Would you take a ride on a tram in Ukraine?

>why would I?

Because you don't want to get a ride with a crazy Armenian driver in his 25-year-old cheap Ukrainian copy of Daewoo Lanos

I love this taxi ad in 4:31 in the tram

No I wouldn't. I'd rather take a ride on Moscow's tram but I don't have to since I don't go out

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Based Vityaz

I said Uber Januszczc

Why do you think Ukrainian Uber hires only people with brand new luxury cars for such a low price?

Why not? It looks just like the trams in Silesia.

seriously, what's wrong with Ukraine?

it can't be just the Russian invasion, revolution and war, everything seems so neglected it couldn't be just the last few years, it must have been like that for ages

Most Uber drivers in Ukraine don't even own the car they're driving. It's usually a VW Polo with advertising on it. It's actually a bit different from other countries, you can even call them like any other taxi company. As for getting into a 25-year old car with a crazy driver, it's impossible with the rating system

youtube.com/watch?v=hIgbSBGy6fQ

sure, it does

>don't even own the car they're driving.

So even if Uber owns them, I doubt they'd buy expensive cars to drive for ridiculously low prices, how would they make a profit?

Anyway, cars should be banned in cities. People should ride bikes, go on foot and use public transport, no any other means of transport should be allowed. That's the future.

>The Russian invasion, revolution and war
It's the result, not the cause

how shitty is the are around Moscow Paveletsky railway station?

Have to get off there at midnight by myself with luggage next monday. Just wondering what I should expect, gypsies churkas or what

why would Russians invade Ukraine just because it was poor?

The second one is Plac Miarki, isn't it?
I used to live nearby. That's tram 14 and it's usually full of patologia and smells like shit and wódka.

Extremely failed transition to capitalism.

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>usually full of patologia and smells like shit and wódka.

Homeless people in public transport happen everywhere, even in western Europe, that can't be compared to how neglected the vehicles and infrastructure in Ukraine are.

Sure, I do that every day to get to the uni. After a couple of years you stop thinking about the possibility of it falling apart with you on board and it gets pretty comfy.

2006-2008 and 2010-2014 worst years of my life

Never seen a hobo in Switzerland's trams/trains or even in Germany's.

But I was last there in 2008 and 2013 respectively, maybe things changed since then, I dunno.

Zurich, Munich, Kiel, Geneva, Zermatt, Dresden and Stuttgart to be more precise.

please answer ->

...

>Never seen a hobo in Switzerland's trams/trains or even in Germany's.

Were you in the winter there?

Also it depends on the system the country adopted, if the passengers have to enter the tram through the first door where the driver sits it obviously scares homeless people off, but if they can get on the tram/train through any door, they will.

>how would they make a profit?
Because labor is incredibly cheap, cheaper than in China

The trams themselves seem fine. T3s are notoriously reliable and a lot of them are still used here. However, those tracks need some serious fixing up.

>Were you in the winter there?

Strange that you ask this.
Yes, I arrived in December and left just as the winter was about to end in March or so.

In Germany/Switzerland you can get on most trains/trams (at least the ones I used) through any door from what I remember.

Trains do have the Führerschein (I believe is what it is called) to check your tickets though. But I only remember have tickets verified when traveling internationally.

I was also weirded out that was no border control whatsoever between Germany and Áustria, I just hopped into Áustria, no questions asked.

I was stopped in Switzerland tho and they asked me for my passport.

This place. Moscow is a safe city, especially in the center. Nothing should happen to you.

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Dismantling the soviet union was a mistake.
Fuck Brezhnev for not propping up his satellites when they needed it, fuck Gorbachev for Glasnost and Perestroika and fuck postsoviet oligarchs for selling their countries' industries for pennies on the dollar

We didn't
I mean, we sure illegally annexed Crimea and our men were (and are, probably) in the east but it's not an invasion.

Dunno, sorry, I've never been there. Should be ok, I mean at least safe. Churkas may be, but they're not aggressive. Gypsies, last time I've seen them in Moscow was a long time ago.
I'm pretty sure it's safer than any place in Brazil

but you need to pay high bribes to the officials to run a business there so it's not as easy as you think

you never wondered why there are almost no western investments in Ukraine? Almost no factories, very few western chains (they don't even have fucking IKEA), not many services? Because the cost of bribes and bueraucratic obstacles make it really hard to run any business there.

I've read an article where a German potential investor examined the possibility of setting up a factory in Ukraine and he retreated very fast when he faced the reality, he realized it would cost more to run a business in Ukraine than in Poland, despite much higher wages here, because of bureaucracy and bribes.

t. pianist

>Straw man 101
Has fuck all to do with my claim though. Why are Poles so butthurt to the point that a third world country in a warzone manages to make them flustered?

Sure, i take a ride on ukrainian tram pretty often.

based colour

>Fuck Gorbachev
He was literally the best politician in the ussr.
Who you should blame, on the other hand, is Yeltsin, he seized power and ruined the country.

This looks like the apocalypse already happened, and people have rebuilt society using whatever scraps were leftover of the old world, putting stuff together with a combination of guesswork and limited knowledge

In its own way, it actually looks pretty cosy

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I didn't really think it'd be "dangerous", just wanted to know if there are hobos around and things like that.

Lots of gypsies in Italy and they bothered me all the time I hate gypsies.

No idea if you guys have them in Moscow. I've never been there so I dunno.

I'm staying at a hotel near that station before I fly to Japan.

how is this a straw man? you said low wages are enough to make a high profit while I replied it's not exactly like that because you need a good business environment as well

>imagine being a buffer state for Russia

No worst fate.

Yea

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Fuck you. If there was any justice in this world, it would've been you stuck behind the Iron Curtain instead of us.

he's probably ukrainian lmao

It's the centre of Moscow, it should be clean and tidy there

No gypsies in Moscow. Suspiciously people, including churkas, probably could be seen on big train stations, but it's safe in general. Paveletsky is in center, and there are busy streets surrounding it, which are never sleeps.
Maybe just in case, it will be better to not enter empty side streets at night there.

>it would've been you stuck behind the Iron Curtain instead of us.

That actually made me sad.
Poor Czechia really shouldn't have suffered the fate it did.

Did you fucking read my post?
The soviet union had enough money to prop up east germany, czechoslovakia etc. but they didn't and then wondered why it all went to shit

maybe you were lucky, I've seen homeless people in Germany

>I was also weirded out that was no border control whatsoever between Germany and Áustria, I just hopped into Áustria, no questions asked.

That's like everywhere in the Schengen zone. That's what it is about.

>I was stopped in Switzerland tho and they asked me for my passport.

That's strange, Switzerland is in Schengen so there shouldn't be any border control, unless you seemed suspicious to some policeman around.

>Maybe just in case, it will be better to not enter empty side streets at night there.

My hotel is in an empty street.
But it's very close to the station, only 750 meters away according to google

Thank you.
I have 20 hours I can spend in Moscow.
Are there any places I should see other than Red Square/Kremlin?

(((Soviet ***Union***))) was a shithole. The RSFSR is the only republic that did not have its own Communist Party and Academy of Sciences. All minorities lived on Russian funding.

our public transport has the same colours

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>The soviet union had enough money to prop up east germany, czechoslovakia etc.

No, they didn't. The USSR was poor as fuck and it was actually one of the poorest commie states.

>The trams themselves seem fine.

Considering a lot of them are like 40 years old...

>The soviet union had enough money to prop up east germany, czechoslovakia
They didn't. The economy of the entire eastern block was fucked and unproductive, which is what happens when you employ literally everybody. Besides, everyone save for a few dedicated commies was looking forward to the end of communism. Everyone knew it was a sham.

>My hotel is in an empty street.
Wait till morning, lol.
It's okay. There are very busy area and cameras everywhere.

>All minorities lived on Russian funding.

I M P E R I Y A N A A B A R O T

>That's strange, Switzerland is in Schengen so there shouldn't be any border control, unless you seemed suspicious to some policeman around.

We were actually travelling by bus and they stopped the whole bus, not just me.

>maybe you were lucky, I've seen homeless people in Germany

Oh definitely me too, I just meant I didn't see them hanging around on trains. But for example Munich Hauptbahnhof has lots of turks and negros arond the station for some reason.

Also, a drunk Polish man threw a bottle at me after I refused giving him Money kek

>No, they didn't. The USSR was poor as fuck and it was actually one of the poorest commie states.
This. There were also 50 million Central Asians who did nothing while the white people worked. When the USSR collapsed, they returned to the Middle Ages.

1. Kharkiv has one of the best ex-ussr subway system so trams/trolleybuses exists only for city outskirts. I literally used tram only once in last year.

2. Kharkiv tram is the worst in Ukraine, like even for our standarts

Wellion Paveletskaya
Bakhrushina,21, Mocквa, Poccия

this is the hotel

Can't think of anything
There are lots of different museums/sights and beautiful parks but idk what you're interested in

Actually, it has more to do with you changing the subject to something which I frankly don't give a fuck about. I was simply responding to your assertion that Uber would have shitboxes with crazy drivers in Ukraine.

Services are cheap everywhere in Ukraine by western standards because of labor costs. That's why I made that statement. I have no intent discussing the business climate of Ukraine.

Their public debt was relatively low, even in 1989, compared to their gdp while east germany was close to bankruptcy with around 40 billion shekels external debt . They could've easily sent some machinery there to replace the failing tractors, which was the bane of the latter half of east germany's existence and could've prevented their massive spending on agricultural imports
Modern oligarchies like Ukraine, Armenia and Georgia aren't much better though. They're more corrupt now than they've ever been

Fuck, this street looks like you can meet some robber at night there. Don't walk there in the dark.

> you said low wages are enough to make a high profit
This is an obvious strawman however lmao

We also have some this, just that dirty and scrappy looking.
We actually have some strange mix old and new models from different years.

>Modern oligarchies like Ukraine, Armenia and Georgia aren't much better though
That's because while the government technically adopted communism, the common pleb is still homo sovieticus

nah
its just your perseption

joking me comrade?
I looked on google it seems like a calm street to me

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Sure, you ain't wrong. Public transport is pretty good in Poland and they're still working on repairing some tram tracks in Silesia, so they're fixing most of the bad stuff.

Kocham cie

Selling your industry for pennies on the dollar is damn retarded

I arrive at close to midnight.
I'll take the Aeroexpress from Domodedovo Airport.

I have to walk from the station to the hotel with a backpack and 2 spinner luggage.

Robbers are usually go to central calm streets to meet some late foreigners and drunksters at night.

What other choice was there?

>Services are cheap everywhere in Ukraine by western standards because of labor costs. That's why I made that statement. I have no intent discussing the business climate of Ukraine.

I don't think you're retarded so I'll just assume you're trolling if you don't see the connection between the business climate (and corruption) and costs the firm needs to make to run the business so not even low wages can compensate it therefore you can't just push this "services are cheap because labor costs are low". No, decent standards in Ukraine are as much or even more expensive than in the west, because of bureaucracy, low demand (because of low purchasing power) and corruption. If you want to get a piece of furniture from IKEA in Ukraine, you need to pay more than you would in Sweden, because someone needs to import this piece of furniture to Ukraine, pay a duty on the border, bribe the custom officer, bribe the local official etc. etc.

It's the same with cars, I don't know if you realize cars in Ukraine are much more expensive than in the EU. Ukrainians buy cars in Poland or Lithuania, don't register them on themselves (because they'd have to pay insane fees) but drive in Ukraine with EU register plates (and they have to cross the EU borders like every 3 months or so). They're called eвpoбляшники. That's why Uber needs to take such things into account when adjusting prices.

Seriously, you seem to know so little about Ukrainian reality.

Selling other assets and taking low interest loans to modernize it like Belarus did

This is true, but Soviet industries were extremely unproductive.

What is actually cheap in Ukraine? Aside from women of course.

do they have guns usually?
I can beat them if they try to rob me, just would rather not risk if they're often armed.

No. Usually with just knife, but they could be very aggressive churkas.

locally produced stuff like vegetables, poultry, fish, mostly basic food

chocolate and sweets are also cheap and good but I think it has something to do with the fact that the president is the owner of the country's biggest chocolate producer

of course by "cheap" I mean something that has relatively good quality for a low price. I could also say public transport is cheap because nominally it is but the quality you get for it is what you can see in the OP video so I'm not sure whether it's really cheap. Decent quality costs more in Ukraine than in Europe usually.

Being homeless it's illegal in some Cantons. They bring you in a center and help you get a job etc But in big cities you see them on the bus sometimes. But I'm not sure if they're homeless or just junkies

>other assets
Like what?
>loans
Who would loan money to countries like that and honestly, if somebody did, that money WOULD get stolen.

*in the Ukraine

Western countries literally lend money to 4th world shitholes with way worse records of corruption.

>like Belarus did

while Belarus is doing a little better than Ukraine, it's not really something we could call an example for anyone

and actually Belarus is doing better DESPITE having such a backward economic system and it's only because Lukashenko is good enough as a diplomat to get loans and discounts from Russia, otherwise Belarus would have gone bankrupt long time ago

*on Ukraine

Looks normal to me.

Probably they were just searching drugs. They often stop those buses

>you need to pay high bribes to the officials to run a business
It's not as much of a problem for big business as you think. Actually it's often an advantage over doing business in more regulated and less corrupt countries because you often end up paying less in operating costs overall because if less red tape.

>world shitholes with way worse records of corruption.

But these shitholes had no one except for the west to ask for support so the west could be sure they would be obedient

nowadays it's changing since there's China that loans money to everyone so these shitholes aren't keen on taking money from Europe anymore (especially that Europe usually demands liberalization and democratization of the political system while China doesn't)

Ukraine was always stuck between Europe and Russia so Europe couldn't just force any Ukrainian leader to get down on his knees and give up on his unlimited power (especially the economic one) because he'd rather choose Russia as a protector.

Same tram in Moscow

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