Why do Mexicans worship this ugly whore?

Why do Mexicans worship this ugly whore?

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We don't, people like Diego Rivera much more. Foreigners are the ones who worship her. Her father was from Germany.

We don't, it's just liberal white american girls who like her.
Basically this

N-nice hair

She's one of our great artists, seriously you're now throwing Frida under the bus?

She is very overrated desu. People like her because they see her as a woke feminist, but in reality she was as much of a scumbag as Rivera, who also was a scumbag but a better artist. Mexico has better female painters.

I'll admit she is iconic, but it is a reality foreigners appreciate here more than the people inside Mexico.

Making even a worldwide respected artist about politics. Such an american post.

>people inside Mexico
which people inside Mexico exactly? Muralismo failed in its intended purpose of making painting a popular art, it's usually a thing for elites and intellectuals and I see more retrospectives on Frida than on Rivera in places like San Carlos or Carrillo Gil, perhaps you'd like to enlighten me

>Why do Mexicans worship this ugly whore?
A quienes me refiero ne les gusta por su arte si no por sus posiciones politicas
A mi no me disgusta su arte pero como persona con ella no comparto nada.

Diego Rivera was based

>I see more retrospectives on Frida
Recent fad due to the aforementioned desu
And rivera's work with alcatraces is super fucking common decoration all over the country, he was not only about muralism.

stos chicanos jsaksjaksj

>Recent fad
No dumbass, Frida being disabled has always given her a pass with seniors and much of the middle class, her art being unusual and transgressive has always been a favorite of the educated classes regardless of international fads, you speak as if feminism was a foreign import, what about Sor Juana?

>decoration
Yeah, that's the problem, you're coming from that perspective, it used to be near universal in Mexico to have murano crystal and lladro porcelain in living rooms even tho I doubt either was much appreciated as an art.

>Muralismo failed in its intended purpose of making painting a popular art, it's usually a thing for elites and intellectuals
>her art being unusual and transgressive has always been a favorite of the educated classes
Pick a side, dumb ass.
Not a single Frida work.

huffingtonpost.com.mx/2018/01/16/hola-nostalgia-reconoce-las-obras-de-arte-en-las-portadas-de-los-libros-de-primaria_a_23334944/
>I doubt either was much appreciated as an art.
Irrelevant, the point is Diego Rivera has always been more relevant, by miles, inside the country. You can talk about this with actual art curators, they will tell you the same.

>you speak as if feminism was a foreign import
I'm not against feminism. I like Sor Juana's and Rosario Castellanos's work, both women who were actual feminists. People only consider Frida a feminist because she cheated back on Rivera with Trotsky. WOW. She was a scumbag on his level, both were made for each other, nothing to celebrate.

She's also a Jew btw

...

>She was a scumbag
edgy right winger notions of morality have no place in art discussions, that's irrelevant

>Pick a side
I fail to see how her being favored by the educated contradicts with muralismo failing amongst the masses

>Diego Rivera has always been more relevant
Not individually, he's interchangeable with Orozco and Siqueiros for the average Mexican and art curators I know will admit to that, Frida's art OTOH is readily identifiable, if for nothing else because she plastered her face all over it

Only Leftists/feminist do, funny seeing how she was the very first culture vulture larping as a native when she was german/hungarian

I'm not a right-winger, but whatever.
Frida is relevant for all the wrong reasons, NOT because of her work

1. She was associated with Rivera
2. She was associated with Trotsky
3. A bloo bloo bloo, she had polio
4. A bloo bloo bloo Rivera cheated on her with her sister
5. Le unibrow
6. Le monkeys and xolos

She is iconic, and her life is much more interesting than her work. But her work is overrated and she isn't mainly known because of it, and she is NOT a feminist. Foreigners considering as such because they don't know any other Mexican painter, which we have plenty, including female, is an insult.

>culture vulture
Name me a couple of non criollo widely known/respected artists

>Only Leftists
That's not a minority in Mexico but the default

Armando Manzanero, Cantinflas, Diego Rivera

>She is iconic
That's the one thing that matters for art, yes her life story is a big part of that, get over it, there's a number of European masters for whom you could say the same.

>her work is overrated
Fair enough, I don't mean to argue opinions, the objective fact remains her art commands the highest price amongst Mexican painters, and yes a big part of that is precissely because she's iconic

Rivera was Jewish, Manzanero is a pop artist
Cantinflas I'll give you, he was Tepiteño, tho arguably he was mestizo

Neither are criollos, which is what you asked.
Ignacio Manuel Altamirano.

Frida prolly got more pussy than you ever did.

Altamirano is based tho not widely known outside intellectual circles, like pretty much 90% of writers, we struggle with people reading Rulfo and Azuela as it is while Paz is sadly enough beyond the masses on his choice of genres

That was not the point however, what I wanted to do precissely was avoid racializing the argument and the point that only the indigenous are authentically Mexican is bs

Isn't El Zarco an obligatory read in school?

Is not the being criollo part , its the IMMA PLAY DRESS UP WITH NATIVE CLOTHES, WE WUZ AZTEC DIKES N SHIET

>That's not a minority in Mexico but the default

Chilangos default, im from Guadalajara we are hypocritical catholic conservatives that suck Dick on saturday but confess on sunday , thank you very much

It wasn't for me but I'd love if it was

>DRESS UP WITH NATIVE CLOTHES
No such thing, I had to do half a dozen outfits for school projects as a kid, it's Mexican culture, leaving aside traditions like Tehuana embroidery only survived through the patronage of posh ladies you're as entitled to indigenous clothes as they're to put on a suit and a tie, it's part of MESTIZO culture to which
Frida did belong regardless of her specific ancestry.

We're not Americans ffs

Bajío is weird but that aside most Mexicans are decidedly on the side of social justice when it comes to economics, poor people complaining about gibs like Americans do and aplauding tax cuts for the rich is fortunately not a thing

Why don't you kys chicano fuck? Nobody cares what you think

KYS criollo fuck

You're the one LARPing dumbass

>Tehuana embroidery only survived through the patronage of posh ladies
Really?

Yes, actual tehuanas could not actually afford what their work sells for nowadays if they didn't make it themselves

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>the objective fact remains her art commands the highest price amongst Mexican painters
I somehow ignored most of your post.
No, Diego Rivera works have the highest price now. And you just admitted she isn't know because of her work. Even most of the people who worship her only ever post PICTURES of her with some of her edgy quotes about being a snowflake.

And lastly, Rivera himself has enormous credit in making the Catrina such an important part of our culture due to his painting, even if Posada is credited with creating the character.

i wanna throw this bitch into a vat of acid

I stand corrected, Kahlo did hold up the record up until recently
edition.cnn.com/style/article/diego-rivera-painting-world-record-kalho/index.html
And she is known for her work ffs, it being iconic doesn't mean people don't know what her style looks like and it is very much unique.

How most people behave in social media hardly has a thing to do with the intellectual scene does it?

how popular is Jorge Gonzalez Camarena

Get triggered more Chicano, indigenous Mexicans have never been triggered snowflakes preocupied withn misappropiation and any such cases are people brainwashed by foreign "liberals"

You gotta go back

You're saying indios are cucks

And that's not a good thing. They should rise up and kill Criollos

She embraced the ugly whore thing and gave it a different meaning. What have you done, OP?

He's one of the better known muralistas, I'd say very much, personally one of my favorites

>They should rise up and kill Criollos
We no longer have a caste system, everyone is a Mexican today ffs

Everyone is a Mexican on paper but they're not treated equally

>inb4 we are classist not racist!!!

Even illegal white americans and europeans are ignored while central americans, asians, and africans get hunted down.

The points I'm trying to make are very simple: people in Mexico, not intellectuals, didn't worship her until a very recent fad, mainly started ever since Salma Hayek's movie. And even then, Rivera has always been more appreciated inside Mexico than she was, both within the general population and in intellectual circles, and now even to how much their works are worth. She holding the record, which she no longer has, was mainly because she is much more known outside the country, and thus, has a bigger audience. Her work is overrated, and she really isn't more relevant than Rivera INSIDE Mexico. These are facts.
>most people behave in social media hardly has a thing to do with the intellectual scene does it
What most people does has to do with how popular things are, yes. And again, man, people have Rivera's works everywhere, in homes, in government buildings, in the fucking Rockefeller Centre (at least for a while), while you can't say the same about Kahlo. She is not interesting because of her work, but because of her life, and the people who worship her care more about her, as a person, than about her work. So yes, this fucking matters in an argument about whose work is more relevant.

>classist not racist
I've never supported that tripe, yes there is racism in Mexico and no, it isn't a minor issue but your mischaracterizing our migration enforcement and race baiting to divide Mexicans isn't a solution.

You two fucking idiots are so fucking annoying.

This doesn't mean she wasn't relevant, btw, just that she isn't worshipped as much as she is everywhere else, by an extremely long shot too.

Who's more liked/respected in Mexico; Octavio Paz or Carlos Fuentes?

only feminists and people that don't realize how overrated her art is worship her

Octavio Paz, unfortunately. He was a self-hating cunt at the service of the PRI party. Carlos Fuentes is the superior writer but he isn't more relevant.

Let's leave the masses out of it because it's getting cringe and ridiculous, both Diego and Frida always had their supporters and more often than not they tend to be the same, but I've got a bone to pick with you on "relevance" it's not man the destroyer (can't believe you brought up rockefeller plaza on the positive discussing Rivera) but pictured, bland and quaint indigenista paintings that make for good decoration in the exoticist stereotype category tourists like and that people with no taste can use the same as still lifes and landscapes for decoration with the excuse it being Rivera somehow redeems their panache.

That's why you see it in governemnt buildings anywhere, because our political class has no taste (eg Sebastian) but they can buy the appearance of that with Rivera's name and so can foreigners who otherwise would have to deal with ethnic style paintings now being seen as racist.

Popularity is not a measure of significance, at least most people who like Frida try and make an effort to uinderstanjd the dialectic in her work. And I personally like Rivera better for the record, it isn't about that.

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>Carlos Fuentes is the superior writer
No he wasn't, it's difficult to compare directly as they were both in different genres but regardless of whether you disagree with Paz his work is consistent, Fuentes churned out a lot of garbage in his later years.

Politics in literature is tripe, Novo is big with the Coyoacan crowd despite unironically supporting the government in 68 (which Paz did not) on just he was a local and they're too ignorant to tell. Fuentes jumped in the whole Poniatowska, Monsivais bandwagon and so he's viewed as closer to the people than Paz who wrote poetry (which most people don't like) or essays (which most people find boring)

When Fox did the burrada of recommending the novels of Paz more Mexicans than not laughed only after the joke was explained to them.

>at least most people who like Frida try and make an effort to uinderstanjd the dialectic in her work
Patently false, most people who like Frida care more about the "postureo" than about understanding her work. Often because they mislabel her as a feminist, which she was objectively not, and because people love to romanticize the le sad tormented artist.

This is not even about how much you like or don't like her work. It's obvious I don't personally like it, but that's not what this is about. This is about Frida not being worshipped in Mexico. And she is not, in Mexico she is less relevant than he was, regardless of everything else.

He was
>Fuentes churned out a lot of garbage in his later years
Irrelevant when most of Paz's work was garbage in any year. But we aren't here to argue opinions, now are we?

>in Mexico she is less relevant than he was
Not in the official discourse, Mexico likes to idolize women (eg la virgen) and Frida is more of an icon than Diego in much the same Sor Juana is despite most people having never actually read her works and knowing only te one poem.

But that's also being too cynical, poseurs don't usually perceive themselves as such and people do try, as pathetic as their atempts may seem to you. They'll go to her home in Coyoacán and stare quietly at the paintings and then have some heated discussion in a café which really isn't all that different from what actual intellectuals do.

As for her not being a feminist you can't be serious, she certainly so in the literal Trotskian egalitarian way and the Beauvoir/Olmedo old school, she moved in intellectual circles and was a suffragette herself, women could not vote within her lifetime.

I'll admit his poetry was ok. I strongly dislike his essays, and not because they are boring.
I also don't like Monsivais nor Poniatowska. I'm just a bitter cunt who dislikes a lot of things desu

>But we aren't here to argue opinions, now are we?
True, tho that isn't to say I have to hold much respect for your opinions if you consider Paz to be garbage. Go jerk off to Aura, amybe one day you'll find yourself reading grown up books.

Frida only started getting more important in Mexico relatively recently. And again, she wasn't more relevant historically than Rivera, his work is everywhere, from Día de Muertos, to children's books, to people's homes, to again, everything already mentioned. Him being more relevant than Frida inside Mexico used to be a common complaint by SJW types who care more about writing "todxs/todes" than real problems.
>Mexico likes to idolize women
Somewhat true, like Josefa Ortiz and "her husband". But then again, you also have examples like la Malinche who gets extremely demonized.
His essays were bad for a number of reasons, it's apparent he hated himself, Mexico and Mexicans very strongly. He made extremely big and wrong generalizations about a lot of topics, in a very mean spirited and snobbish way.

¿Por qué no hablamos en Español? No hay mucho que discutir si vas a ignorar por completo lo que escribí en cuanto a la popularidad de la obra de Rivera.

En cuanto a los ensayos de Paz estas criticando sus opiniones, no su oficio como escritor.

She was the OG art hoe

The ugliest banknote of the century.

>No hay mucho que discutir si vas a ignorar por completo lo que escribí en cuanto a la popularidad de la obra de Rivera.
Pues es que no me interesa discutir su obra porque no es el tema.
>Paz
El tipo era una basurilla de persona, y a diferencia de Rivera, su basurez se refleja en su obra. Tampoco me interesa debatir opiniones. El user preguntó quién era más relevante y le respondí: Paz.

Anyway, ya me voy a dormir. Maldito sueño.

Pues puta madre que pinche apertura mental para discutir temas de cultura, te expliqué perfectamente por que a la gente sin gusto le gusta Rivera (que no significa que Rivera sea malo) si no quieres contextualizar o entender adelante.

Esta pinche actitud de soy muy chingon por que pretendo ser ultra-critico es lo que me parace una mamada de pseudo-intelectual ¿Cuantos putos libros has leido de Paz? Pero es "basurilla" por que no comparte tus opiniones. No marches wey.

Y hay que agregar, no le veo el punto a seguir discutiendo entonces.

No sé, creo que tienes problemas de confianza o algo. Siempre a la defensiva. Que vamos, bien podrías ignorar los posts de los demás pero eliges no hacerlo, y además te enojas. Yo aquí muy tranquilo, la verdad. La realidad es que Rivera es y ha sido más importante independientemente del mal o buen gusto de la gente, y viniendo de alguien que defiende tan fervientemente la obra de Kahlo y Paz, me da muy igual tus opiniones con respecto al gusto. No entiendo qué discutes tbdesu.