Those who do not think that employment is systemic slavery are either blind or employed

Like everything this guy says he's right-enough; but he's technically incorrect. He's become very famous from taking stuff that is generally or almost true and presenting it as absolute esoteric truth that he has stolen like Prometheus did fire from the gods.
You always need to scale down everything he says.

in this case, employment is not 'systemic slavery' because it's too ad-hoc to be truly systemic and it's not slavery since theoretically (and this why Marx was wrong) you can escape it through either becoming your own boss or establishing yourself as a high value worker and negotiating your own terms. The part about 'blind or employed' is again generally true, people either don't realize how they are virtual slaves to their industry or could be aware but confirmation-bias it out of their mind. But it's a false dichotomy, because as I said it's not a systemic slavery by definition, it's just a provocative piece of rhetoric that is overall true, but technically false.

I don't think it's that impossible but I give a lot of weight to the B in UBI. A zoo is pretty basic.

you're splitting hairs bro
taleb is wrong about a lot of stuff
he's for sure more than 50% right on this, which is about the best you can hope for with a statement this airy

the normal person basically cannot escape it. that you can is a modern lie.
there are no more slavers but the whip is there nonetheless, this has been covered

the UBI should never give you quite as high of a standard of living as a working man, but it can make salary negotiations more equitable, as businesses basically exploit their comfortable position to drive down wages across the board. this seems to be less well known for some reason

you are in for a crude awakening when you become an adult. You have an underdeveloped brain

fucking kek

I'm employed and still think its slavery
I hate it with every fiber of my body, but can't really do anything against it
Also too pussy to just kms

>taleb is wrong about a lot of stuff
says the UBI dreamer. Hilarious

>x is systemic y
wow... so depp.. based arab philisopher!!

I... Actually love my job. I do what i want every day, nothing is ever the same, i get paid well, and the people i work with are awesome. Going on 12 years, i can't complain. Maybe the real secret is finding what makes you happy, and actually pursuing it. (Wild idea, right?) Sounds easy... It isn't. But it's possible.

The only way this will ever be possible is if we have automation to the point that there is no longer a need for human work

>taleb is wrong about a lot of stuff
Such as?

So mister bigshot has a thesis? My imagination and system of belief find it inadequate I guess you aren't such tough shit after all bucko.

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>you're splitting hairs bro
You're damn right I am, do you know how many simpletons on here who can't into nuance would just take what he says as ironclad law
>the normal person basically cannot escape it. that you can is a modern lie.
That's becoming progressively less and less true as the ephemeral gig economy becomes the status quo, the long-term employment will soon be a minority status as people shift and switch from a series of short term jobs. Frelancers are by definition not 'slaves' even if they are under the bondage or the yoke of their benefactors/employers temporarily.
>as businesses basically exploit their comfortable position to drive down wages across the board. this seems to be less well known for some reason
good point.

It is slavery, I see my life right now as the movie "12 years a slave".

I'm dumping 2/3rds of my AGI into stocks and hope that after 10 years I will be able to be financially independent. Only 7 more years to go [spoiler]I hope ;_;[/spoiler]

You’d love living the life you want to live more. Not going into the office ever day for the same company. No one wants to do that

he's right,fucking imbeciles in this thread thinking humans will still be doing "work" star trek style 100-200 years into the future. to actually think most work wont be automated automatically makes you a brainlet.

of course. no one actually 'likes work'. you are effectively forced to do it. and by blind he clearly means delusional.

anyone who thinks employment is slavery deserves to be chained up like a wild nigger

if less than a zoo is needed to keep the poors from damaging people's property then they will get less than a zoo

I know a guy in prison like you. He gets a job keeping up the grounds of places that contract the labor out to the prisons. He earns "minimum wage" for a job that would pay a free man considerably more, and he is forced to pay the prison virtually all of what he earns in various little fees. He's happy to do this because his alternative is to spend his time in a cage where he never gets to go outside because the jail he is housed in doesn't have a yard.

By definition slaves under our system cannot recognize the degradation own slavery because the labor that they perform is better than the circumstances otherwise forced upon them. It's the equivalent of choosing to pick cotton because that's better than master beating you.

ur retarded. automation and ai will pretty much eliminate any need to work. but u can be a retarded wage cuck and continue wasting away ur life for useless niggers to take advantage of

Thank you. Great post, said it a lot better than I did

automation itself will become automated

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The problem is that a lot of menial jobs are helpful to the survival of the society and without people to do them other societies could overpower yours.

If we didn't have enough Johnny's running around with guns defending 'freedom' for his gold stars and basic income, another country would shoot us up.

A lot of menial jobs you LITERALLY do nothing, and could be streamlined and made cheaper by a push for automation. Give it 10 years

This is true, and I see a lot of them becoming automated increasing demand and competition for 'real' jobs.

People who can't compete will get run over, UBI is a pipe dream because it implies the government doing stuff for you for nothing in return. Not conducive to a progressive society.

Then again we have welfare and shit

This is literally the principle behind life since its inception. You eat because it's better than starving, you shit because holding it in for too long can be bad, you slap your wife because if you listen to her shit for a second longer you'll neck yourself

>people have to eat, or they starve
>therefore deliberately starving someone to make them work for you is the natural order of things

You guys are fags. Yea work sucks , but not working sucks too. It gives you a purpose and an accomplished feeling unless you are over worked.

My life was 10x shitter when I was a full time NEET . Go live in the ghetto with niggers that don't work. Problem is you wouldn't survive though because work there is robbing people and drug dealing.

How many people do you think work on anything meaningful ever? 99% of all work is completely pointless and could be done away with without anyone noticing.

you could eat shit without any money. The problem is that if you want the good shit that probably won't kill you, then you'll have to play societies games.

no one's directly starving you, and they'll send you to a mental institution if you say they are. But you're born into a system and need to weigh your options. This is why I have no sympathy for the homeless.

It's simultaneously astounding and entertaining to me that you can't hear yourself.

Ok let's get over words like slavery and freedom because both are extremes. Evolutionarily, any man who strives to be independent of the system tended to lower his chances of survival compared to ppl who codepend on one another. This codependency entails a certain level of 'enslavement' to one another. This 'enslavement' is actually what allows certain groups to outlive others.

Any true argument of enslavement boils down to an argument of 'free will' and will end in with some ideas that were subconsciously planted in your mind through the religion of your ancestors.
So are we slaves? Maybe we are all slaves to the gene that guides our survival instinct.

Just like when Spartacus won his freedom as the Undefeated Gaul and became the Champion of Capua? It's not realistic to think you'll win your freedom in the games though. Weren't meant to die in the games. They want to see us to the afterlife. The idea that we aren't slaves because it's possible to win our freedom is 100% Rebecca. You need to stop posting.

Meaning is a personal thing user, usually determined by the culture and prevailing ideology since few people ever forge their own idea of 'meaning'. More to the point the Kardashians have shown that meaning comes from being noticed, not from the gestural significance of work

Debt is slavery. Not employment.

Get a load of this slave who enjoys fence posts in her anus! Disgusting.

whatever nigger, you can knead your own bread. I'm off to the supermarket.

May your journey to the food library be your last!

did you just wish death upon me? That's dark bro, you need a friend. I'll be your friend user

People who want to live of UBI will be removed. They are dead weight. Why should they be allowed to live? They arent contibuting anything to society. If we were to have UBI, it would be split at the end of the year among everybody who worked that year. Giving money to people who dont work, but are capable of working, eg. no health issues or other problems, is feeding the paricites. Humanitybdoesnt need unproductive people. Its just drain on the whole system.

is this the boomer equivalent of comfy NEETposting?

1) it’s “rude” awakening you little brainless shit
2) I am your senior at 34 years of age, so have some respect or I will bitch slap you around
3) you have Down’s syndrome if you don’t think automation will replace most jobs within the next 20 years regardless of what you want to happen because you can’t do better than some factory job a robot can do 10000x more efficiently than you
Literally already have the means to do this, it’s just a matter of putting the finances behind it. That’s absolutely the only thing blocking this path. We can build houses fully automated. Most goods are already made via near full automation and the jobs people are doing are typically replaceable.
Ding ding ding. But it will be WAY sooner than that. 80 years ago we didn’t even have computers. Now they control everything and are communicating with each other on a global scale at instantaneous speeds. In another 80 years computers will be able to replace every task humans currently do.

I don't think a UBI is the way things will go down in a world where technical advancements eliminate the need for most jobs. UBI would likely cause inflationary price adjustments until the purchasing power is diluted down to worthless. Gov't could counter this inevitability with price controls, but that will cause a deeper financial collapse. Price is a natural consequence of demand, and limited supply of scarce resources.

If, instead, we embraced technological advancement that could provide for unlimited
or abundant supply, then the price approaches zero and no income would be needed to buy something that is free. Like air, or sea water.

When nanotech and 3D printing can produce any consumer good within minutes, and after use, the material can be recycled into any other consumer good, then there won't be any need to charge for consumer goods, or the charge would be very little. Same can be said for food, shelter, transportation and medical care.

We wouldn't have UBI. An abundant supply will outpace demand and drive the price to zero. Money will be needed for things that can't be produced with abundance. Like tickets to a concert, or time at a vacation resort. Although the travel cost may be free.

you can bet your ass if someone could hoard all the air and sell it to people it would have been done by now. As long as people need anything and there is a limited supply, there will be competition for ppl to get more than their 'fair' share.

Actually the low rate of consumption you can have while not working at all is so far below what normies are used to that they wouldn't be able to stomach just living on UBI. They're all social signaling whores who want to buy the more expensive shit and treat their girlfriend and have vacations and a big or centrally located home and all that jazz.

Aren't we all just slaves to our needs and desires?

Remind me when they made a robot that can run diagnostic tests on the other robots and then fix them.
Not happening yet famiglia

Not being employed =/= not working.

progress is exponential, our thinking is often linear.

80 years is a fucking long time.
2*80=160 (linear)
2^80=1208925820000000000000000

Huge fucking difference, i'll side with the oldfag.

>As long as people need anything and there is a limited supply
Did you read my post? When tech advancements can eradicate "limited supply", and create "abundant supply", the price of whatever has abundant supply will be zero; like air and seawater.

Too many shitty people who would rob someone as naturally as saying "hi", just so many people with walnut-sized brains who should be slaughtered.

No form of government is going to work.

> says the UBI dreamer. Hilarious
you got the wrong user. i take a realistic approach to UBI. it has a shot at working in a society where people are inclined to work anyway. some of the early experiments are showing it may not work.
the welfare state is otherwise properly fucked. it doesn't make any sense to pay someone who isn't going to work in the first place

Don't expect an answer. It's bullshit handwaving that he thinks makes him look smarter than Taleb.

This idiot thinks UBI would work in any society because he can't understand second-order effects. That tells you all you need to know.

Dude made bank trading derivatives, he is most certainly not a wagecuck, he writes because he enjoys it and/or is an egomaniac, not because he has to.

UBI would be entirely feasible if implemented as negative income tax and all welfare programs were abolished.

he is a huge arrogant faggot who fallates himself about 1/3 part of the book of how he is better than economists and forecasters. Having said that, he is mostly right and invaluable on his many assessments. Quite a good read.

UBI is wishful thinking because it doesn't take in to count that most people do fucking nothing constructive with their time and wagecucking keeps the retards busy until they die. also look at chavs on the dole - they sit at home all day watching jeremy kyle and breeding like rabbits and get the government to raise the creatura spawn. get the whole world like this and UBI is a fast(er)-track to white genocide and a communist hellhole.

our ancestors worked whole days on farms just to survive
and then some lord took 20% of their product
and it wasn't considered slavery
now people complain because they have to sit 8h at behind the desk

It's almost as if in the future people will have to do little work at all.

But he literally is "better" or rather his way of thinking about and presenting reality as it relates to various events is better.

Social scientists and economics do more harm than good, especially in Europe where the tax payer funds the education.

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to add, he has not given the "Wagecuck" much thought, in his book he described a difference of those who have scalable jobs, (you input your fixed amount of time, for a fixed amount of product, and thus a fixed amount of money) compared to nonscalable jobs (like that of a book writer who with more effort does not necessarily need to create more value, and whois value can be copied and thus exponentially increases)

Srsly, he has mostly lived a lived in this second tier and thus mostly scoffs and is arrogant to all of us. Came from fucking lebanon in which he louded as some bumfuck cultural capital of peace (which he still condemned as being stupid because his citizens could not comprehend that it would never stop, the hostilities) but still, he lives in a different world, the world of concepts and weird things "extremistan" he calls it.

we better rant how automation is gonna take our jewbs NOW

>mass automation will render 90% of people economically useless
> he thinks they'll all be allowed to keep eating and breeding forever because "reasons"

Oh, sweetie.

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no man that has so much hostility towards them can talk about them out of neutrality, he has beef with them, and he probably has beef with many others. It just feels that way by reading his book on black swan events. Its true that social scientists are mostly garbage

nature.com/news/over-half-of-psychology-studies-fail-reproducibility-test-1.18248

But about half, or maybe even less of them come from the "non jew" type of schools. Which werent hijacked by the likes of freud and other "psychoanalists". Those professions are the best attempt at fixing problems out of our innate desire to help our fellow man often. So what if they dont work, society needs some comfort even if it often is delusional. Isnt it a black swan event of itself to eliminate these things and then watch a bunch of other downsides pop up all over society? You want to be that first dude who suggests such a thing lol?

So you're real after all

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This is a good thread. I have nothing to add but just saying there’s some quality posts itt

i work on the docks in LA. automation is a shit show currently. it's amusing going to union meetings and listening to the old dudes talk about their labor negotiations with the employers and various committees. "robots don't pay taxes" comes up frequently. they could replace us all with robots but local politicians and businesses would suffer. the terminals need political officials to sign off on automation and currently they don't have enough support to move forward. they've made baby steps at a couple terminals but nothing that inspires confidence or further automation. i think the union has more power over our jobs than terminal owners, for now. i don't see jobs becoming a less polarizing issue in the future either.