Is Napoleon known as a hero or just a tyrant in France??

>He killed millions.
Top kek

A benevolent dictator would place his responsibility to those he governs above the lust for personal glory. What Napoleon did was violate any kind of mutually beneficial relationship he might've had with his subjects, and he held power through naked force and personal appeal. He was a charismatic and brave man, for sure, fearsome on the battlefield and surely the most prominent man of his age - but that does not make him a good ruler.

The reason we stil revere him in some ways to this day is his raw military ability, which has nothing to do with his virtues as a statesman. Without personal battlefield success, he would be nothing.

hero

>no greater a cause than to
explain?
can you prove it?
is protecting your country from a nth coalition against it "satisfying your own vanity"?

t. mega cuck craving for anglo cock

When a series of wars is named after you, it's not unreasonable to assume you had more than a little to do with starting and prolonging it.

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>how dare he defend his country

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google napoleonic code

>protecting your country
There would have been no need to "protect" his country if he did not claim exorbiant territorial concessions after each victory, and craft designs for the next with the hostilities scarcely over.

its other european countries who wanna have wars with the french because revolution and human rights was something threatening power houses, they get rekt, napo forced legal system, and know you live in a free society thanks to him, what a tyrant !

Kind of a moot point when you force the nation on an endless warpath.

Die Weltseele zu Pferde.

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>country a attack country b
>country a lose
>country b ask country a possesions for casuality compensations
>muuuuuuh country b is evil reeeeeeee

He never attempted to reach peace by any means other than naked force. He could never have dislodged Britain, and Britain would never have made peace with his plans to dominate Europe.

>country b attack country a
>country a win
>country a take so many posessions as to leave country b crippled and disgraced
>country b make war against country a again as soon as an opportunity arises
>waaaaaah traitors

Foreign policy is only ever a matter of realpolitik. Bonaparte could have settled into position among Europe's monarchs, if that was all he desired, likely keeping France's new posessions in the Rhineland and the Low Countries. Instead, he went too far and tried to turn Austria, Prussia and Spain into client states. That was his error, trying to become master of Europe when he lacked the strength to do it.

Great commander, military genius, amazing leader.
I respect him unironically.

>he killed millions
To save billions

;_;7

This. European had such high birth rates back then, it would always lead to wars. Napoleon actually stabilized and bettered a lot of regions with his policies in the long-term.

chat shit get banged, you really must be a weak cuck to believe nothing would happen after the whole europe allied to attack france and miserably lost.

LMAO

UK was just butthurt and couldn't stop building coalitions

>German mentality

Thank fuck neither of you will ever get to run a country, becuase I feel sorry for your hypothetical subjects if this is the extent of your strategical reasoning ability.

>country a take so many posessions as to leave country b crippled
show an example?

He was a great ITALIAN BVLL

thank fuck youre from an irrelevant country otherwise people would unironically believe youre right when youre so damn wrong.

>two decades of war
>Nappy is still loved when he came back
makes you think

He's a hero in Poland

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Legions_(Napoleonic_period)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_Is_Not_Yet_Lost
Nothing unusual, he wanted independence for the Poles and fought side by side with them.
He's even in your fucking anthem
>Bonaparte has given us the example
>Of how we should prevail.

>muh country
you concede, ok
Fucked the Habsburgs up the ass.

Honestly though, it was the blatant absorption of Switzerland and Italy that made the bongs mad at you, and which is why the war was inevitably going to end the way it did. If Napoleon had been content to keep to within more or less France's traditional sphere of inlfuence, the peace of 1802 might have lasted long enough for status quo to cement itself.

An evil tyrant and the Hitler of his time, don't worry my continental friends the anglos will always be here to protect from autistic manlets who bring nothing but pain and destruction!

>Assburger repeatdely attacks you
>GEE WHY YOU CRIPPLE THEM

>you concede, ok
not by the very slightest, you just assume things out of your autism my poor eastern flag

>be soldier under Napleon
>get to march all over the place winning victory after victory, rape&pillaging as you go
>always plenty of booze and money
vs
>be soldier after valois restoration
>lucky if still employed
>stuck in despondent garrison duty and constantly aware that you've lost

yeah it really boggles the mind why all the 90IQ robber rabble wanted their head honcho back doesn't it.

blame european countries to have allied to attack France and have miserably failed.

the next time Poland will get liberated by another european warmongering lunatic ask him to stop and do not attack russia.

Killing tyrants and feudalists is a right not a sin.

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if you cannot destroy them, you better make sure they aren't strongly motivated to stab you in the back
keep making a fool of yourself

But they won in the end. What is there to blame them for? You should be blaming Bonaparte for not dealing with them properly.

And that did not work since they kept attacking us, that's why they got crippled after.

>keep making a fool of yourself
keep coming back with no arguments than just
>muuuuh he was bad because he actually asked for compensations after we attacked him and lost

>they won in the end
after 6, SIX coalitions lmao

i'm still not convinced how napoleon did all that out of vanity, latvia

if you think this is my point you are legitimately retarded my dude
and that's why Napoleon ended up defeated, and his nation ruined. Because he couldn't figure out how to make a sufficiently enticing peace offer to end the war. You can swear on rights and wrongs all day, history won't give a shit.

>ur dur
are you legit retarded ?

THEY DID NOT WANT PEACE

i guess he shouldn't have asked for compensation and let the other countries strong enough to attack again?
with his logic i guess the allies are to blame for WW2 lol

Napoleon lost because General Grouchy betrayed him, I bet the jews were behind this

He did not have to absorb Switzerland, dissolve the Holy Roman Empire, or partition Italy among his generals. Remember, the reason Britain didn't choose to honor the 1802 peace was that they felt Napoleon was going too far and posing too much of a threat to the established order of things. After any of his spectacular victories he could've stepped back and made some concessions. But he never did, and he lost the war with no lasting gains to show for it.

he's so dumb that's pathetic, maybe he will point out a point in history when a country won a war and just came back home with the wining trophy only lmao

>partition Italy among his generals
there were no italy back then lmao

How about Louis?

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nobody "wants" war. There are just times when people feel their goals will be adequately achieved through military force. There have been many wars concluded victoriously with far lesser expenditure of life than Napoleon's attempt. But his enemies always felt him too great of a threat to not engage despite numerous defeats on the battlefield.

No offense but you sound like a pussy
Are you a student in international law by any chance?

>the reason Britain didn't choose to honor the 1802 peace was that they felt Napoleon was going too far and posing too much of a threat to the established order of *their* things
fixed

Your thinking is so hilariously simplistic. Like a bunch of hillbillies trying to act smart.

French people are monsters sometimes, and has a zero value for a human life. I bet it's Rome fault.

war are simplistic tho, you lost, you face it, you don't whine like you do right now.

and that's from personal vanity instead of other objectives because...?

great statesman lost in this mess of a century
he's been a bit forgotten but people generally remember him badly because of the black legend victor hugo built around him out of butthurt

outstanding argument

Want to smack the Britain, but can't.

>you sound like a pussy
See, this argument would make sense if Napoleon could defeat all his enemies. As we can plainly see, he couldn't. So instead of flinging countless men under his command to their deaths he should have instead considered this fact and worked out a solution with it in mind. Pretending the world is something it ain't is invariably a bad strategy.

I might sound like a pussy, but you sound like an idiot.

>The English are merchants of human flesh, they pay the others to fight in their place
Francis II

t. Russia

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Here's the solution for UK
>kys and go back to monarchy, fuck the people lmao, don't give any idea to our own people

>See, this argument would make sense if Napoleon could defeat all his enemies. As we can plainly see, he couldn't
>won wars vs 5 consecutive coalitions with no support
>he couldn't

I don't know who to blame, people who takes money or people who pay money for killing.

>other objectives
what other objectives did it serve if it ended up prolonging the war and undermining his position? If he was emperor of France, what fucking purpose does holding on to territories outside of France do if it jeopardizes the peace and your own authority?

No one cares what you think he should or shouldn’t have done.

you usually fight for what you have not, mercenaries were fighting for money, england for glory.

At least we don't call tyrants a hero. Mostly.

But he lost, nigger. He was defeated. The war ended with his enemies firmly in control of the continent and him in exile on some island in bumfuck nowhere.

>what fucking purpose does holding on to territories outside of France do if it jeopardizes the peace and your own authority?
are you retarded ? every fucking wars in history ended up with land claims

Ummmm sweaty u sure?

Cool nice hell, you've got here. And I wanted to see a space travel timeline.

yeah, he lost, after countless coalitions, great, you're still buttfucked about it 200 years later tho lmao

The french and the russian truly are the same people

Yep every ruler bashing previous ones into shit.

not an argument

Napoleon failed. He lost. He betrayed his people's trust in him. Idiots like you worship this failure because it gives you an illusion of strength, but the matter of fact is that a whole bunch of people died for nothing

>He betrayed his people's trust in him
how so ? revolution ideas were still preserved tho

No.

See, this is my point. You faggots argue with me because you feel like you should, but you lack an adequate grasp of what we're even discussing to begin with. You know a thing or two about the form of war, but nothing of its substance.

>lmao just don't revolt if you're not gonna suceed ahah, like just stay a subject of the russian empire

he wanted to ensure French dominance in Europe and force Europe into peace with France as its leading nation as he believed France was in a very good natural position to do so

He said himself
>There must be a superior power which dominates all the other powers, with enough authority to force them to live in harmony with one another - and France is best placed for that purpose
>Europe will breathe only when these affairs with Russia and Spain are over. Only then can we reckon on a true peace; reviving Poland will consolidate it; Austria will take care of more of the Danube and less of Italy. Finally, exhausted England will resign herself to share the world's trade with continental vessels. My son is young, you have to prepare him for a quiet reign.
>France without Ostend and Antwerp would not be on equal footing with the other states of Europe. England and all the other powers recognized these limits at Frankfurt. The conquests of France within the rhine and the alps cannot be considered as compensation for what Austria, Russia and Prussia have acquried in Poland and Finland, and England in Asia... I have accepted the Frankfurt proposals but it is probable the allies have other ideas

A ruler's task is to do what is right by his subjects. To protect his nation and make it prosper. Napoleon's rule ended with France devastated, under foreign occupation and humiliated.

And Alexander died young letting his empire crumble and Cesar was murdered by his adoptive son before he could become emperor.

What your tiny brain can’t understand is that tragedy is a necessity of great men.
Now go fuck yourself with your moral view of what happened 200 years ago

>See, this is my point. You faggots
yeah i get your point, you just hate the french flags

Maybe, but far more likely it's just a post-factum rationalization given by him to justify his desire to rule. I would pay less attention to the things rulers say, and more to what they do.

I don't even think Napoleon really has a 'bad' reputation in England so would be somewhat surprised to find out if he had one in France apart from the bad connotations that come with massive military success.

>A ruler's task is to do what is right by his subjects
but his subjects were craving for wars tho, until we were winning nobody wanna this to stop, why would they ?

You’re not half as smart as you think you are

>but far more likely it's just a post-factum rationalization given by him to justify his desire to rule
source: you

>Cesar was murdered by his adoptive son
god you brainlet
>tragedy is a necessity of great men.
empty rhetoric to rouse brainlets like you

>it's an irrelevant flag wanna have arguments by calling his interlocutors fags or brainlet or retarded
lmao