Hurry up

Yellow and Red are based. Green is cringe and should die.

>kurds
>based
no. Only Assad the Lion should rule Syria

>the Chad syria

You really think they would've expanded all the way to the NATO border without tacit US/turkish backing? Wake da frigg up matey

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>kurds
>based

I would say they are semi-based at least. Fighting turkroaches is definitely a big plus.

Well no of course not but their expansion was just incredible. They couldn't have gotten much further but still, it was pretty insane for those few months, just seeing this formerly obscure group of terrorists sweeping across such rich and ancient lands

unfortunately they've got a bunch of commies amongst them. They should probably have a nation of their own (they can thank us for that :^) ), but they should stay the fuck out of syria

This, all the rebels are killing each other while they're surrounded by Syrian artillery.
They're just gonna wait to kill each other and Turkey will backstab them since they don't want ISIS-tier rebels at their borders, about Kurds they'll just run under Assad's umbrella now.

>pretty incredible

Why? It's syrian army + massive shia militias + iran + fucking Russia

Russia wont lose to some rebels.

>5 years of American coalition fighting ISIS
>3 years of Russia fighting ISIS

Isis ruined everything. They ruined the rebellion and turned it into a 3 front war with Kurds, Syria, and Iraq.

That Assad would've been overthrown already were it not for them and the Sunni people of Syria would be free from alawite oppression

I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. I was talking about ISIS, not Assad.

Oh my bad.

Yes, ISIS advance was rather impressive. The incompetence of middle eastern arabic regular conventionnal army is really impressive too.

>The incompetence of middle eastern arabic regular conventionnal army is really impressive too.
Isn't it just? Arab armies have been laughably incompetent for some centuries now, to the point where an internationally despised terror organisation can be knocking on the doors of fucking Damascus, and actually go as far as to seize Mosul.
To be fair the performance of the SAA was reasonably good, considering they were already fighting tooth and nail on all sides, but the Iraqi army was just pathetic. They outnumbered ISIS something like 3:1 in some situations, and retreated anyway just out of fear. There is something fundamentally wrong with the structure of Middle Eastern armies. I cannot think of many historical examples of such military and political disparities favouring the outnumbered side.

>Arab armies have been laughably incompetent for some centuries

centuries?
The oldest arabic armies are like 80 years old. The oldest arabic countries are 80 yaers as well.
The arabic world was ruled by various turkic dynasties for the last 1200 years.

>They outnumbered ISIS something like 3:1 in some situations, and retreated anyway just out of fear. There is something fundamentally wrong with the structure of Middle Eastern armies. I cannot think of many historical examples of such military and political disparities favouring the outnumbered side.

I think that they just doesnt care because they don't belive in their nations, they fight for their faith, but not the artificial meme countries they live in, they don't want to die for that.

Let's not forget the Saudis who has the most advanced military in the Arab world and yet they can't defeat a bunch of Khat munchers with some trucks and AK's.

War of homos(Assad, Iran, Russia) against h*teros(Isis, Antiassad rebels).

>centuries? The oldest arabic armies are like 80 years old.
I meant arab military in general. First they get fucked by Mongols, then by various Turks, then by the Ottoman Turks, then by us two, etc. It's pretty pathetic for a region with a historical reputation as the home of some of the greatest conquerors of all time.
>I think that they just doesnt care because they don't belive in their nations
Yeah this is true as well. A friend of mine was from Iraq, and he would always say about how much he hated other Iraqis (usually for being Shia). It's an artificial nation with little historical basis for its existence, and should really be split into three parts (Kurdish, Sunni, Shia, with only the Shia part remaining "Iraq")

exactly. Truly a bizarre situation. Their leadership is laughably incompetent

Although there are Arab military groups that are actually decent in combat, like Hezbollah.
Although they are trained by Iranians so that must help their case.

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*stands in your way*
Syrian Kurdistan will soon be REAL

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Why you dont mention ISIS itself then.
No sane person would like to die for any middle eastern state.

HTS takes over Idlib

Turkey leaves Idlib because there are is no FSA left to protect

Turkey pulls back its observation points because they dont want to protect HTS

Assad launches ground offensive against HTS held Idlib province

Assad takes back Idlib

U.S. withdraws all its troops from YPG held east Syria to avoid confrontation with Turkey

Now Allieless and defenseless Kurds either surrender their territory to Assad or face Turkish occupation

In case YPG wants to try its luck against Turkey: Turkey takes all Syrian territory in the North of Syria till a depth of 30-50 KM

Assad forces storm from the south

YPG fights a two front war which it loses

Assad controles entire Syria except Turkish occupied North

Russia, Iran and Turkey form constitutional committee and resolve the remaining stance by a political solution

Turkey hands North Syria to Damascus

Syrian Civil war officially ends

Yes perhaps based Hezbollah constitutes a small exception. They are a little unique though as they are more or less independent of any government (like you said, they're loyal mainly to Iran), which surely makes them more versatile without restrictions based on leadership.

aside from syria?
(and iran if you consider it ME)

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Assad will literally give autonomy to Kurds so they keep the jihadi niggers at bay, though.

nope Turkey wont allow it

ISIS reach their peak because of all the equipment the Iraqi army left behind.
Not to mention they managed to get Syria because the SAA were busy dealing with the Rebels in pretty much all their biggest cities.
The moment SAA managed to reorganize and they started to recveive help from militias, iran and putin, they basically started raping ISIS from Aleppo to all the way the Iraqi border.

Their leadership seems pretty good though, it ain't based on nepotism like most of arab military groups, i guess the same can be said about ISIS.

>bawwww Turkey won't allow it

>As far as I'm concerned Turkey should be sanctionned for violating human rights on Kurds in south-East Turkey.

And Saudis bombing civilians is totally ok?

That's another exemple. America is to blame, really.

kurds are communists though

> it ain't based on nepotism like most of arab military groups, i guess the same can be said about ISIS.
Exactly, but unlike ISIS they aren't that autistic about religious domination, which makes them much more effective.

>Implying it syrians who fights for assad.

>muh human rights
Turkey should leave NATO. Then they can form Neo-Ottoman empire.

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It's pretty fucked how one side claims to fight for freedom and it's against human rights violations, while they support a country that does everything of that and nobody bats an eye on it.

As far as i know, it seems Hezbollah kind changed their instance in the latest years, they're more like a nationalistic group rather than islamic, besides their hatred for Israel.
They even accept christians now.

Who else Ivan?

Yes I think so. They certainly retain roots in Islamic doctrine, though their stances are at this point highly divergent. And as for their hatred of Israel, (at risk of sounding le edgy) they are perfectly justified in this and I don't think its based on faith at all. Israel fucked over the entire region and they ought to be punished as such.

and HTS and ISIS and Jund al-Aqsa and the 50 FSA factions are all wahabbi terrorist criminals who are ither supported or not minded by turkish forces in northern Syria.

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We and Iran.

Of course, you are giving them critical support, but fundamentally the SAA consists of Syrians

youre a lefty got it

Hezbollah was created during the Israeli invasion of '82, so it makes sense.
I think they're the only para-military group that are actually stronger than their own national military, Hezbollah at this point could be considered a "professional military".

best option though

The armies of the "arabic" empires-caliphates (abbasid, fatimid etc.) were made up of turkic, blacks, berbers, kurds etc. not many arabs in that, and it was a very long time before the mongols or ottoman. Actually the arabic armies are irrelevant since the 8th.
Ottoman took the arabic world from the mameluks, they didn't fought any arab to conquer the middle east.

>and should really be split into three parts (Kurdish, Sunni, Shia, with only the Shia part remaining "Iraq")
It should, but it will never happend sadly. Gonna be fun in the next decades.

Iran / Saudi arabia and Russia / USA are very cancerous with their proxywars to dominate the region. 2003 war was a mistake, anyone agrees now.

please tell me what kind of human rights violations are you talking about? every western and their mothers are talking about these "human right violations" but when we ask them, they can't say shit. they have the same rights i have. half of the current government is k*rdish. half of our former presidents were k*rdish. you have no idea about what you're actually talking about. stop repeating vice news article on Jow Forums. wish we could get rid of these people, they are just puppets fed by western governments in order to keep this geography destabilized and weak. they're literally holding turkey back, pic kinda related.

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How would the Arab world be today if the Arab spring never happened and Saddam was still in power?

the iq of turks was around 60 few decades ago.

Turks got their IQ booster (+30) because they got access to better food, education, economy etc.

Kurdish iq is low because their region is underdeveloped, wich is partially turkey's fault.

Main source of manpower for Assad was Iran. May be it is not true at state of end of war, but it was true in its most important periods.

No iranian shia crescent stretching from iran to lebanon. No houtis takeover of yemen, a strong sunni held iraq.
Probably no hezbollah-israel wars (2006 and so on).
Iran is the country that gained the much since the 2003 invasion.

But Saddam was hard to predict, he did a lot of crazy things. That's why he's gone now.

>The armies of the "arabic" empires-caliphates (abbasid, fatimid etc.) were made up of turkic, blacks, berbers, kurds etc.
lol this sounds kind of WE tier but I'll take your word for it.

> Gonna be fun in the next decades.
Oh man we are going to see some fireworks. Especially if something crazy happened like the USA pulling out of NATO like they have been threatening to do, the Middle East is gonna experience something like its never seen since the rise of the Rashidun.

I hope they succeed :3

Also on this topic, I hope the Houthis make some gains as well. It is beyond criminal that our government is helping the Saudis bomb them

Kurds are commies and war criminals
they deserve to be genocided desu even Turkey will make better use of these lands

this

>the iq of turks was around 60

first of all give sources just like me, or stfu. secondly for the last 15-20 years south eastern turkey has been getting more investments from government than relatively poorer regions (eastern black sea is an example). It is not about the investments, it's about the people who live in that region and their toxic good for nothing culture. you have no idea how many factories was burnt down by Pkk, how many teachers were killed just because they were teaching Turkish language. You're, just like rest of the westerner on this topic, shitting non existent events from the comfort of your chair.

>Ban their language
>Army invades their towns like what is happening right now in Cizre, which is the direct reason of the rise of PKK insurgency in the Cizre region
>Extrajudicial arrests and prison sentences on ''suspected'' kurdish separatists and militants
>Civilians murdered by militaries
Just to name a few.

Possibly. Though it would seem that for the foreseeable future, Russia will continue their support for Assad. One can only hope .

>You're, just like rest of the westerner on this topic, shitting non existent events from the comfort of your chair.
rude desu

>The closer to Europe you get the higher the IQ
Really makes you think

As far as i remember, Saddam wanted dat sweet oil from Kuwait, that's why he was targeted by pretty much everyone.

Although Houthis are making a great resistance and humilitaing the Saudis, i don't think they'll be able to hold shit for much longer if the coalition campaign keeps going, sure their victory would be great, but they would end up having a country that it's in a worse shape than Syria, with several groups killing each other and they have no other support other than Military, unless they chinks step in and put another base in Yemen for dat sweet sea routes.

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>lol this sounds kind of WE tier
No, that's just very document facts and thinks any academic historian know about, I can give you some citations if you want.
I mean the fatimid army was basically 1/3 black, 1/3 turk, 1/3 berber. The abbasid for most of their history depended heavily of ù

Honestly I don't think that in over 10 crusades and 200 years of war, the europeans really even fought against arabs, either from the golf or from levant/egypt/iraq.

>human rights
No such thing

This is untrue. Russia just would have had to step in earlier. Once Russian air support came in, the rebels stood no chance

>Civilians murdered by militaries

please give respectable sources on that. but i can give sources on how many teachers and other civilians were killed by PKK

>Ban their language

it's not 80's old man, you do not talking about racism in America while giving niggers not being able to sit in the bus as a reference anymore. They can speak their language. There is even state official k*rdish channel on tv.

>Army invades their towns like what is happening right now in Cizre, which is the direct reason of the rise of PKK insurgency in the Cizre region

Why don't you explain why this happened in the first place anyway? It might related to the fact that they've used the "peace process" time to digging trenches in the cities, stock piling ammo and explosion in civilian areas.

>Extrajudicial arrests and prison sentences on ''suspected'' kurdish separatists and militants

how is this a bad thing? would you not arrest suspected isis members?

The IQ of non-city Turks in 1977 was 63.5 to 68.78, pic related. So 30 points lower than today.

You're familiar with the flynn effect, aren't you? You don't seriously think that the reason that the average iq in the turkish regions of turkey is higher than the kurdish reasons for any other reasons that develoment and education?

>you have no idea how many factories was burnt down by Pkk, how many teachers were killed just because they were teaching Turkish language

This is why I said partially turkey's fault. PKK has his part of the blame too.
I don't support kurds at all, especially after all the ethnic cleasing they did in syria/iraq lately.

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It really is incredible how desperately the the West and its puppets are to crush Middle Eastern resistance. I was thinking of making one of those online petitions to make UK government cease their support. Fuck Saudi and fuck Israel.

No that's fine I can imagine that many of the Islamic conquests were carried out by non-Arab converts.
However I know that during the Crusades, while much of the actual combat was against Turkic nomads, most of the land that was actually conquered was in war against specifically Arabs. For example, when the Crusaders first fought in the Holy Land, that land was only recently retaken by the Egyptian Caliphate from the Seljuks.

you got punked by russia and it hurts you
and thats a good thing

So Pkk ruining all the investments we made on South Eastern Turkey by destroying factories, killing people who work for government, forcing children to not to go to schools, kidnapping people and using them as militants against turkish army is actually our fault and not the people who live in that area and support PKK? What kind of logic is this? You can pour as much resources on niggers you want, they will stay as niggers. There is a reason no one in the Middle East like k*rds.

>pretty incredible
Yeah, until you realise that most of the territory attributed to them there is nothing but uninhabited desert. A lot of map makers at the time left it blank since there was nothing there to even be under anyone's control.

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>most of the land that was actually conquered was in war against specifically Arabs
I really, really doubt that, because I know this subject in details. The governor of the area/land the first crusaders took were kutama (berbers), and Jerusalem was protected by a nubian/black army. The rest of the fatimid army around was mostky turkic ghulam.

pic related, the berber and turkic soldiers the "egyptian" caliphate.

>when the Crusaders first fought in the Holy Land, that land was only recently retaken by the Egyptian Caliphate

The "Egyptian" caliphate was born among berbers, and it was born out of hatred for arabs (aghlabids, to not name them). And like I said,

I've a very long and very precise document about the composition of fatimid army that you call egyptian caliphate, and at any point you can find any mention of arabs. The army was made of blacks, berbers and turks, who fought each others a lot.
I can share it with you if you want.

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2016 isn't ISIS peak tho, 2014-15 is

...

Knowing which parts of Syria are just empty desert also lets you see how little impact the Syrian government + Russia actually had on the defeat of ISIS. The government's advances look impressive when you paint the uninhabited desert, but the reality is that they weren't.

Nobody likes Kurds in the middle-east because they are a minority who want their own free autonomous nation in an arab majority war ridden hell hole. You are brainwashed by the Ankara state TV. I bet you also believe that Gülen was behind that coup a few years ago.

I said partially again, I'm not putting all the fault on Turkey. But PKK didn't came out of thin air, the kurdish revendications aren't totally baseless, you can understand that some doesnt feel turk and doesnt want to be in turkey and want their own state that was denied to them for many reason in the early 20th after the ottoman collapsed.

I mean even before 1978, and since 1921, before Turkey even legally existed, this conflict already existed
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_rebellions_in_Turkey

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Said_rebellion
>40,000–250,000 civilians killed

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dersim_rebellion
>50,000–80,000[6] killed

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koçgiri_rebellion

This conflict isn't one sided, and honestly it's better to just let them be their own country at this point, even if it will never gonna happend.

Don't forget their demography too, they will be a serious threat to democracy in the near futur when they're a third or half of the population.

Do not bother arguing with Turks. They are literal non-thinking drones that never doubt their government

hmm okay you seem to know this topic fairly well. Do you know the composition of the Mamluk armies? I would be interested to know if these later forces were of similar composition.
And yes please link your document

They took Mosul. That's Iraq's 2nd city. That would be a gargantuan achievement in itself

go back Jow Forumssyriancivilwar. you're literally supporting people who live as tribes in 2019, let that fact sink in. you're a k*rdish diaspora anyway.

First of all the rebellions you've linked are done in order to create a sharia zone in their respective areas, they were not related to nationalism. I'm aware that pkk didn't came out of thin air, but the thing is, in the period that k*rds got shit on, literally no one in Turkey was living happily. If there was oppression, it was for everyone. And things have changed since then a lot, there literally no reason for them want a country for themselves. K*rdish people still live as tribes and they literally hate each other and have different agendas. There is a reason why they never ever had a state in history. A k*rdish state in middle east, in this age, would only complicate and destabilize things further. If you are happy with the how Sykes-Pycot turned out, feel free to support this idea/state, but for us people who live in geography and want stable middle east, a k*rdish state is literally worse than hitler.

A guy from a country that managed to preserve its language, religion and culture by the grace of Turks talking about brainwashing. We should've educated you, just like how Spanish educated the new world.

>the thing is, in the period that k*rds got shit on, literally no one in Turkey was living happily. If there was oppression, it was for everyone

Well during Irish rebellions and civil war people in England and Scotland were living in slums, being beaten by police and being forced into conscription...

The Irish were still allowed their own state, so I don't see how your argument holds up. The Irish (like the Kurds) were treated like shit so obviously they will dislike Turkish dominated political system dominating and controlling them.

>Do you know the composition of the Mamluk armies? I would be interested to know if these later forces were of similar composition

You mean the Mamluk Sultanate of Cairo? Because Mamluk mean a lot of different armies and dynasties across the world.
And by later forces, you mean in the late 15th? Or you mean the mameluk egyptian army in the 17th, 18 and 19th? (I assume you know the mameluks ruled egypt until the 19th)
Because it's very different topics. I've very accurate studies and books about those subjects.

About the fatimid the-eye.eu/public/WorldTracker.org/World History/Crusades and Islamic Armies/Osprey - Men at Arms 320 - Armies of the Caliphates 862-1098 ad.pdf

And : The Fatimids even at their lowest level had 70,000 Turks, 50,000 Berber Kutama, 30,000 black soldiers slaves of Zanj, 4,000 Mamluk Ghilman, 10,000 Qaysariyya, 20,000 other black slaves masamida, 15,000 Batiliyya, several thousand white soldiers (Saqaliba), several thousand "Romans" (Rum, from the Byzantine Maghreb) etc.
In total 28%-37% of the army was black (slaves).
online.sfsu.edu/mroozbeh/CLASS/H-604-pdfs/12-Lev-Fatimid.pdf

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

so obviously the kurds will*

Yes I'm sorry I should've specified. I was talking about the Mamluks during the 14-15th centuries, not later as in "early modern".

And thanks for the articles, I'll read through them later

What the fuck is going on? Why is this French flag trying to tarnish the glorious arab history? Ironic how posters on this board like to lecture about things they know jack shit about.

but the independance of any ethnic group is autotelic, they don't need any other reason than they want to be their own country, the sovereignty of any people is an international right.
Ideally, there should be a referendum (like we have in France for Corsia and other regions) and a vote in the kurdish regions for independance or not.

>If you are happy with the how Sykes-Pycot turned out
The Brits betrayed the arabs who were promised an arab kingdom. And Sykes Pycot werent the problem, it's the events that happend later (baathism, cold war, israel, us interventions etc.)

>a k*rdish state is literally worse than hitler
I can understand the usual security reasons, but if Turkey is free of any kurdish region, why would the newly formed kurdish country be even a threat or care about turkey? They just would be an other us ally and an israeli ally.

The only domino effect that can happend is that they want their independance in syria (that they already have de facto) and iraq and iran. But it's kinda their right to form their own country on their own land. (as long as they don't ethnically cleanse arabs there).
I don't really see a kurdish state being a threat to turkey, considering how much turkey is stronger than any eventual kurdish state.

>destabilize things further
We pretty much reached the apex with the syria-iraq civil war, can't be worse. And kurds being denied their own state is one the reason.

>And kurds being denied their own state is one the reason.
yeah but what would those borders be?

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It's a shame, because I studied the mameluks in egypt during the ottoman era (1517 until mehmet ali in 1850)
Here is an academic link about the army composition of the mameluks armies and the mameluks representation in power between 1770 and 1830 books.openedition.org/psorbonne/2478

You can see in pic related that it was split between arabs (the majority), then turks, mameluks, christians etc. Mameluks got ottoanized a lot in their structure.

Also, did you know that the janissairies in Egypt were actually mostly arabs that really, really wanted to be janissairies?

>According to Mardis (1989: 58), Aleppo had some 4000 indigenous Janissaries in the 18th century, while in Cairo there were some 14000 (Hathaway, 1997: 14).

I've a book on the late 14-15th centuries mameluks army, I can find it, but it's rather boring iirc, it was mostly circassian and such. Not many arabs.

Here is the proper article about the fatimid army and its composition : jstor.org/stable/163658?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

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Turkey literally illegally occupied part of the sovereign independent country. Where are condemnations and sanctions, burgers?

that's the question, because they claim many lands that have been arabized by now. And they just can't continue their ethnic cleasing/kurdification in many syrians/iraqis cities, it's a serious human right violation.
I'm not the one who decide that, it should be a negociation between the different parties, but neither Assad or the Iraqi state or Turkey or Iran will ever consider giving the land they're occupying to kurds.

>arab history
Islamic history. There is no such thing as arab history.

You can't name a single relevant arab in the middle east in the last 1100 years.

Turkey is one the biggest allies Ukraine has, dont talk negative about them oleg

>builds gas pipeline together with russians, bypassing Ukraine
Turks are certainly not Ukraine's allies. They are two-faced opportunists.

“no”

thanks user. I am suprised that they were not more reliant on africans, when the former empires seemed to be so reliant on them

>it was mostly circassian and such.
uhh, you sure about that? Why would they drag circassians all that way? how many circassians even were there to bring into their army?

>neither Assad or the Iraqi state or Turkey or Iran will ever consider giving the land they're occupying to kurds.
this. unfortunate, however. Perhaps Assad and iraq could be convinced to give up the northern territories that are practically kurdistan anyway. It’s a problematic situation though, since turkey would not respond well

Political support to Ukraine against Russia

TR-UA Visa liberation

Acknowledging Ukrainian territorial sovereignty
Defense deals

Trade

Turkish government forced Constantinople Orthodox Patriarch to give Ukrainian Church independence

Financial assistance

Building infrastructure