After the debate what is your opinion about this authors Jow Forums?

What is it about his post that irks you? Him being able to recognize the strengths on both sides of the spectrum, rather than just blindly devoting yourself to one them?

I was your run-of-the-mill marxist until recently but I have to say watching the debate has made my beliefs cramble. I decided to give this guy Peterson a go and reading/listening to other authors as well and I'm starting to change my mind.
Now I can see how I was blinded by a vitrolic postmodern ideology like marxism, I realize how total equality aka communism is a meme that always constitutes a slippery slope to tyrannies like the Soviet Union.

they should both have sex

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Low IQ

it being a complete lack of a standpoint.
it's pussying out of taking a stance. "hurrr both made some valid points". well Enrique, say you're the lord of the world. capitalism or marxism, which will it be? "hurrrr i don't know they both have some good points!!!"
P U S S Y S T A N C E

and that's not even mentioning the fact that everyone being truthful, including JP fanbois, clearly saw Zizek as the winner. JP admitted within the first five minutes that he couldn't bother reading either Zizek or Marx's materials. he's on video the day before saying he hadn't started preparing yet (even though the debate was scheduled a year ago), saying "one day should be enough" and that he'll watch some "Zizek YT videos". it's fucking embarrassing.
he instead held a literature review on the communist manifesto - a short pamphlet written for uneducated farmers - which he again admitted he hadn't even read since he was 18. meaning, he's been bithcing about marx and marxists for years but has never actually picked up a book.

is there a way to watch this for free yet?

>say you're the lord of the world. capitalism or marxism
feudalism

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youtube.com/watch?v=78BFFq_8XvM&t=88s
enjoy it

Peterson really should have read up on Marxism before facing an intellectual juggernaut like Zizek. He really looked like an idiot when it became clear than he didn't know what he was talking about. I'm hoping that of they have a second debate in the future, Peterson will have learned from his mistakes and properly prepared.

>people being this surprised when non-fascist anti-communists admit to having never read marx

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say what you want about fascists, but at least they are well-read

are you implying only fascists read commie literature?

He said the first time that he read the communist manifesto was when he was 18.

>it being a complete lack of a standpoint.
>it's pussying out of taking a stance. "hurrr both made some valid points". well Enrique, say you're the lord of the world. capitalism or marxism, which will it be? "hurrrr i don't know they both have some good points!!!"

A complete lack of standpoint is fine if they're both debating something you don't consider yourself to be knowledgeable in, there's no point blindly jumping into an allegiance if you dont know enough to form an opinion.

Doing this kind of "YOU HAVE TO PICK A SIDE. YOU'RE EITHER AGAINST US OR WITH US REEEEEE" behavior is exactly why the feminist and LGBT movements are failing to gain momentum, they're polarizing. If you force someone to be with you or against you, they're going to lean to be against you regardless of your viewpoints purely because you're forcing them to take a side. Nobody wants to be with someone who forces them to take a side. Nobody likes being forced.

Literally human nature 101.Fuck off with your bullshit.

>e-celebs

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The only people who actually read communist literature are Marxists and fascists who want to win internet arguments against Marxists.

literally you

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Weren't the Western Allies centrists?

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we should gas half of the jews, if the problem still persists then we should gas the other half

Based mexicentrist

We should gas only the bourgeois jews, along with the all of bourgeoisie.

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I wouldnt consider myself a centrist all, I'd actually say I'm probably inner left. But I understand at least that people are going to have a natural affinity against you, if you start forcing them to take positions, especially on subjects they don't know about.
See; Any religion, veganism, movements.

You can REEEEEE about centrists until Stalin comes back to life or whatever, just know all your doing is turning people away from your ideology because you're a pushy cunt about it.

>on subjects they don't know about
then educate yourself. it's your civil responsibility, u little twat

Can you be educated about everything?

You can't, but I can.

I guarantee that you, like absolutely every single person (myself included obviously), are uneducated about a plethora of topics for which you only have surface-level knowledge.

For example, I have technical expertise in HVAC equipment and in energy production, conversion and storage. Can you really confidently say that you have advanced knowledge on these topics which go significantly beyond that of the average university-educated person?

can you be educated on basic societal issues? like ideology, religion, veganism (to mention the things twat over there brought up). yeah, i think you can manage Japan

dumbass

massive cringe
why do people listen to these two?

Censtirst are actually most rational and smart people and are actually beyond a dogmatic left or dogmatic right and ignorant viewpoint of the left or right

Im a centrist and in proud of it and i think the centar of the viewpoint is most rational i can explain it if you want

>if you educate yourself you will eventually find the answer!!!
>all you need to solve the deepest and most profound questions of our human existance is to read more!!!

lmao @ you, have sex

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>People have to educate themselves about EVERYTHING, even things they don't care about or things that have no reason to pursue because I say they have to

The pushy, communist Swede strikes again. Find out next week how he's going to alienate everyone from his cause by way of totalitarianism. Kinda like how normal communism works.

>He still doesn't know that the bourgeoisie is literally the middle class
God damn I thought commies are "well read"

cringe

unless you're poor as shit (wish you're not since you have internet) you would get gassed too dumbfuck

That's not how Marx uses it though.

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i don't vote about HVAC equipment, Justin

i vote about basic societal issues. should we be a society that redistributes wealth or should we not? etc

your responsibility as a citizen is to educate yourself on basic matters and cast a meaningful vote in the right direction. that's why we have left versus right wing parties. it's the politican's job to make decisions on the smaller things requiring technical expertise. it's their job to educate themselves on those matters, to employ people to provide them with the expertise. but it's your job to select the politicians, and to select the general goals they should strive for.

Based Macedonian.

cringe

you're literally admitting to choosing to be ignorant and stupid, you do see that, right?

Why not guillotine them? Or perhaps the firing squad would be the best option? There really are multiple valid points of view in this debate.

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>but moooooom i don't want to be a responsible citizen!

maybe reading JP is a good first stage for you. go wash your penis.

such Low IQ

Nope the mexican only said to have sex to calm yourself down

For fuck sake you live in sweden and i can assure you the marxist path your country has taken will eventually fail you

I can explain it if you want because

For the sake of argument, let's just pretend that HVAC equipment is completely irrelevant. But what about energy production, conversion and storage? Surely you don't think that these topics are irrelevant? After all, politicians generally have very explicit positions and projets regarding these. And, as it happens, often these are not at all based on sound technical understanding of the subject matter. Therefore, I disagree with your assessment that it's simply up to the politicians to consult with the appropriate technical experts.

Also, you're wrong in claiming that your civic responsibilities are only during election time. Ideally, citizen engagement in the political process should be continuous. Other than elections, there are referendums, petitions, protests, public debates, strikes, books, etc.

nice self-diagnosis

BTFO!!!

Cringe, and hasn't left his parents basement pilled

Is JP popular outside of the anglosphere?

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The intention might've been for it to be a debate, but it rapidly turned into a discussion. I wish they had structured the first part into multiple segments rather than each debater deliver more of a speech. As for the discussion, I rather enjoyed the way it developed. I'm not a leftist in the slightest, however Zizek's incessant willingness to discuss and look at issues from every conceivable angle is a very refreshing quality.

As for who "won" and who "lost", I think they are completely meaningless questions that miss the point entirely.

>Also, you're wrong in claiming that your civic responsibilities are only during election time. Ideally, citizen engagement in the political process should be continuous. Other than elections, there are referendums, petitions, protests, public debates, strikes, books, etc.
right, or like... being engaged so as to be able to take a stance after having watched a debate

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Chaponiggers say that Zizek wrecked him but other than Peterstein not having read that much about marxism, it didnt feel like a debate desu. They went into capitalism and happiness and they both agreed at the end. that was it.

Tried watching, but that faggots lisp was unbearable. Just constant spitting and heavy breathing, just gave up, didn't even like Jordan Peterson either.

>Argentina
>Calling anyone a nigger

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define educated

>they both agreed at the end
no they didn't

peterson's final words was "i hope what we learned from this is that we all can be friends :-)"

zizek's was: "be left-wing, read marx, don't be PC."

>tfw tried reading capital today and couldn't get through more than 10 pages
I've heard hegel is easier. Maybe I should try there...

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educated enough to take a stance. apparently that's too bothersome for you toe suckers

I see your point, and it makes sense, but it also doesnt.

It's not a responsibility for anyone to be educated on societal matters, and forcing them to partake if they aren't, wont result in a net positive.

Take Australia for example. It's compulsory here to vote, you HAVE to get your name marked off at the ballot to not get a fine. The issue is that it often leads to people coming to the polling booths, and not partaking in voting as intended, as they've had their name marked off and can submit an unfilled ballot. This skews elections results as people pick parties at random to avoid fines or ruin their slip which automatically throws votes to the party in power.

This is bad.

Now lets take the US. Voting is not compulsory, yet voters tend to be far more informed and voters have to option to disregard either party and be a non-voter. This results in less skewed election results as people who do not identify or agree with either party are not forced to pick a side.

I'm not saying having informed people on societal matters is bad, it's a very good thing, but forcing people to do it results badly.

seething chapochud

yeah. either way it was more of a discussion than a debate.

Ehem... zurdito de mierda

Probably should have posted two sides that actually opposed each other since the Soviets were still collaborating with Nazi Germany in 1940

read wage labour and capital and the critique of gothaprogram, they are easier and better written

or just skip marxist faggotry and read stirner, renzo, bakunin and produhon

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Everyone was collaborating with Nazi Germany by those standards.

>It's not a responsibility for anyone to be educated on societal matters
i'm saying it is. see what i did there?

obligatory voting or not is a separate issue.

>hegel is easier
Dude, Hegel is anything but easy. Of all of the major authors in the history of western philosophy, Hegel is probably one of the most difficult to read.

>accusing me of seething while you grasp at straws
stay mad

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>being educated is being educated enough to take a stance
that doesn't explain what you mean by educated

Remind me which of the Western allies were signing economic agreements with Nazi Germany and gifting the Kriegsmarine submarine bases?

>produhon
The only redpilled socialist ever.

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>yeah. either way it was more of a discussion than a debate.
you guys are giving me a fucking stroke

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If Marx is hard, don't try to read Hegel. To get a good understanding of Marxism I would recommend reading Gotha.
fellow lefty
is kropotkin based or cringe?

Accurate desu

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Wow, that quote makes Hitler look like a hippie. Proudhon would definitely be a Jow Forumstard today.

True lol

Not thay guy but it really says a lot about how retarded right wingers are when someone mixing right wing talking points is assumed to be a leftist. It's as if you admitted that rightards are caricaturesque in their own thoughts.

>or just skip marxist faggotry and read stirner, renzo, bakunin and produhon
>dude just read a bunch of kiddie political fiction instead of scientific analysis

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>Why can't they just AGREE WITH ME!!1!

Maybe you should just chill dude. Your country is politically irrelevant anyway.

it was you guys who claimed to not be educated "enough". i'm saying educate yourselves until you can take a stance.
maybe you'll educate yourself too little by some objective measure anyways. maybe you'll be dumb as bricks even with education. but you need to educate yourself until you can take a stance. it's your responsibility. each according to the best of their ability.

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c'mon fren, das kapital isn't so difficult, basically marx says "capitalismus is founded in the reproduction of labour force, in other words capitalists overexploit low classes and modern societies put conditions to make this possible" if you want to know what's conditions to that you have to read more closely

literally have sex

Have sex, the revolution isn't coming. Move on and live a fulfilling life.

Do you have any prior experience with political, economical or philosophical literature? Because you are NOT expected to be able to grasp many works without having a lot of prior knowledge, not even if you're exceptionally gifted. Start with something like Plato or Aristotle, not with Marx and absolutely not Hegel.

still have a responsibility
you then, even more so. you elect a leader who can nuke the world.

The revolution has to happen for me to get my commie mommy gf.

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What's up with all the Swedes with obvious autism around here?

unlike you, my "fulfilling life" isn't playing vidya in my boxers eating poptarts

(it's fine to occasionally relax and be unproductive, but not to lead an entire life by such a standard)

>I say it is, therefor it is

Again with the forcing people. I just gave you an example why making things compulsory and forcing people to make decisions is inherently a bad thing that comes with bad, unintended results.

Technically it is a responsibility for citizens to have children and to progress society. People are waiting long and longer to have children nowadays, do you force people to have children? Do you force people to do something that while, is in the grand scheme is a good thing for your society, could easily backfire and result in unforeseen consequences simply because people don't like being forced.

This is why leaders and policy makers dont enact these decisions in places that already have incredibly low birth rates, and why you'll never be a leader or policy maker.

Sureee, that's why you're trying to have an argument in a Chinese image board? Cringe.