Why do worker unions even exist? They seen really useless

>my boss told me

to stave off the jew

>Holy shit. It's barely a union at all.
I know

>Can't you make a declaration saying that you don't want to be part?

Very recently the supreme court ruled in a case (Janus) in favor of this spirit. The issue in this case was that a government worker was not part of the union by choice, but still was forced to pay union fees because the union was representing "all workers", not just its members. Which is absurd.

Union law in the United States is probably our most pathetic area of law, with a long history and a lot of old judicial rulings that seemingly contradict the free market system a lot of Americans think exists here.

I wonder why minimal wages and work regulations exist...
Hmmm...

The minimal wage was implemented because unions became so weak that a big chunk of the working population dropped out off collective bargaining agreements you idiot.

The minimum wage was implemented because worthless morons native to any country were assblasted immigrants would do their retard labor for less so they demanded special treatment so some immigrant couldn't work for less.

>Holy shit. It's barely a union at all.
Different countries have different relationships to their people and multinational companies. It like always depends on each's history.

solidarity forever, union makes us strong and all that.

Lifting heavy objects and putting them back down again makes you strong.

I'm talking about Germany ignoramus. We didn't have a minimum wage until 3 years ago because every worker used to be covered by collective bargaining.

It makes you tired and weak. Ive tried myself.

>listening to your boss's opinion on unions
this

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So that you don't work 20 hours a day
So that you don't work overtime for no pay
So that you don't die thanks to cutting costs
So that you do have the right to speak up against exploitation
So that you do have 14 days of leave yearly
So that you do have the right to live

The only good unions are voluntary though, mandatory unions are shitty and corrupt
>t.voluntarist libertatian

*dabs on you with 5 weeks payed leave*
Even the USSR had more vacation that you

hmm what nigger? minimal wages and work regulations exist in places where there has never been nor will there ever be any union

communism ew

>So that you do have 14 days of leave yearlySo that you do have 14 days of leave yearly
Oh, in Brazil it's 30.

not fair...
Did you read
">t.voluntarist libertarian"

$5 minimum wage daily might as well be $0
Work regulations in those places are hardly enforced, look at China, they have many rights on the books, but in real life...yeah.

and on the other end of the spectrum we have my country. no unions ever. minimum wage enforced by law and work regulations are followed to the dot over the i.

>>t.voluntarist libertatian

I don't understand why it's not mainstream to believe that workers should be allowed to do what they can together but that companies should be allowed to respond as they can. A voluntary society is a moral society. Humans and their obsession of leveraging force to get what they want is a stain on the legacy of this species. When will we stop being savages?

stfu Stalin

okay laddie
Workers are the majority of the population so politics is another way of voluntarism t b h
People like favourable conditions for the rich and upper-class because they are engrained with the delusion that they too, will become part of the wealthy

>My boss told me

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>fuck laws just believe in the moral compass of multi-national companies
Fucking bootlicker

I'm convinced that being a corporate drone is basically a state religion over there.

>my boss told me

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Yeah, but you were under a fucking proletariat state until a few years ago

your boss is absolutely right goym

because you have to pay money to be part of a union.

Unions are by law forced to represent all workers, union or not. The reason non-union members were forced to pay fees is because they were otherwise freeloading, enjoying privileges that the union fought for without paying for it. The abolishment of that practice is a thinnly veiled attempt at weakening unions and nothing more.

But think about those poor employers, how will they be able to make you work 12 hour days with no breaks in dangerous work conditions.
They could make so much money money if employees weren't so lazy and complained about the mandatory whippings. Those improve morale!

This.

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Work is voluntary. Maybe if the government didn't extort everyone and threaten to confiscate your lands if you didn't pay property tax you could just sit around and do nothing all day.

Don't want to work for a company? Fine then don't, they don't force you to do anything.

Don't want to pay tribute to your government overlords? Rot in jail or get killed for resisting arrest.

Or they could just remain in the unions and demand better rights at their current place of employment while you seethe and screech on 4channel about how they shouldn’t

>Work is voluntary. Maybe if the government didn't extort everyone and threaten to confiscate your lands if you didn't pay property tax you could just sit around and do nothing all day.
The fuck are you talking about you dumb nigger? How are you going to survive without money to buy food? The government taxes your salary and your transactions, if you don't buy anything or don't work you don't pay taxes.

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You also need to eat and pay for basic supplies. Property tax is minimal compared to daily living expenses and you can only pay property tax if you have property. How do you get property? Oh right, you need a job to pay for it.
The problem is that work is a limited resource and for most people you have to get the job that you can get, not the job that you want.

They have a right to unionize, but the unions only leverage should be the leverage of the collective workforce refusing to work. If some other person is willing to work for less, it's retarded to tell them they can't. People can make their own decisions.

>if you don't buy anything or don't work you don't pay taxes.

This is literally false. If I buy a piece of land and don't work and farm all of stuff in a scenario where I'm somehow 100% self sufficient I have to pay the government real estate tax every month for the privilege of "owning" my property. If I don't pay on time, I have to pay interest. If I still don't pay, they will seize my land with force.

if you don't like the government just leave lmao. It's voluntary association you don't have a right to protest how they govern.

The government is notorious for being inefficient in all things it does. Even this meme patently ignores the functionality of society before government nationalized transportation.

>to keep lazy people employed
YEAAAAAAH FUCK EM
WHO CARES ABOUT OTHERS
KILL EVERYONE WHO DOESNT GENERATE ATLEAST 1% OF RISE IN THE GDP
XD YEAH I HAVE AUTISM, HOW DID YOU KNOW?

Oh god, you were serious.
Jesus fucking christ.

i mean that does make sense because the only reason what is and isn't your property means anything is because theres a government to enforce it

>The government is notorious for being inefficient in all things it does
proofs?

Yes, because the government is also the one that'll enforce your property of the land you own, defending it so you don't have to.

>I pay tribute to the mafia because if they don't protect my shop from other mobsters then I'll be extorted by those mobsters

I can't think of anything more retarded than allowing yourself to be extorted so no one else can extort you. You're essentially claiming that you're preventing something by just doing it anyways.

The national debt and the failure of the US post service to compete with private agencies are good examples. More importantly the fundamental axiom is that private companies are incentivized to be efficient to maximize profit, whereas if the government needs more money they just steal more of it from their citizens. They have no reason to be efficient until they're so disastrously retarded that people start to riot.

>Work is voluntary. Maybe if the government didn't extort everyone and threaten to confiscate your lands if you didn't pay property tax you could just sit around and do nothing all day.
Guess who finance the poliitician campaigns? That's right, the same companies that you support

thats what governments come from but you need something like that. Thats why mafias pop up in places with a weak state.
Say theres nothing like that and some squatters come onto your property. Then what. You have to fucking fight them off yourself every time it happens or give up and lose everything.

And pretty much every time a government service gets privatised it instantly goes to shit in quality and up in price. They do shit the market can't because they can have macro goals. Theres no singular gain from roads, enforcing laws, having museums and keeping historic sights but the entire society is multiple times richer because of all of it together.

>my boss told me

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There's a union in a massive company near where I live and they have a board up in the cafeteria of names and pictures of people who left the union after that supreme court ruling. Above their names and pictures it says to not associate with these people, and if you talk to anybody who has any power in the union it's because they'll be the first to get completely fucked if the ruling gets overturned at any point. The union heads are literally scum that only help their friends.

This is some 12 year old logic here.
>I pay tribute to the mafia because if they don't protect my shop from other mobsters then I'll be extorted by those mobsters
Do the government will just steal your land if you don't pay taxes? Even if it's your only land?
>The national debt and the failure of the US post service to compete with private agencies are good examples.
The debt don't came from nowhere. It exists so that wealthy people can profit from the governmental corruption. I mean, someone is going to profit from the insane amount of cash you spend in the military

>I can't think of anything more retarded than allowing yourself to be extorted so no one else can extort you. You're essentially claiming that you're preventing something by just doing it anyways.
You can just refuse to pay taxes and fight the government on your own too.

It's almost like the companies would have less authority if they didn't have a central power source controlled by sociopaths to manipulate. It's almost like government has too much power to favor their friends and supporters. Hmmmmmm.

I would have no issue if you and some other people chose to do this and let others decide for themselves, but you don't do it of your own accord and the rest of us don't have a choice. I'd rather fend for myself and accept the risks of living a life with dignity. But I'm not allowed to do that, and that is horseshit.

wait wait wait wait
you have a boss?

well, fuck... imagine being this of a cuck...

all activity leads towards the heat death of the universe

>It's almost like the companies would have less authority if they didn't have a central power source controlled by sociopaths to manipulate. It's almost like government has too much power to favor their friends and supporters. Hmmmmmm.
It's a natural evolution. A minimal state will become more authoritarian as wealthy people start to bribe the politicians to pass laws that benefit themselves.
That's why there's not a single libertarian country in this world

I heard they are really tough in France.
My middle aged coworker who once had been in a branch office there was at a loss of a word and wetted his eyes when asked how it was there.

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Why is it always macacos making these retarded right-wing posts?

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>Do the government will just steal your land if you don't pay taxes? Even if it's your only land?

Literally yes. Maybe it doesn't work that way in your country, but it does here.

>The debt don't came from nowhere. It exists so that wealthy people can profit from the governmental corruption. I mean, someone is going to profit from the insane amount of cash you spend in the military

I agree it didn't come from nowhere, it came from the government abusing its authority - which will likely always happen under a government. Our military is a farce. We don't defend Americans by doing the things we do with the military. We just abuse weaker societies to take things, and that is clearly wrong.

I could do that, but I choose not to kill a few pawns (the police that would die in the firefight) because they aren't the real issue here. My life is better spent serving as an example of peace and spreading basic morality in the hopes that one day people can truly be left to their own devices. I won't stoop to their level.

>Imagine being stupid enough to not understand irony.

>I could do that, but I choose not to kill a few pawns (the police that would die in the firefight) because they aren't the real issue here. My life is better spent serving as an example of peace and spreading basic morality in the hopes that one day people can truly be left to their own devices. I won't stoop to their level.

>Unironically believing that everyone will suddenly become peacefull hippies living a perfectly moral life.

I would say just fuck off and leave then because citizenship is a voluntary thing but you literally have to pay to get rid of it in America

I choose to believe that eventually humanity, through education and technology, can one day achieve a moral existence.

>I agree it didn't come from nowhere, it came from the government abusing its authority - which will likely always happen under a government.
You mean, the big corporations use it's wealth to steal from the workers through the government? You simply can't prevent a organisation focused on profits to stop profiting.

I won't do that. I'm going to spend my life yelling and screaming and spending my money to make this country a better place, and every time someone tells me to fuck off it makes me more determined.

The people who say "Fuck off if you don't like it" don't have the devotion I do. I'll even sit on this cesspool and argue with what are probably mostly trolls in the hopes that one single person will see what I'm saying and change their actions as a result of it.

And the greatest thing is, doing all this gives my life meaning and purpose. I'm not some depressed shit like most people on here. I fight for what I believe in every single day.

They wouldn't be able to do it anywhere near as efficiently if they didn't have the government as a tool.

The government will never stop existing. Someone needs to define what is private and what is not

>through technology
Will people eventually acknowledge the state of thier being endlessly stolen from riches because it is proven so patently by the progress of technology at that point?
And reluctantly proceed to the next form of society?
I rather think what Edward Snowden said sounds really plausible.

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good. I mean that seriously, do that shit. It's fundamentally the same reason people need to use unions to keep corporations from fuckign you.

I've never said anything against voluntary unions in this thread. I acknowledge the right of people to freely associate and strike. I just also acknowledge the right of companies to hire other workers if those people are easily replaced.

I'm not inconsistent and I don't think that stance is unreasonable. Do you?

Because in every employer v. employee dispute the single employee is at a disadvantage due to the resources possessed by the company.

A single employee is replacible, regardless of his position.
The only course of action an employee can take to have his demands and expectation heard is to put an entire company at risk of going out of business by forming unions with common demands and expectations.

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>I just also acknowledge the right of companies to hire other workers if those people are easily replaced.
fucking scab

What do you get out of whiteknighting for corporations? Are you a cuck?

Excuse me, work is necessary to survive, and in rural areas, single companies have a monopsony over the employment market so if your boss doesn't want you you might as well buy rope rather than starve to death on a street.