Free Speech is irrelevant

Sounds like a real faggot. I wouldn't bother associating with him.

Free speech is not under attack. Speech, historically, can be dangerous. White privilege is a statistical fact. These are all realities of the world. Adjust your worldview and proceed accordingly.

>Speech, historically, can be dangerous
And the inability to speak historically has been even more dangerous.

I knew my future husband lurked /adv.

He wants to mold you into his bottom bitch in a walk in closet.
He doesnt deserve friends like you or your time. Go find a friend to enjoy living with.

>dangerous
Nigga freedom is always dangerous. That's the point.

>Pinochet is my idol

That's what I read.

>Facts

As if that exists anyways.

> White privilege is a fact

It's a very disfunctional basis. Nazis blamed jews for their problems too, fucking facists.

He's a leftist. Their ideology is entirely dependent on suppressing dissent, because you break it by simply disagreeing with it. The moment they have to employ force equality is out the window. Why does it surprise you he's trying to subvert every single thing he can?
In any case you can try hurting him. Not physically of course, just aggressively counterargue. Their weak ratiocinations can't stand up to too much of it. They become distressed or enraged quickly, and this will make them less likely to want to engage in such discussion in the future. If you think the solution to avoiding family splitting at the border is to deport them all, say that, and let it make him uncomfortable. If you think killing criminals is a net social gain, tell him so, and let him whine and pout and relate anecdotes. Let him writhe, like a worm on a hook. Maybe he'll stop asking you to fish.

It's not white people's fault brown people are statistically worse than them, nor their responsibility to bridge that gap. Those who are better deserve to be treated better. These are also realities of the world. Adjust your worldview and proceed accordingly.

>It's not white people's fault brown people are statistically worse than them
By introducing policies and committing actions against them, yeah they are, kiddo.

>nor their responsibility to bridge that gap
A more equal society tends to be a net benefit for everyone involved. So while responsibility is a spook, it'd be a rational action to bridge the gap.

>By introducing policies and committing actions against them, yeah they are, kiddo.
You have no proof that policies explain the widespread disparity. There are also differences in IQ between whites and blacks even if you want to pretend they don't matter they do matter and while there is also no proof that IQ is the sole cause ignoring it is just denying evidence so you can feel a false sense of security. Truth is everybody is fucking oppressed because people can be really brutal to each other but if all you do is whine about it and complain that strangers don't give you free gibs you are a worthless person. It's not bad to want help from people but all you people ask for is vain crap like fame, money, power, privilege, etc.

It's very interesting what you state. I'm another user. I've been thinking why the statemente about whites having to be doormats isn't functional.

I've checked my privilege since I'm not from United States. This affirmation abot gruops is based in a thesis that suposse information is relied on every generation without entrophy.

Calling out a person because of his ancestors means that his heritage have a full conection with its past. And this is just false because there's no human that can process so much quantity of information.

I do agree it's neccessary to make the gap a little one. It can't dissapear though, the elite is neccessary too. This must bo done not as expenses of taking all the power from the privileged. This will lead in another dinamic of oppression in wich the people that were oppressed will take the lead, and that's because even if they had oppression in their heritage, this moments can't be proccessed the same as their ancestors. It's not in their flesh the same way.

A latin american intelectual did an analysis in this analising nazi history and had the conclusion that sometimes is better to forget and to evolve thinking in positive.

I don't speak english fluently.

>You have no proof that policies explain the widespread disparity.
That's where you're wrong friend. There is still some room left to debate just HOW bad the policies affect the situation; but surely one of the most simple ways to find out would be adjusting that shit?

>Truth is everybody is fucking oppressed
Not on a systematic level. Just educate yourself about the topic before you go on and spreed memes.

>It's not bad to want help from people but all you people ask for is vain crap like fame, money, power, privilege, etc.
And here I almost took your post serious. My bad.

>I do agree it's neccessary to make the gap a little one. It can't dissapear though, the elite is neccessary too.
In an ideal system they would be in their role organically. Even just 40-50 years ago universities were meant to close the gap and it worked not too bad but then it mostly evolved to the rich buying their way into better education, which in turn made it even easier for their kids, which in turn shitted on the whole idea of merit.

>Calling out a person because of his ancestors means that his heritage have a full conection with its past.
In scientific literature white privilege is used on groups either way. And generally people seem fail to get how it usually means "Yeah, you might have issues too but if you weren't white, you'd also have to deal with X, Y, Z." and not some "lol ur white, your life is perfect"

>This must bo done not as expenses of taking all the power from the privileged.
How would that even work? Let's step away from brown people and look at what happened when women joined the work force. Previously powerless people gained power, which in turn lowered the relative power of men generally, while still creating a net benefit for everyone. Or take something more chill like media representation, more blockbusters with non white leads, is going to lead to fewer blockbusters with white leads, since people only see some many movies a year.

>but surely one of the most simple ways to find out would be adjusting that shit?
And what policy is that exactly? Free speech? If you think free speech oppresses blacks you are seriously retarded.

>Just educate yourself about the topic before you go on and spreed memes.
You keep saying educate yourself without providing any examples. Do you think using the word educate makes you sound smart?

>And here I almost took your post serious. My bad.
Did I hurt your feelings?

pt2

>is better to forget and to evolve thinking in positive
Generally yes, but positive thoughts alone aren't enough to improve a situation. And to know what you need to improve, you need to analyse it. Of course there is always a danger that oppressed people will turn into oppressors (Israel is probably the most obvious example) but in context of first world countries it's not a scenario worth considering any time soon.

>By introducing policies
Oh yes, I agree. Fuck "public policy". Especially those that demand quotas. Not that white people have any of those, but still. Volutary association or bust.
>and committing actions against them, yeah they are, kiddo.
The violent actions? Sure. Kill all aggressors full stop. By putting a "no niggers" sign on the door? Nah fuck off.

>You keep saying educate yourself without providing any examples.
Because of shit like the sentence before.
>And what policy is that exactly?
If you truly have no idea how certain policies or practices affect certain groups totally disproportionally, you just shouldn't speak about the topic before doing SOME kind of research. At the very best, it shows how lazy you are, making any kind of conversation pointless. Beyond that, it's dubious to hold strong opinions about something you clearly don't give a shit about. It's like discussing football with someone who thinks the game is played with two balls.

>Did I hurt your feelings?
I fucking wish I had still some left to hurt, my man.

>You have no proof that policies explain the widespread disparity.
We have an overwhelming amount of proof. Post-Civil War America is a literal goldmine of proof. Jim Crowe, segregation, indentured servitude, generational wealth. The post Civil War American socioeconomic structure was specifically created to make sure that blacks never gained financial or economic dominance over whites. Honestly, do you believe that ghettos exist just by coincidence? Seriously, dude. Read a book sometime. "Battle Cry of Freedom" is an amazing history book that covers both pre and post Civil War American economy thoroughly. I've read it twice. Educate yourself.

>There are also differences in IQ between whites and blacks
You have no clue of what you speak. Firstly, IQ tests were never designed to measure general intelligence. They were first created as political justification for sterilizing the developmentally disabled and handicapped. Modern science acknowledges IQ tests as deeply flawed and too widely influenced by socioeconomic factors to be accurate. A recent study performed found that a minimum of 4 separate tests were required to accurately measure general human intelligence. Instead of using the internet to shit post you should do some research and know what the fuck you're talking about.

Good job managing to sound even more childish than the dude before you.

Really user that is how you respond? That is such a childish response. You are the one making a claim that people need to change their opinions/behaviors and you can't come up with an example instead you just repeat "google it." You are intellectually lazy.

Good job sounding like more of a smug asshole than, well anyone.

>You are the one making a claim that people need to change their opinions/behaviors
Hey, recognising the need for something doesn't mean doing all the work yourself, just like being able to tell whether some food tastes shitty, doesn't require you to be a master chef.

And yeah, what can I say, I am not passionate enough about the topic to introduce people who never deal with it before. Calling them out on their shit, does just fine for me.

Thanks!

>We have an overwhelming amount of proof.
What you just described is not proof that those are the sole cause of disparity between blacks and whites. You described a contributing factor but that does not prove that some kind of reparations or a policy to "make up" for all of the past oppression will solve CURRENT disparities. You didn't educate me on anything you only described something I already knew.

>You have no clue of what you speak. Firstly, IQ tests were never designed to measure general intelligence.
That's just false. IQ tests measure intelligence extremely well. Also what 4 tests are you talking about? EQ? EQ is a fucking meme and has very little scientific basis.

>childish
Is this the lefty "cuck"?

No because I called a lefty childish.

More neutral. Normalfaggots use it.

>IQ tests measure intelligence extremely well.
Ahahahaha.

Nigga, we don't even have an agreed definition of what intelligence is.

Well user you convinced me with your no evidence.

Don't forget to share and subscribe.

It doesn't really matter because IQ can predict life successes with a pretty high degree of accuracy although it is not even close to 100% but nothing is. That's what really matters is the fact that IQ not intelligence but IQ specifically predicts life success in a similar way to the socioeconomic issues like you described except I believe IQ is even higher. That doesn't mean IQ alone accounts for the disparities though but dismissing IQ is just stupid. Also you have no proof of it being racist besides the fact it would inconvenience you if it wasn't racist. In fact it is the only reason anyone even calls it racist it is a seriously neutral test.

Thanks for answering. I've been watching too much alt-right media and I wanted to give it a to the american left. I have a biad I'm not willing to change about everything lefty because commies fucked up my families life and land - and we where poor.

Let's continue.

Your decription on how rich people got rich networking is an example of an organic elite. Higher ups don't make themselves out of nowhere, they need a social group in which their values can be nurtured to grow and flow into all society. American left is in its process of transforming in a new elite. Companies with increidble influence over the world such as Google have a left Gramsci leaning. An ideal society would have the same elite fo rever since there would not be entroph to cause internal changes in the social system. Left is organically becoming and hegemonic power.

You have a point. But the question is that even scientific literature would imply bias in the person that is making the observations. Derrida says that everyone have something of theirselves in out lenguague. Thus, it's impossible to be unbiased even if we are strict. The problem is that even if we are scientific the idea of white becomes a way of thinking that shows its own power dinamics to microagressions.

Another reason people is dumb using white privilege its because every theory that goes maintream loses quality in its application. Most people aren't literate and even them have their faults. It's impossible to be fair. That why I think elites and group should never give up all their power. A personal reason I don't pair with feminisms, I don't want to re create my masculinity using only feminist standarts; so it'll lead to a excess of power of a foreing party over me.

I call it racist because the test is white. Checkmate atheists.

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>What you just described is not proof that those are the sole cause of disparity between blacks and whites.
There is no "sole" cause, you moron. There are an insanely vast amount of causes. The most measurably and scientifically impactful causes are socioeconomic.

>that does not prove that some kind of reparations or a policy to "make up" for all of the past oppression will solve CURRENT disparities
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about reparations. All I said is that we have statistical proof that historical policies have caused the widespread economic disparity between white and blacks. Its all fairly simple. Similar systems of economic disparity exist in literally dozens of other countries. If you want to educate yourself on the specifics then I suggest you read "Battle Cry of Freedom". It explains from beginning to ends how the Civil War and its subsequent economic policies created the socioeconomic landscape we live in today.

>IQ tests measure intelligence extremely well
Not according to scientists and neurologists.

>It doesn't really matter because IQ can predict life successes
Educated people have higher IQ's. People who attend higher education tend to be in higher financial brackets. People in higher financial brackets tend to be more economically successful. Economic success has very little to do with objective intelligence, user.

The third problem can be attacked thourh a negotiation of safe spaces for groups in decreasing power. Most of the new generation. For example, whites, doesn't have real backup and don't have the same power as their ancestors. History takes its time to understand this and that's why where using the same fucking Simone de Beauvoir.

I think this would work because even if social gruops have things in common every social aspect is micro foundations, right? If in practice white power is decreasing, we should at least find options for these gruops to create new forms of power that can be acceptable in the new social moral system.

>All I said is that we have statistical proof that historical policies have caused the widespread economic disparity between white and blacks
Okay? I never disputed that? Why even argue then? I thought the whole point is that we need to undo the damage of those policies? That's where I am skeptical because I am not convinced black people are really experiencing disparity because of those past policies even as the main factor. You can say it but I do not believe it.

>Not according to scientists and neurologists.
lol Well first of all it doesn't matter if it measures intelligence what matters is that IQ itself is significant. Intelligence is just an idea that doesn't have any agreed method to measure it but IQ is specific and more meaningful.

The disparities between races are after accounting for that though user. The thing is whites aren't at the top it is actually ashkenazi jews.

I think one problem of fucking americans is that race is their most important variable for analysis. Maybe that's because its country isn't race diversity based as mine. We colonies must step forward and stop taking EEUU in consideration as a model for everything.

You know that every communist nation used IQ too, right? It still worked without economic classes.
It's also why women were so mistreated in Soviet Russian education, because they didn't use a variant which accounted for male superiority in spatial awareness. The Chinese did and it helped them greatly.

Correlation =/= causation.

>dismissing IQ is just stupid
No one is doing that, it's just important not to misconstruct it as some "intelligence" meme, when it shows only a very limited part of human intellect. Beyond all that there are tons of factors affecting IQ beyond race, making the obsession with it just silly.

>Your decription on how rich people got rich networking is an example of an organic elite.
Is it truly organic if there are people who might be able to play along ability-wise but will have a very hard time joining due being born in an environment that limits their networking opportunities? Obviously some will find a way up they play with weaker cards from the start, no matter the ability. Same with less able rich people, who need to commit quite a few serious mistakes to lose their position.

Then again, I can see how creating such a system can count too. If you managed to pull your average ass son into the elite, you are clearly doing a lot right.

>even scientific literature would imply bias in the person that is making the observations
Yeah, definitely. Hence the entire topic is such a fucking can of worms on every level and even when you have some very clear data, which is rare enough, there are countless ways to interpret it in however way you chose, before we even touch on the data you choose to focus your research on.

>because every theory that goes maintream loses quality in its application. Most people aren't literate and even them have their faults. It's impossible to be fair.
Pretty good point too. Don't think I have anything to add to it.

pt2
>I don't want to re create my masculinity using only feminist standarts; so it'll lead to a excess of power of a foreing party over me.
Makes sense too. Although the approach seems a bit too driven by emotions (which again, is perfectly human). Instead of focusing on the "foreign party aspect", you could focus on "new idea of masculinity aspect" and consider it for yourself. If the stuff and the arguments for the stuff sounds right, why not rolling with it? If it doesn't, screw it.

>we should at least find options for these gruops to create new forms of power that can be acceptable in the new social moral system.
Well, ideally moving away from grouping people by that shit in the first place, which will take a while of course. Although a lot of society is already there either way. White academics tend to feel closer to black academics instead of white working class and vice versa. Plus of course, capitalism adds more layers to it, where we define ourselves more based on the stuff we consume a la Applel - Lagdroid users.

nigaa

>Correlation =/= causation.
That's exactly the argument I am making user. I think you misinterpret what I am saying as dismissing all socioeconomic factors when I am not. I am saying that there are likely just as powerful or at least significant enough genetic factors at play too. It's important to recognize that because otherwise you are not really solving the problem you are just guessing at it.

>eyond all that there are tons of factors affecting IQ beyond race
Yep. That doesn't mean there can't be a genetic component explaining disparities. This isn't just true about race, genes have a much larger effect on everyone than people want to admit to themselves.

>why women were so mistreated in Soviet Russian education
Huh? Despite the patriarchy, they still were treated WAY better than most women in the West around that time. Soviet Education was more discriminatory against the Juice.

>That doesn't mean there can't be a genetic component explaining disparities. This isn't just true about race, genes have a much larger effect on everyone than people want to admit to themselves.
Sure, just so far we do lack the means to make a reasonable estimate of how big it really is and how malleable it is. Hence while it makes sense to keep the IQ factor in mind, it sounds like a much better idea to first focus on dealing with stuff, we know we can change for sure.

Man. I don't know why, but thank you. I've been an addict to the internet and is very fun to have a good conversation in these topics with someone that doesn't have their head full of worms.

I would add two things. Hope we aren't missing each other because my post had two parts, the other one you just replied.

Anyway. Organic doesn't mean just, nor moral. These two categories are fabrications of personal belief. Though It shouldn't make ourselves feel incapable of judgement. We aren't perfect.

A true definition of organic has to do with its tendecy to decline. Every social construct tends to destroy itselft at the same times its evolving. Like a eroding-thingy, maybe? Just look at liberalism. It was the better moral code for the burger to break the chains of the landlords and create a society of productivity - that had its problems, too.

About the problem of scientific research I have a solutions - not perfect of course. Even with our limitations, our technique has proven useful. For example: women liberation via contraception. Even if our knoledgemente isn't perfect, we should not hop into the train reason is shit. Doesn't sound right, because implies there's no a chance to fall back in the that science has at least fight a little so over time. Technique is the true proof of the power of science. In example: transexualism. It wouldn't be possible without knowledge of know how body mechanism. I think gender is a conection between sexual and cultural. Our culture doesn't need industrial breed as befored and that's why women meaning has been spread and doesn't necessarilly ask you to give birth. Heck, even i survived dengue, zika and chikunguña thanks to the development of medical sciences.

Fair enough but another thing to note is that it can be seriously hard to "unlearn" learned behaviors in adulthood. So even having the causes be environmental doesn't mean it can be solved with pretty ideas. For instance redistributing wealth might sound like it solves so many of the problems but it really is unlikely that it would. I don't see how that would solve crime problems for instance. Not that you mentioned it as a solution but the point is just because something is environmental doesn't make it any easier to undo than changing a person's genetics.

Okay. Two things here.

What bothers me of feminism is that is ever about women. This may sound shitty but lemme explain. I was thinking on creating a cismale space - gay included. It didn't focused in trans people because i can't comprehend the experience of transition and I can't help them yet.

Then I read an article on vice that said that male space should be only for their deconstruction in feminist terms. And even when recognices the fact men have gender problems such as suicide rate and tendency for violence because of a sociaty that still needs the fuction of violencia in which men have organized in their lives for the past evolution, I get very angry that these themes were brushed aside and their conclusion is that men should liste. In The other sex Simone says men uses itself as a way to measure everything, but everytime I have a disscussion with feminist they make assumptions that male problems haven't to do with gender. They say its pollitical or whatever. And even then they claim they're oversexualized when it our gender that isn't sexualized enough because of our disposability in reproduction process.

In another regard. Its indeed interesting that people think this cultural revolution isn't capitalist at all when the only thing is doing is creating new fucking markets. nothing more to add in here.

I 've even dated women that don't know how a fucking penis works.

>free speech is harmful

Sounds like something a dirty commie would say.

Yeah, I know the feel. Specially lately it's been a pain to have any kind of conversation about even mildly controversial subjects without it involving it a shitfest.

>It didn't focused in trans people because i can't comprehend the experience of transition and I can't help them yet.
Well, that's where the clusterfuck starts, feminism has a fuckloads of branches going beyond the waves. Some feminist are inclusive towards trans people, others hate on them as much as the most radical right winger. Some recognise the need to include men, others are pretty dismissive towards them. Even in the mainstream press, I read examples of almost all of the branches and wouldn't know what the prevalent is.

Hell, it's the same when it comes to female centric issues. There are still feminists who are completely against prostitution, others who tolerate it, and others who are positive towards sex work. And each can call themselves feminist. And if we add intersectionality into the whole mess, the term might become clearer for people who are interested but sounds like gibberish for almost everyone else.

>another thing to note is that it can be seriously hard to "unlearn" learned behaviors in adulthood.
Sounds like an understatement. Though if there is an infrastructure to assist the person, and a cultural basis that supports personal growth and change (say a justice system that focuses on reintegrating the person into society instead of punishment), it should be doable, to a point. And our brains are pretty plastic, just some need a different approach.

>For instance redistributing wealth might sound like it solves so many of the problems but it really is unlikely that it would.
The term is pretty vague. I'd say to a point it will obviously be beneficial (even most neoliberals tend to agree) but over a certain point it's bound to cause stagnation. Though of course, trying to decide where the point lies is ... let's just say tricky.

pt2

Thanks for the convo guys, time for me to stop procrastinating, take care!

>say a justice system that focuses on reintegrating the person into society instead of punishment
I'm not sure how effective that would really be honestly.

> I'd say to a point it will obviously be beneficial
Jobs would probably be better but with AI taking over that may just be impossible. That's a whole other beast though. I'm really not sure what it will mean for society.

Same. Love ya.

I was supposed to not use Jow Forums today but I cheated. At least it was kind of fun.

smart nigga