What is masculinity exactly?

What is masculinity exactly?

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Not being a sissy

Honor, basically. Alot of people will tell you its about violence or power or whatever, but thats not true. Honor is the root of all manliness. Those who claim to be masculine while violating honor principals such as equality, respect, and honestly are not men, but man-babbies.

Act with Honor, and Honor will guide you.

Possessing the qualities of a man.
In essence, the penis is the ultimate symbol of masculinity.

Masculinity is a stupid concept. Masculin physical traits are obvious height, broad shoulders etc but masculin personality traits are just being grown up. The same shit that would apply to men would apply to women.

spot the basedboy

That's just retarded. The point about masculinity and femininity isn't that only men are masculine and only women are feminine it is that in men the masculine side is stronger and in women the feminine is stronger. You are right that growing up is accepting both sides but there are definitely general differences between the genders with them.

Aggressive is the wrong word. I think you mean assertive.


a social construct
a masculine man today would have been considered a dumb brute 130 years ago in victorian age britain. go back even further to the late middle ages, still in britain, and that same man would be considered a well-groomed pussy
the concept of masculinity varies immensely, just like the cocks that
suck on the reg

You have to be kidding to think that the traits of masculinity in Antiquity are any different than masculinity today.

before the republic romans thought pants were for faggots

>masculinity can be summed up by the clothing you wear
Is this bait?

yeah because liking pants is a character trait on the same level as having ambition and being decisive?

He's a Marxist; you can tell by the stupidity

here's a more concrete example for you historical illiterates
say it with me,
masculinity is a social construct


>won't actually refute his opposition
>tells people to read something he didn't even write

this thread is over

Of course it is a social construct humans are social creatures. Social constructs have a biological and evolutionary basis though just like everything else about humans. This whole "social construct" argument as a means of attempting to weaken a concept is ridiculous to me it makes no sense at all.

A combination of certain looks and behavior.

nice word jumble. what did you even say?

some people in this thread are confusing "attractiveness" with "masculinity." women have always found tall, broad-shouldered, rugged men attractive, unless they're mental cases like the ones who hang out on tumblr and peg their boyfriends
the concept of masculinity, however, is completely dependent on culture and time

I wrote out a whole paragraph before I realised I was wrong, but most people on the internet (at least from what I always read) are wrong about what being masculine is. I believe that there are mature traits which are true for both sexes which are attractive on both sexes, but for some reason are always viewed as masculine traits. For some reason honour and confidence is considered a masculine trait when these things are good for both sexes. What I find funny is that people consider being aggressive a masculine trait when really that makes you some degenerate cunt. Being aggressive at the right time like sticking up for yourself is a good thing, but that is also a trait which is good for both sexes. There are two traits which I can think of top of my head which I would consider universal masculine, which are stoicism and taking charge in relationship (this does not mean being controlling dickhead). There are probably more and this is clearly my opinions on what masculinity is which is of course up for debate. Don't judge my gramma plz, I am open for discussion.

>the concept of masculinity, however, is completely dependent on culture and time
Yes and human culture does not exist in a vacuum it forms as a consequence of our biology. You really think anything in your life is totally separable from your biology? The idea that because something is constructed socially means it doesn't matter is totally stupid then virtually nothing humans care about really matters you are just preaching a nihilistic worldview if you go down that path.

>I believe that there are mature traits which are true for both sexes which are attractive on both sexes
Does that make it not masculine though? In my opinion a man who doesn't possess any feminine traits isn't really mature and the same is true for a women with no masculine traits. Something like honor and confidence can be associated with the masculine but still necessary to some degree in both men and women.

are you negating that the concept of masculinity changes depending on culture?

The idea of honour is a corny in todays society anyway. For me at least. There are loyal people and unloyal people. and I would consider loyalty a trait which is attractive trait for both sexes equally. For me to answer your other question I have to ask what traits do you consider feminine? inb4 "grooming yourself".

Yes and no. How it manifests changes depending on culture but there is a core to it that could be defined that doesn't really change. Something like the idea that, "No real man wears makeup" could change based on culture but honestly that isn't really what masculinity is.

This was ment for you

I think some feminine traits are compassion, serenity, affective.

what do you believe that core is?

Simply height

In Tolkien-esque fantasy the most masculine men are Dwarves

I think the anons in the thread summed it up well. It is the traits like being decisive and strong that are part of the core.

Compassion 100% false. Women love men who are compassionate so that would fall in a trait which is good for both sexes. Don't really know what you mean by serenity? Going by dictionary "The state of being calm, peaceful, and untroubled." this is also a trait which I would consider universal. Women hate men who are tryhards and have something to prove. Also have no idea what you mean by affective.

That doesn't make it not feminine though. Like I said everyone is both masculine and feminine the masculine side is stronger in men and the feminine in women. It isn't all or none. By affective I meant emotional but I didn't want emotional to sound like they aren't in control of their emotions.

If it's not an expression of sex induced morphology, it's not [true] gender.

You idiots conflate 'blue is for boys' with shit like 'higher rates of aggression directly linked to higher amounts of testosterone', and then want to abolish everything from childrens toys to parent roles.

You are stupid beyond belief and will break our entire civilization if not stopped.
But that's what you want, isn't it, you fucking snakes

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why do you assume so much?

I will also say there are exceptions some men may be more feminine than women and vice versa but they are not the norm.

But why would you consider a trait which is good for both sexes a sex exclusive trait? Thats why in my original post I considered the idea of masculinity and femininity a bit stupid untill stoicism poped in my head. And being emotional I would consider a trait which is also good for both sexes as long as men don't show signs of insecuriy. Which is why I said that stoicism is a masculine trait. Women love seeing emotions but they are down right repulsed by insecurity where as the same is not true for men.

>But why would you consider a trait which is good for both sexes a sex exclusive trait?
I'm not. You seem to be ignoring me when I say that men and women possess both masculine traits and feminine traits and it is universal. You seem to believe being masculine makes someone male and being feminine makes them female. I am looking at it in the reverse masculinity is all the traits that a majority of men possess most strongly and femininity all the traits that a majority of women possess most strongly. I'm trying to focus on the positive because we are talking about mature people.

>decisive and strong
are these traits exclusive to men though? would a woman with these traits be considered "masculine?" i don't believe so.

>would a woman with these traits be considered "masculine?"
Probably at least in part. It isn't an exclusive thing they don't contradict eachother. A feminine trait is not the opposite of decisive and strong for instance femininity is not being indecisive and weak.

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so if a trait can't be exclusive to one gender, what makes it masculine or feminine?

>I say that men and women possess both masculine traits and feminine traits and it is universal
Feels like you are contradicting yourself in this once sentence. I feel like you are approaching this with the traditional idea of masculinity vs femininity which I just believe is a social construct. When I think of masculine traits I think of traits which are fundamental to the male sex and would be viewed as masculine across any culture.

I think the problem is you are viewing it like a spectrum with masculinity at one end and femininity at the other. I think it is more like two categories of traits with different levels expression. What defines them is based around gender ultimately so what traits do most men possess more strongly and what do women possess more strongly. It isn't meant to be exclusive to the gender though it is just like a generalization of the mental characteristics of both genders.

>When I think of masculine traits I think of traits which are fundamental to the male sex and would be viewed as masculine across any culture.
There really aren't mental traits exclusive to one sex, if you go by that definition you will never be able to define masculinity or you will conflate gender with behavior and attitude.

Thats why its stupid as I initially said. But If we are looking from a cultural western stand point. The traditional ideas of masculinity have changed apart from the 2 traits that I mentioned.

Why is that stupid though? I am not saying there can't be flaws in traditional ideas around masculinity and femininity.

Because being compassionate and emotional is normal human behaviour so to consider it feminine is stupid.

Does being feminine make it inhuman?

Why would you consider them feminine lol?

Look human beings are going to notice patterns in behavior amongst men and women and are going to associate those patterns with some kind of concept. Either that concept is masculinity and femininity or it is gender. In my opinion viewing it as masculinity and femininity is much healthier because you do not have to feel like less of a man for having feminine traits. If the patterns are associated directly with gender you will feel like you have to hide these parts of yourself to be a man.

Traits defined as masculine. The definition varies from person to person.

So don't consider them masculine or feminine. Thats my whole point initially.

>social construct

Duh. But keep in mind every culture generally holds the same masculine ideals.

>is not a woman
>doesn't try to be female

There you go.

You can't really do that though people will always find patterns and associate them with some concept. Like I said we either separate the behaviors from gender or it will directly be associated with gender.

So teach them to not group things and I agree with separating behaviours from genders. I feel like its easier to group mannerism but group traits is not a good idea.

It’s why we’re here today son.

Look at this picture and you'll know the answer

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>So teach them to not group things
That goes against ordinary human reasoning and you will do it without even thinking. It's better to refine the concepts in a way that doesn't poison your mind.

So what is the point of grouping masculine and feminine traits when they differ across cultures? What is masculine now is way different then what was masculine 40years ago.

I already said there is a core to it that is universal. I have not studied these differences across cultures to tell you what that core is but I can assure you there is a core that genuinely exists because of the biological basis for everything humans do.

Masculinity are personality aspects that are ideal for men to have or that men usually have while it is not very usual for women to have. Femininity would be personality aspects that are ideal for women to have or personality traits women usually have but men do not.

Masculine means male-like. Having the traits of a male (traits men usually have but women don’t.)
Feminine means female-like.