Catholics please answer

Matthew 16:13-18 New International Version (NIV)
Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it.

[X] Based
[X] Redpilled

youtu.be/faIB-sOBDKk
I really like this video

biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/18.htm

>basing your moral beliefs on ancient scripture of some jewish goatfuckers tribe

>Having morals
Weak.

corruption of the Holy Scriptures, my friend

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Well according to autist Germans, we non autist are okay.with it.

>It's not written anywhere that I should not be aroused by scat so I am gonna masturbate to this shit. Also I am Germanic

>Where in the Bible does it say we can worship relics like some kind of heathens out in the jungle?

This meme needs to stop
worship=/=veneration

>Where in the Bible does it say anything about having a pope?
It's a succession of Bishops when St Peter handed control to Linus

If you want to talk about religion ask /his/

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not an argument

You're not going to get a good answer. The problems are societal, and to paste religious teachings over it, however noble a cause, is doomed to fail. It has more to do with the very nature of catholic culture, and it's relation to those who were only "partially" involved.
Had to for school, and I'm going to say it again. it's a shitpost by a pissed off German.

That being said religion is interesting but to actually believe in the shit with every fiber is kinda silly, but that's just my opinion. People will live as they do.

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>the bible is a shitpost of a pissed off german

There seems to be a lot of Catholics worshi-, I mean "veneering", pieces of Jesus' cross, statues of saints, probably golden cows as well.

Did Jesus ever command a succession of this kind? Did he say to Peter that everyone after him are God's represent in the flesh, and is to be elected by random bishops from around the world?

>If you want to talk about religion ask /his/
Sorry, did I interrupt yet another thread about South Korean trannies?

I would unironically be muslim rather than a p*pist

Mad?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Turkish_piracy

No the 95 theses are.

of course people revere holy relics, that doesn’t mean they’re worshipped

>He is treated and revered as something divine

kek

shows how little you actually care about jesus

Scriptural texts proposed in support of Peter's special position in relation to the church include:

Matthew 16:
I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.[76]

Luke 22:
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.[77]

John 21:
Feed my sheep

Then why did Peter have Linus succeed him then? So he can have a laugh down from heaven seeing how two anons are arguing about why he did it?

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>Please someone explain this to me
>Oh, there is an explanation
>No you are wrong
Why have this thread at all?

Jesus is included in the Quran. Shia muslims usually have a pretty respectable view on religion, see how Iran is ruled verses Saudi Arabia, who go only by tradition.

>american reading comprehension
every post of yours itt is retarded, fuck off

go suck mohammads cock you goat fucking shitskin

threads like this should've been moved to /his/
fucking hell

Lol where did I make you angry?
It literally is a German bitching about issues he saw in modern society. It just had to do entirely with the church part of society.

This is every religious debate I've witnessed.
It's somehow less productive than debating politics here in the US.

Jesus has the power to bestow Peter as his spokesperson on Earth, and by that right Peter can elect Linus as his successor. From how I see it, Linus has no right to elect someone as chosen by the divinites. He's just a man.

And furthermore, popes of today are chosen by councils of arbitrarily elected bishops. How could anyone see that as Jesus bestowing them the power of representing him on earth?

Besides, the last pope quit this divine calling. I didn't know that was an option for someone chosen by the heavens.

>Jesus is included in the Quran.
As no more than a prophet.

>Shia muslims usually have a pretty respectable view on religion, see how Iran is ruled verses Saudi Arabia
Is this nigga serious?

Iran and Saudi Arabia are both as bad as each other. All the least fanatical Muslim states are all Sunni, and out of Iran and Saudi Arabia, the latter is the one undergoing reform while the former's leadership ardently keeps it stuck in the 7th Century.

>basing your moral beliefs on ancient scripture of some jewish goatfuckers tribe
how does this imply anything about luther? I'm shitting on all of christianity

And I'm shitting on Luther lol
I think you may have me confused for someone invested in this for some greater reason than boredom.

>They appeal as well to other documents of the early Church, especially the Epistle of Clement.[5] In this context, Clement explicitly states that the apostles appointed bishops as successors and directed that these bishops should in turn appoint their own successors; given this, such leaders of the Church were not to be removed without cause and not in this way.

also
>From how I see it
user you don't view history through any biased lens.

Iran, for the most part, stay true to the scriputes and let women drive and go to university etc, because there's nothing that says that they can't. Literally no terrorist from this region, either.

Saudi Arabia have a bunch of arbitrary rules, such as the women-aren't-allowed-to-drive meme, which is just made up. They also execute witches, produce terrorism and fund wahabism around the world

That said, theocracies aren't ever a good thing. But I don't see being a shia muslim as that bad, I'd rather be Shia than a catholic.

where does it say in the bible to only do things written in the bible and completely ignore anything else (that's not holding enormous tv show-like megachurches swindling idiots for cash of course)

If Catholics were capable of independent thought they'd have left when all the smart people did 500 years ago. What you're seeing the result of a brain drain over the centuries, and this is what is left.

I always laugh when people say "Oh no, all these , will this doom the Catholic Church?" No! If pope's having carnal pleasure gardens and selling forgiveness didn't disgust them, do you think a few kids getting diddled would matter at all? These are people incapable of not being told what to believe and how to feel. They NEED an intermediary to talk to God, they need extravagantly ornate churches, they need to be told how to worship. They NEED the ritual pageantry, because without the routine they might have to turn on their brain. They need to be told "well that was a disgrace for sure... but we've really cleaned up our act this time, for real real!" every single generation, because they like being treated like shit. Oh, and they endure all this and pay tithe to do it.
>Read the Bible and find out for yourself >Absurd! Can you just put on a dress/robe and tell me how I should feel? I'll pay you whatevs!

What do you mean; "anything else?"
The Bible is what decides over Christianity. What else would? That makes no sense.

Best post so far. Thank you for your input, my Mutt friend

>such as the women-aren't-allowed-to-drive meme
This is now gone.

>They also execute witches
Iran executes all manner of innocents as well.

>produce terrorism
Saudi Arabia is cracking down on this now. Meanwhile Iran is considered the number one state sponsor of terror in the world by the US.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism

why is veneration of saints bad? Because it's not in the bible?

Orthodox is the true Chad.

It's sacrilegious. You should worship God and Jesus, not just arbitrary people.

b&r post right here

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And they don't even know their own faith!
I've had friends and coworker who literally said
>"I can do and as long as I ask for forgiveness I'm good."

I'm not exaggerating. What?! These people can't even follow directions when a priest spells it out for them. And you expect them to function without a rigid ecclesiastical hierarchy? Of course there has to be a Pope

>meanwhile in america

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this Goes back to Moses and the Golden Cow.
You shall not venerate any others but God, and this includes icons.

This brings up another problem with the church: the way they find "miracles" and run the ensuing site/town like an amusement park. Selling candles and holy water and those little wallet-sized pictures of saints or Jesus to gullible pilgrims.

>hurr durr some kids saw Jesus
>*investigates miraculous claim*
>Steeeeeep right up folks! See the water stain that looks like Jesus, only $9.99! $90 gets you 10 tickets and a picture with the stain!"
No shame

>Meanwhile Iran is considered the number one state sponsor of terror in the world by the US.
Of course because that's what their masters, Saudis and Israel tell them.

christianity is lame but at least non-protestants manage to put a modicum of pathos in the thing

protestants rolls royce sermons or the wretched quakers or whatever have nothing to do with any form of higher being

>Catholicism looks cooler
Yeah okay, I don't think you should reply any further

>weasel the shit out of yourself
>make it look edgy by putting profanity in there for no reason
youre 12 arent you?
>ask for answer
>get the dumbest possible answers
>"duhh, why argue?"

har du inte en öken att vara i din inavlade kamelknullare?

it's the richness of the history, theology and art
protestants hate authority because they're communists, so everything they have is ugly

>gospel prosperity
>posting the church that almost all Americans are revolted by
Only Westboro Baptist Church is probably hated more.

But yes, some denominations are terrible and if there's a God they will certainly be fucked. There are a lot of black preachers down South who drive around in Maseratis and white silk suits, for example.

But that's the beauty of Protestantism. Our split allowed the faith to spread outwards with thousands of different voices. So corruption and distortion of the Word can never be completely subverted. And with this choice, people can make their own choices in ways that would never have been allowed in an all Catholic Europe. When there is one one Church, the rot only has to silence one voice. Where there are many voices, it has to silence all of them.

Don't mistake my explanation for condoning all of of the Protestant denominations. Some of the 'voices' are definitely wrong. But the point is that it's great that there could ever be more than one voice at all. But the structure of the Catholic Church lends itself easily to corruption, I think we can all agree. How can laypeople hold God's own emissary accountable?

lmao didnt read

just like make a prayer to some saint bro

Bible also specifically says call no one father as it is a title reserved for the Lord but they went and goofed that too.

I find Catholics put very little importance on actual scripture and more importance on stupid man made rituals.

what you don't understand is that roman catholicism is basically the continuation of roman paganism traditions. We like to have our own personal semideities to choose, like back in the day I would have maybe chosen some forest demigod, like the creek spirit of the woods, and worship him/her or sort.
It's funny and gets life going. Meanwhile paganism lead to fucked up sects like I don't know mormons, baptists, or whatever mentally ill people imagined to interpreted that old bullshit book.

I like to have my cool statues of cool saints, gods and whatever and invent mythologycal legends and stories about them

also we get to have cool churches and wonderful music so I don't really see your problem, maybe envy? go write some idiocy and attach it to some church, weirdo

>keeps bringing up prosperity gospel, which is almost universally despised
>criticizes Protestantism for not having enough art
Protestants have extremely unremarkable and minimal churches because we know that money should go to something more meaningful. We don't need a giant church with steeples and stained glass and gold cups. A lot of churches literally consist of folding chairs in some guys basement, because it's supposed to be your relationship with God. Not how fucking nice and cool everything looks.
Also, while no one would be sad if we shut down Joel "God wants me to be rich from Christianity" Olsteen's, that'd be a bit hypocritical wouldn't you agree? He'll have to answer for it eventually.
But hey, at least he doesn't claim to be selling forgiveness for sins, right?

>its the history, theology and art
Many sects of Protestants think that any kind of images of God/Jesus are sacrilegious. There is a rich wealth of Protestant art, but not as prevalent as Catholic art because A) we're much newer, and B) many protestant artists refused to paint religious stuff because they actually read the Bible. Again, this goes back to Moses and the Golden Calf, and also to prioritizing resources to actually help people.
>people starve to death every minute of every day
>but we made a really bitching stainglass window
>cost the price of a few hundred meals but you can't put a price on that AESTHETIC

>we sin, but it's okay because look over there
>cool churches
epic
also do you even know what a baptist is?

a small spirit needs only a small lodging
in the end protestants make no art because their spirits are as empty as a upside down cup

>what you don't understand is that roman catholicism is basically the continuation of roman paganism traditions
Trust me, we all figured it out. Like everyone in the past 500 years who actually thought about for more than a minute probably saw some corollaries there.

>how did the Christians sell monotheism to the polytheistic Romans (i.e. predecessors to modern Italy)
>Catholics love their Saints, perhaps most of all in Spain and Italy
>oh, I get it now

Seriöst, ja har sett psykfall skriva rimligare
blev du antastad av en lesbo präst när du var liten eller?

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lmao imagine believing about bullshit like heaven and hell sin and whatnot.
why yes, I prefer art and beautiful stuff rather than stressing my life about some crazy men mental delusions about imaginary entities.

Alienating your own humanity too much is bad, but of course what would you know about that

not everyone figured that out, as you can see from this thread

fjöl av, laestadius

Imagine believing there is some sky man looking over the universe saying "don't masturbate". Then killing each other because you interpret the sky man differently. Abrahamic judeo religion in a nutshell.

imagine thinking we are the product of randomness from nothing.

Atheists are fucking retarded

>their spirits are as empty as a upside down cup
Funny how you just can't seem to wrap your head around a religion without art. Is your Bible a picture book, or would that defeat the purpose of having someone to tell you what to believe?

>cup
What is it with you people and pimp cups? Why does it HAVE to be made out of some precious metal?

>not everyone figured that out, as you can see from this thread
You're unironically correct. I forgot where I was

>if you don't like it you simply don't understand it
I understand religion without art, I think you're a bunch of losers

go larp in your adam & eve & dinosaurs theme park cletus

#99869268
>athiest catholic crusader
i feel gross for having interacted with you
ärligt talat, du får mej att tro att det svenska hanröjeriet är hundra procent genetiskt.
ni kan inte sluta hata allt som har med er själva att göra å dyrkar iställe bruna apor, varesig de är från irak eller italien

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>randomness from nothing
What part of the theory of the origin of life are you having trouble with? Would you like me to walk you through it?

Can I presume that this conversation will devolve into
>yes but how does the fact that we don't know what preceded the Big Bang mean that God did it?
>YOU CAN'T PROVE HE DIDN'T! nah-nah nah-nah nah!
?

>He is treated and revered
Correct
>as something divine
No
>this woman is not
>"most reverend"
>Also the Swedish church is hardly a good example of a church who stays true to the Bible
It's a lutheran church, isn't it?

This. If you want to meme on Catholicism for not being biblical, this is not the way to do it. Try retarded shit like the veneration of Mary, accumulate conception (which refers to the conception of Je- nah, Mary. That's right, MARY had a divine conception too! But the Bible never mentions it!) or transsubstantiation.

If you're a materialist atheist and not at the same time a moral nihilist, you're a pussy who can't face the logical consequences of his own beliefs.

lol föreställ er att säga detta när man följer en judisk religion från mellanöstern

>I know our faith hasn't managed to get its priorities in order in over 500 years!
>And I know that very little of what the Church says and does is actually in the Bible
>BUT- BUT THE ART!
I see. So I claim that the Church prioritizes things contrary to the teachings of Christ, and you rebuke me by saying that... we have no good art. Which in your eyes, makes us worse Christians.

Ok! Well then thanks friend, you've more helpful than I could possibly have hoped for.

pysen, du vet väl att sajten har en åldersgräns?

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>Where in the Bible does it say anything about having a pope?

The scripture should not hold absolute authority, we know it was compilled from several sources by men, we know guys who compilled it and we even have books and other material that were considered for canon but ultimately were not included. We are not muslims, sola scriptura makes no sense from christian perspective. Highly educated Luther had to be aware of this! Okay I get the argument that it is supposed to be divinely inspired, but didn’t prophets generally know they are being talked to by God or angel. The men who compilled the Bible to my knowledge never claimed such a thing. Why woudl they be silent about it?!

>How come mere human men elect someone who's supposed to be "the voice of God"?

IDK, I am not catholic, guess when you have a big church you need some sort of CEO with fancy title.

be sure to bring this epic btfoing up to your church community this sunday friend

>And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it.
Fuck, that doesn't make any sense in english as it does in french or greek.
This is enough proof for me that english is a tongue of the Devil

>imagine thinking we are the product of randomness from nothing.

Imagine there is infinite number of random universe each slightly different form the rest and you only get to observe the one where you exist. Even very unlikel y events become certain with infinite numebr of tries.

>the source of our religion should not be infallible, but rapists, pedophiles and blasphemers should be if they wear the magic hat
you are an absolute tard, why even argue if you admit you have no stake in this

>The scripture should not hold absolute authority, we know it was compilled from several sources by men
So it MAY have been written decades or even centuries afterwards by the unreliable hands of men, therefore we should... definitively obey the word of man?

The Scripture is all we have. Anything other than the possibly Divine scripture is definitively not Devine.
And no need to get into how the Bible was written a long time after Christ's life to be used primarily as a political instrument. Or the Q document, or the Apocrypha, or inconsistencies between the Gospels etc etc. That's something for another thread I think

My main issue with proddies is that they most of the time simply get the bible wrong.

Do Christians really believe Noah and the guys around those times lived hundreds of years?
And women got pregnant when they were like 80?

>The Scripture is all we have.

No, we also have milenia of tradition and christian philosophy. If you need divine material straight from God to consider religion legitimate you should consider Islam.

Baserad.

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>be sure to bring this epic btfoing up to your church community this sunday friend
No, you clearly still don't fucking get it at all, friend. See, I'm not Catholic, so it's enough that I know about this conversation without bringing to anyone. I don't NEED to have a church official, or anyone else, to validate this conversation, because I'm Protestant.

Although to be honest it's interesting that the first thing you thought I would do Sunday involved running to the church to blab about my personal life to a Church official.
Instead of, you know, actually contemplating my relationship with God without involving any other people.
#JustCatholicThings I guess (:

>we also have milenia of tradition and christian philosophy.

And there is where the real problem is at.
Tradition is not an immutable absolute, but a practice that only grows more elaborate until the original basis for it ends up completely consumed, like how it is with Holy Mary's worshi- whoops, veneration.

Without a reset button of some sort, you will inevitably end up with belief IN tradition rather than in what tradition used to stood for in the first place.

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yes I'm sure you get plenty of contemplation on Jow Forums you living cartoon of a human being