Why is Israel such US-bitch?

Mar 29, 2018: Israel Sells Croatia 12 F-16 Fighter Jets for $500 Million

haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-sells-croatia-12-f-16-fighter-jets-for-500-million-1.5961627

US blocking Israeli sale of used F-16s to Croatia. Trump administration said angered Israel did not seek its approval to sell the American-made fighters and added advanced electronic systems to the jets

timesofisrael.com/us-blocking-israeli-sale-of-used-f-16s-to-croatia-report/

After months of delay, a $500 million deal between Israel and Croatia to buy F-16 fighter jets is officially dead because of “unforeseen problems”, Israel’s Defense Ministry announced Thursday night.

jpost.com/Israel-News/Citing-problems-Israel-says-sale-of-F-16s-to-Croatia-dead-577009

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Other urls found in this thread:

news.lockheedmartin.com/2006-09-15-Lockheed-Martin-Rolls-Out-Poland-F-16-NATOs-Most-Advanced-Fighter
youtube.com/watch?v=VtgFZI-c_zY
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

The Amerimutt will deliver F-16 to Croatia himself now. For 3x higher price.

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In aviation, even a small piece can block your entire sale. Even Russia got blocked because they wanted to sell their SuperJet 100 to Iran, but it got blocked because it had US-made components.

Or buy Eurofighters/Gripens depending on how much they wanna spend.

>n aviation, even a small piece can block your entire sale.

I can't really imagine the US blocking selling super-advanced technology to its strategic ally: Poland, including technologies that we get even ahead of US-Army. Maybe Croatia is just a shithole that could sell these tech to Russia and China?

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This kind of contracts are not about prices but about political statements. They chose to buy US stuff rather than European stuff the 1st time, so they'll do it again. Just like Belgium did a few months ago.

It's reallt weird how they act sometimes. They block stuff for US friendly countries from time to time with some shitty excuse.
In Croatia's case, they probably wanted them to buy straight from America instead of buying from Israel, reasons? Idk.

A few months ago Embraer got a contract with Nigeria to sell them some SuperTucanos, which the US govt blocked since the engine is American and they gave a shitty excuse that Nigeria was comitting war crimes.
Then months later they authorize the sale of the ST's, but they sold via FMS, so the ones sold are the ones with "Made in Usa" stamps, which still dumb since Embraer still builds the main components and then ship to US to get the final assembly.

We get literally everything from the US we ever want. JASSM-ER that was introduced to US Army a while ago: sure, why not. New C4 air defence system that is being currently going through tests and Poland gets it a bit earlier than US Army: sure why not. The USA even gave us green light for purchase of newest version of Tomahawk missiles, meanwhile even the UK has old version and they can use this old version only after getting authorisation of the USA looool.

America simply trusts Poland. Good for them.

I think it's because the Polish govt it's very subservent of the US desu. I mean they were literally offering millions so they could put a base there, so they know that Poland wouldn't end up selling their tech no China, like Israel does.

By the way, even if we talk about F-16, Poland received the most advanced version of these planes ever created in 2006. Back then in 2006 the version of F-16 for Poland included all most modern systems the USA managed to create up to this date and they were most advanced fighter jets in NATO.

news.lockheedmartin.com/2006-09-15-Lockheed-Martin-Rolls-Out-Poland-F-16-NATOs-Most-Advanced-Fighter

Like i said, Poland loves america too much to act cheeky behind their backs.

>F-16's NATO's most advanced fighter.

Wouldn't the be the F-35 at least?

>reasons? Idk.
Americans themselves wanted the money and they stopped the deal without losing anything, except reputation. Euros might be more interested in EU jets since Americans get all smart about 40 year old tech.

>Wouldn't the be the F-35 at least?

There was no F-35 in 2006 yet

Israeli F-16i's are pretty good, better than some being used by the USAF. The reputation thing makes sense.

>Euros might be more interested in EU jets since Americans get all smart about 40 year old tech.

Didn't Germany and France tried to do that again and they already had problems right of the bat?

I see, maybe Rafales were.

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Well, if it's developed by Israel it's only their ass on the line if the tech leaks. Zero risk for Americans.

>rafale
Or superhornets.

we're trying to shore up your defenses (and the rest of europe by extension) against possible russian aggression.

I was thinking more on the European area, obviously US had the creme de la creme of fighter jets.

>I see, maybe Rafales were.

Dude. Special version of F-16 produced by Lockheed Martin in 2005 especially for Poland including our specific needs, is completely different jet fighter than F-16 produced in 90s or 80s.

Does it have AESA?

Europugilist 2000 then.

>Does it have AESA?

There was no AESA in 2005. But sure, our F-16 are getting constant modernisation-packs, it also includes AESA that were introduced to Poland the same year South Korea got it.

Buy new shit you cheap ass muthafuckas

>Europugilist 2000

heh.. heheh

Sure i believe, but at the same time i don't believe that US would give all their top of the line stuff like this, they probably sandbagged a few stuff.

>Sure i believe, but at the same time i don't believe that US would give all their top of the line stuff like this,

I actually believe it. They know that 40 mln of Poles are just their soldiers, we are ready to die for them. So they have nothing to lose.

>12 F-16s
>500 million
>unit price in 1998 for a brand new F-16 was 18.8 million

>Israeli canopy flies off at 30,000 feet

Stop selling cheap stuff for the choosen people.

youtube.com/watch?v=VtgFZI-c_zY

Wew la

Then what was the difference to other jets from the era?

There's training, parts, maintenance costs and other shit that adds up the price.

>Then what was the difference to other jets from the era?

The difference was that our F-16 produced by the USA for us in 2005 were the most advanced jet fighters in NATO according to objective comparisons back then, and it was officially being admitted by the US : USA knows better which jets had best abilities back then in 2006 in the NATO organisation, otherwise they wouldn't be saying such things

>The difference was that our F-16 produced by the USA for us in 2005 were the most advanced jet fighters in NATO according to objective comparisons back then, and it was officially being admitted by the US :
This reminds me an old Kummeli sketch where the Land Cruiser seller (USA) tells the homosexual pair (Poland) that the land cruiser is not only the best but also the most expensive choice. This is an actual description of the sketch.

Just kidding. I was sort of interested what it had. The MLU for our Hornets brough helmet mounted sights and some other shit including LINK16 which was worse than the one we had build ourselves but that wasn't NATO compatible.

It is America that has 10.000 nukes, not Europe. America is a big boy. If Russia ever agrees to talk to somebody, it is going to be America, not Europe. So why should Poland buy weapon from Europe?

It's dangerous being completely dependant in a country for defense desu.

Not in Poland's situation. No matter how much weapon we could get from Germany and France, we are unable to defend ourselves from Russia anyway. But USA is powerful enough to make such deals with Russia, so we wouldn't be killed here. Germany and France can't make such deals

Like I said I was just interested in what it had.

But one reason could be that Euros always have to defend Europe but USA doesn't. Also atm USA has a Russian asset as a president.

>But one reason could be that Euros always have to defend Europe

Wrong. Germany has to defend itself. France has to defend itself. Spain has to defend itself. Italy has to defend itself. But all of this has nothing to do with defending Poland.

Russia will probably never touch poland, even if US didn't interferes. The focus now is China.

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If your country had border with Russia, you would see things otherwise. No fucking way disarmed Germany or surrender-France could ever do anything to stop Russia from hurting us, even if they wanted, but they don't even want it, because they don't care. USA is still the most powerful country on Earth, Russia is on third position, so it is more probable for Russia and the USA to divide the world in a peaceful way than for Germany and Russia or France and Russia. Germany and France would just get the Russian dick up their mouth and shut up out of fear. I hate to admit it but Poland has no alternative for the USA. USA knows it that's why they don't even have to pretend that we are their property.

US only cares about their interests fren... if Poland gets in their way, there is no amount of bootlicking that will save your country from being stabbed in the back.

Poland has such a crucial geographic location that it is actually in interest of the USA to keep us alive in one way or another.

Thing is, ur govt shouldn't rely on foreign cunts too much for the country's defense. Even if they don't stand a chance against Russia.
If Israel in a desert managed, so Poland can.

>Also atm USA has a Russian asset as a president.

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>If Israel in a desert managed, so Poland can.

Israel is surrounded by countries whose military firepower is 1/5 of Poland's. It is not being sandwiched between Germany and Russia. So our situation is absolutely incomparable with Israel's. Powers that influence our country are incomparably stronger. Poland is also placed in 1000x more important place than Israel from a geopolitical point of view. We are more important for all major powers such as Russia/Germany/USA/China than Israel with its geographic location.

Idk, Israel is surrounded by a bunch of people who wants them dead, while Poland still have tons of frens in yurop

>Israel is surrounded by a bunch of people who wants them dead

It doesn't matter becaue all these people who want them dead don't have enough strenght to kill them

> while Poland still have tons of frens in yurop

There is no friends in politics. Especially in Europe.

>It doesn't matter becaue all these people who want them dead don't have enough strenght to kill them

It still a threat that should be taken very seriously.

>There is no friends in politics. Especially in Europe.

That's everywhere.

>That's everywhere.

But Europe is truly a pack of wild wolves. Polish people were being pushed to ovens in industrial way yet few decades ago. Has smth like this ever happened to people in your continent? I don't fucking thing so. There is no limits of evil-doing for Europe and Russia. They are fucking satanic.

Polish govt didn't invested enough on defense at that time i guess? Now Polish military is pretty good.

Polish military can't defend itself from Russia or even from Germany if it by some miracle decides to rise its military spendings from 1% GDP to 2% GDP. We basically can't. It is impossible. Brazil can defend itself from Venezuela or Argentina. But Poland can't defend itself from Russia or Germany.

I'm pretty sure i read a few weeks ago that the German military, although modern, they're in a pretty bad shape, specially their airforce.

American media are spreading these rumors to force Germany to spend more for NATO. But i am pretty sure that even today's Bundeswehr which is indeed in a horrible shape, is still more capable than Poland's army.

Idk, even euro news are saying that.

Dude, goddamit. You must understand that Germany is a serious country. It is not ruled by idiots. If they prefer to build new gas and oil pipelines with Russia instead of arming themselves to teeth to defend themselves from Russia, it means that they know something we don't, or they have some kind of secret pact with Russia like Ribbentrop-Molotov one that we will find out about after few decades if we are lucky to survive it. Germany has the most industrialized and robotized economy in Eurasia. It is just a matter of fucking months for them to build such an army that nobody can beat them. Just one decision: "ok, so instead of producing 5 mln cars on factory-line, we are going to produce 1 mln tanks". Germany has unlimited possibilities of rearming itself - much much much bigger than they had in 30s of XX century and it was still enough for them to take whole Europe and half Russia. That's why they are so cool. Poland has no such luxury of being calm because our industry is just a poor subcontractor of the German one and we are unable to rearm ourselves without German agreement

It's their interests m8, of course they're gonna make more money over thinking about Poland's sake.

>It's their interests m8, of course they're gonna make more money over thinking about Poland's sake.

Germany is still our insurance policy in a way. Trade between Poland and Germany is 120 bln dollar. Trade between Germany and Russia is 40 bln dollar. And it is convenient for Germany to have a buffer zone with 40 mln of people.

But this insurance policy is still inferior to power of the USA and its abilities.

OK, i have a question to you now. What would you do if you were Poland?

Arm myself to the teeth and spy on everyone.

>Arm myself to the teeth and spy on everyone.

Poland has much bigger intelligence abilities than it would be justified by its size already. No matter how much we would try to arm ourselves, we can't overcompete Russia and Germany, so it is pointless. Even if we had nuclear weapon, we could afford only few hundred warheads. Russia can afford losing few cities because it has the biggest territory on the planet Earth. We can't afford a suicide. Only USA can fully destroy Russia, nobody else can.

Try to be smarter.

>Germans put you in ovens
>blame the russians
I see US propaganda works well.
Out of all countries, Poland *especially* should have learnt by now to do its best to be able to defend itself as much as possible without bootlicking and being dependent on US.

See Greece's example: a bankrupt nation with an aggressive, overpowering neighbour, Turkey.
Yet they have a massive af airforce and aerial defences+land army completely disproportional to their population.
Why? Because the found out the hard way that *anyone* can backstab you, even your closest allies.

For fuck's sake, even with both Greece and Turkey Nato, have you seen Greece talking a passive stance and hoping daddy US will protect her?
While your neighbour is literally NATO's archenemy, and you're fine with bootlicking instead of growing independent military power?

Nations that only rely to foreign powers for their independence, they don't deserve tbqh.
Keep going and you're up for a rude awakening.

>See Greece's example: a bankrupt nation with an aggressive, overpowering neighbour, Turkey.

Poland could deal with Turkey. But Poland can't deal with Russia and/or Germany. They are 100lv monsters, Turkey is just 5lv.

Poland has much stronger military than Greece, and only a bit weaker than Turkey, but we could take them. Turks are brown people. They lack in intellect and strategic thinking, so we would fool them.

But how are we going to deal with Germans if they rearm themselves with using their unlimited industrial capability? : But how are we going to deal with Russians who are killing machines?

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You don't get it.

Greece vs Turkey is the same scope as Poland vs Germany, or Russia.
It's the mentality of self sufficiency that matters. You can't always say "I'm gonna lose eventually, better drop it altogether".
Many times, it's not about the eventual win, but win at a cost. When attrition starts hitting, you start hesitating to instigate or continue a war, even though you will probably end up victorious; it's not worth it anymore. Look at Vietnam for instance.
So your goal shouldn't be to overpower Russia or Germany, but make it so costly for them to take on you, that they won't do it unless it's a last resort.

It's what Greece is doing (10mil population vs 80mil Turkey) and it's working. It's what Vietam did and it worked. It's what Israel and it's working (vs the Arab coalition, not just Egypt or Iran independently).
Even US's utter lapdog, South Korea, are doing the same and amring to the teeth.

Otherwise, if you utterly depend on "allies" for defence, you're just a backroom deal away (Molotov-Ribbentrop style) from being stripped completely from military power, and lying defenceless for anyone to take on with little cost.

Why is this a hard concept?

>Greece vs Turkey is the same scope as Poland vs Germany, or Russia.

This is fucking dumb statement. Very very fucking dumb.

Should I fetch a 3rd grade maths textbook and teach you how fractions and ratios work?

You are a dumb person if you really believe in what you just told

>Look at Vietnam for instance.

Poland can't afford being genocided. We have low birth rate and we must secure every single Polish life. We can't afford full scale war.

Greece to Turkey has a 1:8 population disadvantage, while Poland to Germany has 1:2 disadvantage and Poland to Russia has 1:4 disadvantage.
Who's the dumb one fren?

>Poland can't afford being genocided.
And because it can't afford that, it decided to not develop a strong military and make it as easy as possible to get genocided the moment the "allies" flip sides.
Really smart thinking there.

>Greece to Turkey has a 1:8 population disadvantage, while Poland to Germany has 1:2 disadvantage and Poland to Russia has 1:4 disadvantage.
>Who's the dumb one fren?

Population comparison doesn't matter. What really matters in case of Germany is its unlimited industrial capacity to create the strongest army in Eurasia in less than 2 years, and in case of Russia its nuclear arsenal and culture of militarism that makes killing machines out of them.

Turkey is just fucking Turkey, we could take it 1 vs 1, and crush it. These idiots can't even manage a bunch of Kurdish peasants.

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To be completely honest with you, we hoped that the USA would destroy German and Russian nations. It was our true hope since 1990. And it kept us alive. But looks like the USA is not strong enough for this :(

>But looks like the USA is not strong enough for this :(

We need stronger chav to make it come true. Maybe China?

He is right. America was our only hope since 1990 that we would not need to worry about Germany and Russia no more. We truly believed America would be able to keep them all under boot or destroy them. Today we have no plan B.

USA just shitted all over itself and drowned in crap. Who could have predicted that it would happen so fast?! We hoped for the USA to be more long term phenomenon

I dunno man, it's almost as if Israel is somehow dependent on USA
Hmmmmm....

>America simply trusts Poland.
America simply wants to start a proxy war via Poland and once again dumb polacks are cheering for their own deaths for foreign interests

If it wanted to wage classic proxy war via us they would just sell us 30 y.o. rusty weapon instead like they do to Ukraine, ISIS or Syria. Why to supply us with best they have only to risk for the tech to be taken over by Russians?

Pls buy

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