image, an empty but emotional discourse filled with emphasizing collective butthurts, cultural traditionalism, muh heros, muh values, always and systematically in confrontation against "them", the bad guys and root of all evils. Without "them", someone to blame, there can be no nationalism, ironically.

That's one way to think about it. Thanks for that.

The wind is thought and discourse. That's why the implication of your rhetoric is to violently clamp down on dissent.

In all honesty, traditionalism is better than both nationalism and patriotism. Fighting to preserve one's traditions, including their literary corpus, makes more sense than dying for something as arbitrary as a nation. By traditions, I refer to both religious and artistic traditions that I view as intimately linked in some respects. It's only in the modern era that retarded materialists place military and scientific history above religious history. When I want to learn about the "subtle essence" of a nation, I look first into its religious tradition and then poetry, literature, & artwork. I don't give a shit about what x or y were doing during such and such war except in the context of understanding such and such poem better. A nation that begins placing more value on tribal allegiance moreso than religion is bound to decay and become decadent, which is precisely what is happening to the West.

Based Macron setting the stage for European unification

Nationalism is bad for markets is what he means.

The more they blur us, the easier it is to sell stuff to us. This also goes for race, gender and other shit they push

Fenno-Swedes are Finnish you dumb leaf, they're the ones that started Finnish nationalism, Samis are irrelevant.

My implication is that there are no truths in this matter, only opinions, every opinion is a straw house.
I suppose there is indeed some wind, opinions change over time, there are interests in encouraging certain opinions and dissuading others, so yes, there is wind among the straw houses but don't try to claim that your house is made of bricks.

>Svenskar äro vi icke, ryssar vilja vi icke bli, låt oss alltså vara finnar

>a particular people, language, culture, traditions and manners

That's called "a country". Simple as. But even so all those things, culture, traditions, manners, people and language change and evolve over time.

But I guess it is different with countries and peoples that have a History of being occupied/annexed by foreign powers and have their culture, language, values imposed on them.

>last 2 world wars
What did he mean by this?

>That's called "a country". Simple as.
well yeah, a nation, borne through nationalism
>But even so all those things, culture, traditions, manners, people and language change and evolve over time.
naturally

>dude things change sometimes so therefore all change is automatically good and also inexorable

That's not what nationalism means. I really hate this baseless nationalism-patriotism dichotomy that became a shitty meme.

If anything the dichotomy should be this:
nationalism - power to the unity of the people based on shared ethnic and cultural ties, the group they were born into (nasci-natio), the individual should be loyal to the group
patriotism - power to the state, to the governing polity and the individual should be loyal to the country, an idea, a power structure, not the actual people

The divide between patriotism and nationalism is whether ethnicity, culture are more important for group loyalty or the citizenship. Anything else is conjuration.

SUPPORT DA TROOPS

>>a particular people, language, culture, traditions and manners
>
>That's called "a country".
No. A country can rule over people with different languages, cultures, traditions and manners. The idea of nationalism came together with republicanism, liberalism and stated that the people should decide whether they want to be together or not, not the rulers should collect their domain and subjects.

Never implied that. Going against it through the lens of "nationalism" is retarded though.

Honestly, it's not even nationalism. Most of whatever is happening is stemming from all the refugees (mostly muslim). People are afraid and annoyed and think their freedoms are being oppressed and taken away by their governments in favor of these refugees. Nothing like that is happening. You'd still be wagecucking for the rest of your meaningless life (as will everyone).

The west and their retarded foreign policy fucked it for everyone ever since the mid 1900s and now when the refugees, whose homes have been bombed by every fucking country in the world wanna leave, they get shat on.

There is no right or wrong here. I'm not saying Germany should take in everyone without a second thought. But it definitely tells you about fucked the human race is in the head.

>you'd still be wagecucking for the rest of your meaningless life (as will everyone).
you dumb fucking spic, 1/4 of the rapes in this country are made by people of MENA origin, that's a fuckload, the chances of my daughter getting raped are 25% higher due to this retardation and that is not an insignificant number.

But in doesn't imply homogenity. Look at France f.i, it doesn't have an homogenous culture, traditions, language, people, etc background. Very few countries have that level of homogenic inbredness.

Brittany ought to be an independent state, fuck frenchies.

>People are afraid and annoyed and think their freedoms are being oppressed and taken away by their governments in favor of these refugees.
I never understood this argument. And it's really insincere. Most people don't hate refugees, because they will somehow in an indirect way they will inconvenience them.
They just don't want them around. I wouldn't want African immigrants or refugees or anything like that. Also if their country is shit, then it's high time that they fix it. The world don't owe anything to fucking Iraqis or Afghans, the same way they don't owe anything to Nazis. They were aggressive, they caused trouble and they got their ass whooped. There are other people, who are aggressive, but they didn't lose a war.

You'd still be wagecucking though. As will your daughter. Globalization won't change a thing except your perception that you're getting persecuted.

> the chances of my daughter getting raped are 25% higher due to this retardation and that is not an insignificant number.

Stay off Jow Forums. Go to school

It is a country. As long as they believe they are, then they are. Culture, traditions, language, and whatever other categories you come up with are pointless memes, because it's all the feels.

If you feel something bigger than that, then you feel. See, Switzerland as most obvious example.

Hard to fix when it's constantly being bombed or manipulated behind the scenes, e.g. Iran and coup led by the US.

>The world don't owe anything to fucking Iraqis or Afghans, the same way they don't owe anything to Nazis.

They don't come to Bulgaria because they think you owe them a home. They come because the US and France are bombing the shit outta Syria and need a place to live.

Frankly, your country doesn't owe you anything more than the means to make a life. You work, get paid for your labor and you pay your taxes. People need to stop defending their imaginary borders. You're not gonna get overrun by africans and muslims.

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>Talking about Trump
why would anyone want to do that? why give him attention?

>the chances of my daughter getting raped are 25% higher

Schooooool

you take 25% off of 4 and you get 3

That was specifically Israeli Nationalism

It's in their blood.