Theory 1: We are fucked and this is a multi-year bear market. Bitcoin tanks to 3-4k and bounces around there for a year or two (or three).
Theory 2: Smart money is holding a shit ton of BTC and is manipulating the market to pick up cheap alts. We'll see a nice BTC rebound toward the end of this year followed by a full-retard altcoin run.
Which is it?
3: OP is a faggot
this
both are bad theories because that is what the entire social media hivemind sentiment thinks
4: Bitcoin is a speculative bubble, like tulips or beanie babies.
It's a supremely successful one, mind you. Just like during the dot com bubble people are blinded by technological mumbo jumbo they don't understands... but ultimately it goes to zero just like Pets.com.
What is your alternative hypothesis?
Adding in that most of the speculation is driven by people trying to dodge taxes or do illegal shit plus normies who hear "buy Bitcoin get rich" and buy in without knowing a damn thing.
This is why we had the December crash. Law dodgers in Korea went nuts for Bitcoin. Chinese normies saw the price rise and jumped in. Korea clamped down on BTC exchanges. Everyone went "oh shi-" and sold. BOOM- BTC loses half value rapidly.
Both are wrong. It's far from that simple.
What is your alternative hypothesis?
>Adding in that most of the speculation is driven by people trying to dodge taxes
You can't dodge taxes with crypto if you intend on turning it back into fiat.
U r dum
Truthfully, I've been shorting BTC this whole time. I’ve been teaching others and I’ve gotten my neighbors and coworkers into shorting the market and we are all making a lot of money together shorting BTC and Ethereum. I’m really popular now among my friends because I’m making so much money from shorting the market, a lot of them are making accounts in bitmex now because of me. I can’t wait for this bear market to continue for the next 5 years until I have enough money from shorting to buy a house and hopefully a nice car. Shorting is the best guaranteed way to make money in the longterm
Dumbasses still try. Usually they use sites to find people and sell in person for fiat or just go "lol, they can't find me" and sell over exchanges but never claim anything.
Nobody is interested in using Bit Coins or any of the retarded alts, people bought because the price was rising, they remembered they were going to buy some years ago but didn't and finally FOMOd in. Now they remember how much money they lost and are not going to fall for it again.
This. The time to buy is when your normie friends are getting rich shorting bitcoin.
>Dumbasses still try. Usually they use sites to find people and sell in person for fiat or just go "lol, they can't find me" and sell over exchanges but never claim anything.
If you dodge taxes this way, you can't actually use the money for anything other than nigger shit. You can't put it back into the system.
Actually you can. It's a form of money laundering. Buy things with bitcoin, sell them privately for cash. It's illegal, but it's not impossible.
see What are you going to do with that big pile of cash? Nothing, because the IRS will literally put you in prison for that. Unless you're just buying TVs in cash all day long and covering every wall in your house with a hundred TVs, you can't do shit with that money.
Only illegal where one is ruled by Jews.
rollo 19-21
Bitcoin to 3k
Yep. That doesn't stop them, though.
Some are dumb enough to bank the money they got in person, send it to an exchange, and buy more bitcoin to keep doing this. They like to advocate this moronic behavior as the "right way to do bitcoin".
That's another tactic they use. Yep.
Just waiting on people to get nailed with money laundering or tax evasion. It'll be hilarious.
use your brain, with so many people degening on bitmex, there is no way the market stays flat at 4k for a year or two, its gonna make big swings up and down to fuck over the emotional traders
roll
rollu jailfu
kek
Jillian or Rosario for me. leggo
Eh
Dumbasesses you say?
So if someone enters the market using money accumulated earlier and not traceable, and then exits the market the same way, they are a dumbass?
Interesting theory.
Yes anons don't forget to pay your taxes!
The government needs your money to give it to a person that you would never give your money to and will also use it to run shit in a great an efficient way. There are a lot of examples of that................not.
It's a problem when you want to use this money for something other than fiat crypto
>So if someone enters the market using money accumulated earlier and not traceable, and then exits the market the same way, they are a dumbass?
The market isn't non-traceable. Buying bitcoin leaves a trail by nature most of the time. Unless it's all kept offline in cold wallets and traded 100% in person (not likely- market too limited for growth) you can be traced.
Morons thinking they can't be traced because of 50 firewalls or being SO smart. Lol.
Not a problem. Unless you want to spend 1mln /month, then it may be a problem.
When you have this kind of money though you pay part of it in taxes.
The rest you hide.
You do realize that generally speaking people around the world are over taxes by their overblown governments, and that said governments take care only of their own and care about staying in power?
I refuse to feed the monstrosities like these.
Or bail out banks with my money, or fucking big corporations. Just no, not going to do it.
Agreed, you can be traced and the on/off fiat ramp is the biggest problem right now.
As soon as they tie you to the fiat 3ntry, you are toast.
But the trick is to not get tired to that fist entry. It's doable and easy.
Then you open a couple(hundred) wallets and trade.
You do know that if you trade on Binance your btc goes to Binances "general wallet" and only Binance knows what you are trading.
Now if you never get verified on Binance, you are much much harder to identify.
The off ramp with fiat is also cumbersome but completely doable.
And fuck yeah it's breaking the law, but so is a million things that we all do every day.
Use tumbler, but gold for BTC, use payfair, Bisq, Abra etc.Use Panama and Malta based companies.
It requires much more thinking and jumping through hoops then the average trading but in the end it's worth it(to me anyway)
Rolling for russell
WE'RE GOING DOWN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
rOLLAN
ROLL
H-here I go...
vcbhgfhcgfhg
not bad
On-off ramp is only part of the problem. The rest is getting enough supply to keep buying and selling.
You need money to buy Bitcoin if you aren't mining at the rate of a Chinese server farm in your basement. Buying all your resale supply in person has too low a market to be sustainable. This leaves fiat transfer one way or another regardless of where you find your supplier- official exchange or not.
The money is deposited from a bank account or otherwise linked back to you via means used to buy the bitcoin. Unless you are mailing physical goods like gold as payment, fiat will come into play at some point when buying more supplies.
If you are using gold or some other commodity to buy bitcoin it has to be physically mailed. This is super slow, risky with mail fraud, and will eventually raise some eyebrows because eventually someone will say "how the fuck are you affording all that gold?"
> But anonymous addresses!
...and your home address on the sending from the fiat side of things. The cash side is where you get caught.
roll
...
roll
Winner, winner, chicken dinner
crypto is dead
rolling
Very witty indeed user, i understood that reference
I completely agree and even said in my post that fiat ramp to the market is the biggest problem. I can't wait for DeX to take over. But we have a few options still left.
I will be speaking theoretically here, to not imply that I would ever break the law or skimmed even a penny from the IRS. I love IRS. Great agency, even better agents. Not at all corrupted as fuck... but I digress.
Teorethically speaking you can accumulate gold and in a completely untraceable way. Cash transactions with multiple people straight from the street. Easily accumulate a pound or more of the metal. It will take you a while, teorethically a year. And obviously you have to set cash aside to do so. Theoretically you could open a thrift store ltc. while you at it.
Then you sell the metal, again cash(insert profit here). OR BTC(insert around 5% fee here )
The gold method is not as slow as you think, that's one thing.
The second thing is that no one knows that you bought the gold in the first place... and no one knows that you selling it.
There are companies(not in the US of course) that will absolutely sell and deliver the hold for crypto and also buy gold for btc.
Western Union, Money Gram.
I'm not saying that this is all easy, but if you theoretically very determined and really don't like to be double taxed on everything, you can do it.
And that's just one of the teorethical methods. The most cubersome one to be honest.
Sorry just read to the end.
The cash side is where you DON'T get caught.
The banks and credit cards are traceable. Cash is much much harder to trace. Why do you think the governments really don't like cash and are pushing for the cashless society?
>Then you sell the metal, again cash
LCS = CTR over $10k, they also require an ID and you must be selling in a form that doesn't require reporting otherwise
So there will be a paper trail no matter what you do. And there isn't enough volume in selling to Joe Smith on the street to not use LCS and basically apmex/jmb
also
>The second thing is that no one knows that you bought the gold in the first place... and no one knows that you selling it.
K, now you have a pile of gold and/or a pile of cash, and you can't do anything with it (other than buying groceries and televisions) unless you've paid your taxes.
that mufkin Alyssa
There is too much interest in the market for BTC to drop to 3-4k. We may see 5k but even then that is unlikely
You conflating bullion and bars with gold, these are not the only forms that it comes in. These are just most convenient forms.
I'm speaking theoretically here, but please believe me that buying 300k of gold in one cash transaction does happen more often than you know.
And Apmex is a huge company and I even bought some stuff from them, but I like dealing with my local guys much more.
Smelting and bars is done while I watch. Very cool process by the way
Give me the rundown on buying and selling a 300k chunk of gold my man. That would pretty clearly in my view be even harder to move than bars
also,
>now you have a pile of gold and/or a pile of cash, and you can't do anything with it (other than buying groceries and televisions) unless you've paid your taxes.
Are you sure?
You do realize that there is a huge barter economy already in existence?
And yes, you can't completely avoid taxes. I agree. Even said that. But imagine that you have a company and buy a yacht, you buy it on credit and pay it off like a regularguy. Your company makes enough money that you can afford the monthly payments...theoretically speaking.
You of course pay the taxes from your company income. Always
Guys what I'm trying to say is that there are ways to do a lot of things.
The theoretical ways outlined here are just the most basic ones.
I really won't go into more teorethical detail here, but just think about the possibilities and you will find your way.
Don't do it of course, pay your taxes and keep 40% of your earnings.
I'm on your team here, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the theory behind not paying taxes on a pile of cash and then using it for anything other than living expenses. You can't buy property or anything with that pile of cash, much less reinvest it. Not sure what your point is about the yacht.
But user, you guys were saying this at every milestone.
Chunks, plural.
Imagine an estate sale (or garage sale) for gold....or better yet go to your mom and pop gold coin store and purchase it. No one asks for your ID on purchases like that.
If it comes to gold market it already runs quite underground in some circles. The gold is traded like you would during garage sale. Cash only.
Bars and bullion from the coin stores and jewelry(85% spot) from Joe Shmoe that you know.
If you develop contacts this shit's easy.
And again, this is just the most cumbersome method and one of many.
Goods, including houses are purchased for cash as well.
If you think about what I said here then you'll see what I'm not saying and how it works.
The key in this particular theoretical method is contacts with people who move it.
Nothing illegal, not gangs or mafia, just a community that doesn't like to pay taxes.
it's no.1
no need to overcomplicate stuff
>or better yet go to your mom and pop gold coin store and purchase it. No one asks for your ID on purchases like that.
a legit local coin shop without retard-tier margins will take your ID every time and I've never seen otherwise, I guess I could drive around looking for the one guy who doesn't offer 20% under spot AND doesn't require ID AND doesn't follow AMLKYC laws when you sell over 10k worth, but come on
>Goods, including houses are purchased for cash as well.
lolwut
also now you just seem to be being obscure for no real reason and sort of implying that there's some underground network of people doing business in person only and all avoiding taxes together etc. which is kind of dubious in my view
not saying it doesn't happen but your implications seem exaggerated
and again you can't buy a god damn house with your untaxed income lol
Again. Look at the teorethical yacht purchase example. You don't just drop 500k on shit. You use your credit and pay it like every silly goy out there.
Use the debt economy to your advantage.
How many Americans have 80% of their money tied into paying off their monthly debt and credit cards?
You do the same. 80% of your regular income is used to pay off your debt, and you are not the only one.
>teorethical
why do you keep spelling it this way? is this intentional? genuinely curious
>Again. Look at the teorethical yacht purchase example. You don't just drop 500k on shit. You use your credit and pay it like every silly goy out there.
What is your point? How does this solve the problem and how is this at all related to taxes? By using credit you are creating an even worse problem here, not solving it
1-3 or 97-98 please.
Its dubious, sure, and these people are actually hardworking people and all work in the same type of business.They are not forming any coherent group or conspiracy to avoid taxes(like the patriot or whatever they are called, movement does), they just ....tend to avoid them because so much of them deal with cash only or mostly.
I'm being cryptic because I'm being paranoid lol
I'm being paranoid because I started this convo on my mobile and didn't think it will gothat far.
Usual gold shops that I do business with sell gold at around 98% of spot.
And diversication is the key.
I don't sell to gold shops. There are other companies to sell to.
Again. What I'm saying is just scratching the surface.
But think about it: why IRS got so fucking interested in barter communities that they had to create a fucked up and vague barter tax?
Houses are bought for cash (straight from the state/bank btw)and so are other things. If you buy a house for cash from the foreclosure obviously you are on the states and everyone's radar.
That's not the way to avoid anything and was just my way of saying that you could teorethically start "flipping" houses for a living and have a legal, taxable income from that.
>Houses are bought for cash (straight from the state/bank btw)and so are other things. If you buy a house for cash from the foreclosure obviously you are on the states and everyone's radar.
>That's not the way to avoid anything and was just my way of saying that you could teorethically start "flipping" houses for a living and have a legal, taxable income from that.
I honestly don't know what you're on about here. My point is simply that, going back to the earlier discussion, if you have a pile of untaxed cash with no explanation for it, you cannot buy a house with it without paying the IRS their pound of flesh. It really is that simple as far as I know. This stuff about flipping houses--no clue what you mean or how it has any bearing on the above fact, but I'm interested nonetheless
Ok I'll be straight.
You have a company. The company generates $1000 in income.
Then you do other stuff and not reporting this income.
You are in debt 80% of your legal income and live a lavish lifestyle.
You don't actually need that credit, you could buy all this shitout right, but it would raise questions. That way it doesn't raise questions, because, like many people what IRS sees is you paying your debt from your income that you paid the taxes on.,
>That way it doesn't raise questions, because, like many people what IRS sees is you paying your debt from your income that you paid the taxes on.,
Huh? What does this have to do with a pile of untaxed cash? Sounds like you are just discussing buying things with legal, taxed income
Theoretical, fuck for some reason my autocorrect changes it to fucking teorethical....go figure. I haven't even noticed till you said something
Going back to my earlier point,
>(other than buying groceries and televisions)
You can't pay down debt with your untaxed pile of cash, which is why I said >By using credit you are creating an even worse problem here, not solving it
You spend that pile on things that are much less visible and /or in different countries.
Countries that are less strict with their rules.
So basically you can
A) tax your complete income and keep about 40% of it or a little more if you have a good CPA
B) tax a fraction of this income and spend the rest under radar.
The IRS sees your big purchases in the US, and for these you use your legal income and credit.
Smaller purchases no one cares about. You can buy 60TV's and IRS would not give a shit. It's luxury goods that they care about and shit like houses and yachts etc
They won't even give a shit if you buy a collection of Rolexes. These are invisible things.
Panama, Belize, Malta..to name a few of the better known(and no longer safe) places is where you buy stuff that no one asks about and for cash.
All of it is complicated and you do need help of a good CPA regardless but doable.
The ultimate way is to move to these kind of places and show everyone a middle finger, but I'm certainly not on that level of income.
And the thing is that in all of that I am thinking 10 million USD max.
Higher than that and I'm not sure.
I did not have this problem yet, wish I will one day.
>Smaller purchases no one cares about. You can buy 60TV's and IRS would not give a shit. It's luxury goods that they care about and shit like houses and yachts etc
Yes, this is my entire point. You can be "nigger rich" with your untaxed income but you can't do anything else--no investing, no real estate, nothing, which is why people launder illegal income for example (aka pay tax on it under false pretenses)
rolling
What you are saying is that if you make 10 million from crypto (or not crypto) it's just easier to tax it, take the 4 million that you have left and buy ahouse, yacht and invest in stocks?
If I understand you correctly, then I agree. It's indeed easier to do so.
What I and other people are doing is not that easy, and being "nigger rich" is something I don't understand here.
You can invest your money and you can buy real estate(not in the US though)
You can also adjust the profits from your company to never catch the highest bracket and afford all of the above and still pay lower bracket taxes. That's one of the easiest ways as well.
And then there is a hardcore version.
Just to add something: people who launder money do so because the means that they acquired it were in itself illegal. It's a completely different situation to what we were describing.
If you want to pay taxes from crypto trading you just pay them, no need to launder anything.
Also if you do not pay taxes on crypto you might get audited (if you are unlucky) and will have to pay a fine and the back taxes, but because buying BTC is legal that's the extent of your problems. If you can't document where the money came from then you have a problem for real.
ahahaha lil alien
roll