*pierces your plate armour*
heh, nothing personel, kid
*pierces your plate armour*
Andrew Flores
Thomas Phillips
>YFW you remember that the pope banned them at one point because they required no-skill
Luke Jackson
Uhm, crossbow bolts have comparable energy and penetrating power to regular war bows
Which is to say, not enough to pierce steel plates
Nathan Morgan
*pierces your uterus*
Liam Ross
Not likely m8.
Josiah Phillips
The pope banned them in the 12th century. He also banned regular archery and holding tournaments. People didn't care in the slightest, they kept using crossbows, bows and they also held tournaments in the centuries to come.
Dominic Long
Why did the Pope ban them
Brayden Sanchez
>29 Artem autem illam mortiferam et deo odibilem ballistariorum et sagittariorum adversus christianos et catholicos exerceri de cetero sub anathemate prohibemus.
>29 We prohibit under anathema that murderous art of crossbowmen and archers, which is hateful to God, to be employed against Christians and Catholics from now on.
It should also be noted that plate armour wasn't even invented back then.
Joshua Lewis
lul
How the fuck would crossbows be "Hateful to God", isn't it because they came from China?
anyway...
It matters not I guess.
Mason Jenkins
>14 Detestabiles autem illas nundinas vel ferias in quibus milites ex condicto convenire solent et ad ostentationem virium suarum et audaciae temerarie congrediuntur unde mortes hominum et animarum pericula saepe proveniunt omnino fieri interdicimus. Quod si quis eorum ibidem mortuus fuerit quamvis ei poscenti poenitentia et viaticum non negetur ecclesiastica tamen careat sepultura.
>14 We entirely forbid, moreover, those abominable jousts and tournaments in which knights come together by agreement and rashly engage in showing off their physical prowess and daring, and which often result in human deaths and danger to souls. If any of them dies on these occasions, although penance and viaticum are not to be denied him when he requests them, he is to be deprived of a church burial.
Wyatt Nguyen
Crossbows have been around in Europe since the antique period (en.wikipedia.org
Jason Flores
I already posted the reason here , it's literally because they were considered cheap, since they meant a peasant with no training could compete with a trained knight.
Unsurprisingly, the establishment types didn't like that concept.
Jacob Richardson
>since they meant a peasant with no training could compete with a trained knight.
>Unsurprisingly, the establishment types didn't like that concept.
and why would a peasant give any fucks lol
The whole thing just seems stupid... Anyway, what about Long Bows? English longbowman were famous so I assume they were okay with that (of course it's a different time period but still)
Gavin Campbell
>and why would a peasant give any fucks lol
Because he was the pope and this was the 12th Century.
Dominic Stewart
Peasant levies were not generally fielded on the battlefields and if they were, they would not have used crossbows as these were expensive equipment that was mostly fielded by military professionals. And the armoured knight on horseback had much less to fear from missile weapons than the much less securely armoured infantryman in tight formation that was much easier to hit and injure. What should be considered is that the Pope was also a priest. And he saw ballistic weapons cause a lot of harm on the battlefields which he attempted to prevent by banning their usage. The idea that this was some sort of attempt to preserve a societal status quo is a modern interpretation that has no historical basis.
Alexander Jones
>The idea that this was some sort of attempt to preserve a societal status quo is a modern interpretation that has no historical basis.
Why didn't he have a problem with longbows (which require intense training to use properly) then?
Camden Kelly
Archers with normal bows were also banned, as were slings. In canon 14 jousting was also banned. The whole second lateran council was basically just telling Christians to not kill each other.
Aaron Cruz
Did you read the text ()? He banned both crossbows and archery, which means he had a problem with archers too.
Gabriel Smith
cool story
Adam Ross
Joshua Adams
how come English longbowman were a thing then?
I read those posts and didn't find the answer to the question.
Connor Lopez
>entertainment video with hot-glued bolts
Jayden Long
Because nobody cared that the pope banned crossbows and archery. They didn't care that he banned tournaments either.
Carson Richardson
Was the pope against the use of Mercenaries
I really like the aesthetics of Landsknecht
Gabriel Clark
Wrong
Luke Flores
Think of it like a modern arms control treaty: everyone says "oh of course, we'll never develop/use nuclear weapons" but then countries do it anyways.
Brayden Richardson
Not on principle but he probably wasn't too happy when they sacked his city.
Jordan Campbell
Anthony Reyes
lol
Were Mercenaries seen as subhuman by other troops? Or did they not get in contact with each other
Bentley Kelly
ugh, that managed to somewhat perforate the plate though, I mean, not completely, but there's a hole there so.... Also, I cannot imagine that a knight would remain stable on a horse if hit by that, aaaaand, if that hit him in the head, he'd likely pass out.
Landon Cox
Yeah, men obviously died in battle, but the nonsense that's shown in movies (men hacking/shooting/stabbing through armor as if it's nothing) is retarded. Armor was expensive and nobody would wear it if it didn't drastically improve your chances of survival.
Jordan Howard
Warhammers made plate almost obsolete though didn't they.
Just wack a nigga and be done with it.
Brayden Kelly
fuck ur shitty plate armor nigga lol
Joseph Thompson
wouldn't the chainmail below block that?
also, you'dn eed to be pretty close to shank a nigga with that.
Hunter Lee
it was meant to be the final blow to someone already wounded
Kayden Stewart
I don't think any general claim can be made in that direction. It would also heavily depend on the time period. In general, the profession of the mercenary (and later the soldier - well into the 18th century) was looked down upon by society. It was seen as something mostly scoundrels do to make a quick buck. In that regard it is possible that there were some animosities, but one should keep in mind that as time went on it became a rare sight that a prince would bring troops of his own exclusively and from the late middle ages onwards the presence of mercenaries was the norm and it would not be out of question for them to represent the majority of the troops on the battlefield.
Charles Allen
It had more to do with guns. Sometime in the 1600s armies started abandoning armor, particularly infantry.
If it was a very tight weave, yes.
Xavier Stewart
That depends on what you mean by 'plate armour'. The cuirass has been around longer than the war hammer.
Lucas Stewart
Also, it's actually not that easy to penetrate plate armour with war hammer. While a war hammer might be your best bet, it may still take quite a few hits and due to the deflective shape the armour was given it would likely take quite a few hits before you manage to actually penetrate it.
Joseph Sanders
pain in the ass to reload
Jonathan Hernandez
Literally a meme. As said they aren't much more powerful than a high end longbow.
Turns out the power stroke is as important as the draw force.
Jonathan Ortiz
well a hit in the head would still fuck you up real bad I imagine
Lincoln Morris
Yes, but certainly a lot worse when you're not wearing armour.
Zachary Robinson
that's pretty much the only chance you have to take a man in full plate out quickly
Evan Campbell
seems like game-over for that guy.
Lucas Gutierrez
Lucas Russell
so, is it possible to make any comparison to today's currency and have an estimate on how much it'd cost to have full plate armour?
Like, is that something le 1% could have?
Or would I as a middle class be able to afford it?
How expensive was plate? I know swords were expensive which is why Vikings prefered Spears and Axes so I'm just trying to get an idea here.
Brandon Carter
Evan Torres
Ethan Wood
yikes
Zachary Gonzalez
*blocks your path*
Anthony Williams
Justin Smith
*longbows you*
Bentley White
poor guys...
Kayden Robinson
I dont know dude, being a pikeman must've been shite.
Brody Foster
Because the FUCKING Fr*gs killed their own archers.
>During the Battle of Crécy, in August 1346, upwards of 5,000 Genoese crossbowmen were employed by the French in the first line against the English. At around 4 PM, a sudden rainstorm arose. The English longbowmen simply removed their bowstrings, and stored them under their water-resistant leather caps to keep them dry. Crossbows, on the other hand, cannot be unstrung and restrung without tools. The strings of the crossbows thus became stretched upon being drenched by rain. When the rain-soaked and now-stretched crossbow strings were used roughly an hour later during the initial attack against the emplaced and defending English, the crossbows were largely rendered useless, with their maximum ranges and bolt speeds greatly reduced from their normal performance. When the Genoese crossbowmen came under heavy fire from the English longbowmen, the Genoese commander, Ottone Doria, ordered his troops to retreat. The French knights behind the Genoese crossbowmen saw this as cowardice and cut them down as they retreated. Most of the crossbowmen were killed, their commander included.
Adrian Barnes
*blocks your arrow*
Zachary Baker
>so, is it possible to make any comparison to today's currency and have an estimate on how much it'd cost to have full plate armour?
I couldn't tell you specifically, but it is important to remember that the price of armor varied greatly over time and from place to place. This also applies to swords too. They were expensive during the viking era, but advances in technology made them significantly cheaper in the middle ages.
Jose Roberts
Wrong, it was a cushy job because the pike square was invincible. When opposing commanders saw the Swiss mercenaries, they avoided them, so the Swiss got paid to stand around doing nothing.
Blake Sanchez
sounds like a pretty shitty thing to do to your troops.
Sebastian Collins
This trigger the bong
Justin Ross
>so, is it possible to make any comparison to today's currency and have an estimate on how much it'd cost to have full plate armour?
In general it is believed that a full suit of plate armour that was individually tailored, as it was worn during the 15th - 17th century, was mostly affordable to the military elite, i.e. wealthy mercenaries and upwards. And there was technically no upper boundary on the prizes, so a prince would have all kinds of elaborate gildings, etchings, engravings, flutings, etc. put on his armour to make it stand out, while a less wealthy individual may have gone with something more simple. As time went on, the production of armour also became significantly cheaper - same with swords - most likely due to the advancements in metallurgy, machinery, manufacture, division of labour, etc.
Even less wealthy individuals could have most likely at least afforded a helmet and a cuirass and a pair of gauntlets.
However, good armour was still an investment, but as I said earlier: most people who fought on the battlefields were entrepreneurs of sorts. A mercenary who made an investment in good equipment and training in a fighting school could demand higher pay - so it may have been well worth it.
Juan Brown
Jose Cook
Basé et rougepilulé
Jace Davis
Never saw that kind of armor/clothing. Looks really cool, what period is that from?
How do you know all this stuff?
It's fascinating. I love European history.
Jayden Martinez
>How do you know all this stuff?
It's a hobby.
Brody Perry
It's written XIV century so probably that period
Leo Lewis
Pikemen pretty much brought the age of the mounted knight to an end.
Adam Richardson
Really brutal, not better than taking a bullet
Levi Foster
It would rather say that the organised infantry formation ended the predominance that heavy cavalry had during the high middle ages. Heavy cavalry played a vital role on the battlefields well into the 19th century.
Bentley Mitchell
Those were probably the luckier ones.
Ryder Ortiz
Or a cannon ball.
Parker Scott
Lucas Carter
Hopefully they carried something to commit suicide if that failed to kill you instantly.
Isaac Richardson
dont think you would be conscious from a hit like that
Blake Lewis
I'm a moron, didn't notice that.
Thanks.
Did officers have to get into the thick of battle?
Eli Brooks
The bong executes with cannons called blowing from a gun.
Zachary Brown
Liveleak Brazil/India/China has taught me that you can lose half of your entire body and still be "awake", whether consciousness still remains is something I'm not entirely sure though, but I hope not.
Anthony Evans
>Did officers have to get into the thick of battle?
It should be considered that military hierarchy wasn't as formalised back then as in the modern period and was still in development, but the men who locally gave orders also had to be nearby of course, so they would also end up in the midst of battle.
Jace Moore
In any case, it's getting a bit late here, so I'll leave now. Good night everyone.
James Anderson
*pierces your mom's cunt*
heh, nothing personel, kid