20 years ago Poland joined NATO.
NATO members that officially supported our membership: USA and Germany
NATO members that officially opposed our membership: majority of NATO members, but France, Italy, Portugal, Spain and Greece opposed it the most
That's why it is such a mess today when Germany and the USA have a serious conflict. Poland feels as if it was forced to choose between mother and father. No matter what we choose, we are fucked.
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The US is an ocean away from Poland
Germany is right next to you
Considering that our economies are ever more intertwined our geostrategic interest will be similar too
hence, fuck the mutts
The problem is that Germany doesn't have such a big army like the USA, so if Russia attacked, Germany would be forced to give our territory to Russians in exchange of peace.
We never invaded you and tried to genocide your people
EU could hold off Russia even without the US
that's why we should ditch NATO for closer EU military cooperation
fuck going to Afghanistan for the US
this would only buy us some time
by the time the russians fire the first shot we'll be singing love songs with a guitar at americas balcony publicly begging them to take us back
Is this a joke?
the militaries of France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Poland, Greece and all the other small states are capable of standing up to Russia.
France has nuclear weapons.
The military expenditure of the EU is bigger than that of Russia.
The economy of the EU dwarfs that of Russia.
Talk about how the US supposedly defends Europe from Russia is nothing but excuse for continued occupation
If there's a united EU it would blow Russia the fuck out. That's why Russia is trying to dissolve it. They want to make Europe poor and miserable without a reason like they did in 39-91.
NUKES
>the militaries of France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Poland, Greece and all the other small states are capable of standing up to Russia
If you joined all militaries of all these countries into one army commanded by the same generals, and having the same foreign policy, then you might be partially true, but i doubt that European armies in its current shape could be even a remote match to Russia. But the problem is that Greece or France or Italy or whatever would never want to fight Russia if it attacked Poland. Germany maybe would want to do something as it felt directly endangered, but countries located behind your back would strongly oppose it
>If there's a united EU it would blow Russia the fuck out. That's why Russia is trying to dissolve it. They want to make Europe poor and miserable without a reason like they did in 39-91.
Russia strongly supports idea of "EU Army" though: youtube.com
1) your assumption that the EU countries would do nothing is baseless, and if that's your fear, why do you believe the US would be more inclined to go to war over Poland than the EU?
2) Poland could hold off Russia considerably, buying time for the EU countries to mobilize and deploy their troops. Russia isn't a steamroller, they have their own problems. they wouldn't win an offensive war of attrition agains the EU.
3) Why the fuck would Russia start such a big war?
cause he doesnt see it as a threat
loosening the transatlantic alliance is what he is after,
Russia says anything and supports anything. It's all a play. Obviously NATO is even a better option and personally I vote NATO candidates here but as we level down it's: Euros with own Nukes>NATO>EU Army>Small unintegrated European armies
You have to look how they operate and what they do is sow anti-European sentiments.
Germany should do one thing or another. It should bow down to the USA and act like its satellite state again to buy American presence in this part of the world. Or Germany should truly begin to create biggest army in Europe with nukes and shit, if Germany wants to say "fuck off" to the USA - then Poland could orientate itself exclusively on Germany, as we would feel safe in such configuration. But telling "fuck off" to the USA while keeping military spending on 1% of GDP turns on red alarm light in our heads, because it looks as if Germany had some secret agreement with Russia about spheres of influence in Europe, and we are taught by history that such deals are usually made at our expense.
not the user you replied to
germany doesnt really say "fuck off" to usa??
where do you get that idea from?
Just a question: do you really think that US would fight a nuclear war if you get invaded in a meme way like Ukraine?
>Just a question: do you really think that US would fight a nuclear war if you get invaded in a meme way like Ukraine?
Sure. Just like USA was always 100% ready to use Western Europe for needs of nuclear war. They would just launch nukes from our territory in direction of Russia.
You declined even Obama when he asked Germany to move forward the NATO memorandums about spending 2% on D.
Why not? They would win.
>germany doesnt really say "fuck off" to usa??
>where do you get that idea from?
Here in PL our geopolitics experts say in TV that German elites made a final decision, which is breaking transatlantic ties, because Germany's biggest trade partner is China, German business dreams about expanding itself to the East (including Russia of course) and generally Germans don't believe that USA would be able to maintain its empire in next years to come.
Hearing all of this wouldn't be a problem at all for us, if Germany had its own nukes and army at least comparable with Russia's. But when we hear it in current context, when German army exists only in theory, we are pretty much sure that Germany must have some kind of 'secret deal' with Russia that is surely very unpleasant for us.
you're paranoid
Germany in terms of military and territorial ambitions is absolutely harmless past 1945
all we can have an influence on is economics
I am not afraid of Germany annexing Poland, as a matter of fact most people here would want it - being second "Eastern Germany" pumped with 10x more money that we currently take from EU funds would be dream come true. I am afraid that Germany and Russia might have secret agreement about dividing Europe between themselves. Russia offers its military muscle to the deal, while Germany offers economical muscle. Then Poland could become no man's land as 90% of German investments would be going to Russia instead.
again, that's paranoia. even if Germany and Russia would want that the powers of the world wouldn't accept that and if necessary stop it by military force.
>I am afraid that Germany and Russia might have secret agreement about dividing Europe between themselves.
Good dystopian future plot, you should write a book, but it couldn't be more away from reality, the world is not that exciting.
what do you think if this video? do you agree?
What kind of "world power" can stop Germany and Russia from doing what they want to do? The USA could do this in period 1990-2008, but today it is already too weak.
>Good dystopian future plot, you should write a book, but it couldn't be more away from reality, the world is not that exciting.
It is the reality most probably, though