Curious to hear what women think about the current surplus of male virgins, what are the relevant causes and effects...

yea real men dont fuck around when we want to paint the wall with our brains we do it

Kek, that sure explains all those „i want to off myself but am too big of a pussy“ threads on here.

You're trying to be coy about it but you failed.
Suicide 'success' rates are way higher in men.
Because when they decide to actually do it, they actually do it moreso than females.

No, they do it for attention and with no intention of it actually working

This. There's nothing to reconcile. Women wanted and got their "freedom" and now the majority of men have to find other sources of love. 'Tis the globalist world we wanted

Not sure if gay psyops or retarded incel.

There are no more or fewer virgins of either sex than there have ever been. It's just that they're all here on Jow Forums so they seem like a lot.

>men can't love women if women aren't oppressed
Looks like men aren't capable of love and should be all genocided

as a Male I think the problem stems from too much personal entertainment.
It's not women's fault but more in line with the media we consume. Even though we know the difference between reality and fantasy, Fantasy is far more pleasing and men get depressed how reality is so boring and mundane. People arent like the people in movies or books or games, and even on TV talk shows where people arent how they are off TV.
Life is full of painful moments and escaping is the only thing that help some men cope. This intern however makes them isolated and weird, not have a healthy social life is what hurts them in the long run.
In the end it's just men shooting themselves in the foot for not trying to learn proper social skills or learn from their mistakes or from trying too hard to be the perfect human being mentally.

Where am I wrong enough that would warrant either of those charges?
Never said that. Some men surely can and do love free women. It's more so that the freed women don't love the majority of men, which they are more than welcome to do. And so yes, by not breeding with the undesirable men, women de facto genocide the undesirable genes.
None of this is wrong

You said men have to find other sources of love than women. If that's not full on homosexual I don't know what is.

True, but I don't think it necessarily means men. There are sex dolls, animals, yourself (meaning each guys' own self), god/religion, Nature, etc. Nearly endless things for men to love beyond holes that don't want them

>surplus of male virgins
Can you provide source for your claim? I have source claiming the female incels are on the rise as well.

theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/

And people dont think anything aboit virgins. Nobody but virgins care about sex. People who want sex / relationship go outside and get it with some struggle. The mentally ill, shy, introverts and other weirdos dont go outside and thats why they are virgins in the first place.

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The biggest shit test in human history is what's happening.
Raise a generation of men to be feminized beta males, the ones that break the conditioning are true alphas.

>the Atlantic
Wow, what an academic and authoritative source. Why not post hard data showing equal amounts of virgins for both sexes in the same age ranges?

If only that were true and males would shut the fuck up, disappear from society for real and leave women in peace for once. rather than bitching and harping about and harassing women as a whole all the time

Well, each of those is stigmatized, so of course when guys have no where to run, they're just going to complain or get violent. You can have your cake, but eating it has consequences

>Why not post hard data showing equal amounts of virgins for both sexes in the same age ranges?
Not that user, but he's not the one claiming that there's a surplus of male virgins, OP did. He should back that up with data.

I guess Jow Forums, the reddit incel boards, the other incel communities, and the various incel terrorists don't constitute as proof that something is wrong. He probably shouldn't have said "surplus" but still. It would seem, by that article, that there is in fact a "surplus" of virgins, though gender is indeterminate, and so the claim of "surplus male virgins" is still possible

They constitute proof of something being wrong, but that something doesn't necessarily mean a surplus of male virgins.
And yes, it's posible that there are more virgin people now than, say, 5 years ago. But unless the trend keeps up steadily, this could very well mean nothing at all. Whenever I try to get some info on this, I get all sorts of contradicting claims. Some sources say people lose their virginity later, others say that it's actually earlier, and at the end of the day, the only people actually interested in studying it are fashion magazines are BuzzFeed-like websites, so not a single one of them is reliable.
The only claim we can make is that a lot of male virgins are getting really angry at women in western societies for some reason.

Yes. I agree.

If you actually opened the link, you would see in that artice list of sources.

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Is there a surplus of virgins (relative to any point in the past)? Are there men virgins? Then there may be a surplus of male virgins. What a thought provoking article

- birth control and tinder enable hypergamy, women are getting their sexual needs met by casually hooking up with top tier males

- women have their own careers, so they don't seek out betas to provide for them

- if they do need a provider, they get a sugar daddy or camwhore while continuing to hook up with chad

Sex is still happening, it's just that 80% of guys have nothing to offer in this new arena, so they're basically living in a desert.

Wow, now you managed to read the clickbait headline. Maybe after another 10 (You)s you will read it...

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Incel rhetoric, folks

I don't need to read it to know what it says; nothing I didn't know.

Incels by definition are wrong. Incels base their beliefs on falsehoods.

That's why I advocate genocide of all males
Males are disgusting inferior horrible evil subhumans incapable of love, they have plenty of means to find fulfillment and purpose in their lives but they ignore them because they can't be happy unless they oppress women. She has the means and freedom to leave me if I am a disrespectful, unhelpful, useless, unsatisfying piece of shit to her? Waaaaaaaaaaahhh how dare she care for herself and her happiness she should only care about meeeeeeeeeeeee!!!1
Males are evil filth that needs to be killed, all male children need to get beaten to death

Jow Forums, the reddit incel boards, the other incel communities, and the various incel terrorists constitute that something is innately wrong with males and that males need to be aborted en masse before they can pollute this world even more

>I can no longer keep a woman hostage of homelessness poverty and starvation, that's why women don't choose me
Women are right not to choose someone like you and I mourn the unfortunate ones that were forced to in the past

Why are you giving a fuck about what women think about this? Do you really think it's something they think about? You are just an annoyance for them.

Sure, why not. Chick here.
>curious to hear what women think about the current surplus of male virgins
People are having less sex in modernized countries in general. This includes men and women. I'm in my last year of college and about 50% of the women I know still haven't gone all the way, as well as a lot of men I know (who were willing to admit it to me).
>what are the relevant causes and effects, and what if anything should be done about it
Children are expensive and socialization is difficult. I don't think anything can be "done," casual sex and dating just has a lot more competition with other forms of entertainment that is easier to secure with far less risk.
>What do u think the fact that men off themselves more than women?
Men choose more effective means of suicide, such as via guns. While I believe men are socialized to have less of a "safety net" with mental illness, especially in more traditional settings, a lot of women are also simply... not taught how to use guns the way men are. Shooting ranges and hunting are often father-son activities. While this is just my opinion, men tend to have more access to guns and have the knowledge to use them more than women. Thus, they can have more effective results.

What major? I'm a Male senior and I don't see that there are many female virgins...

Communication. I'm friends with people outside of my major, too. Every chick will avoid telling a man they're a virgin, though. I kept it away from the knowledge of any man I was talking to all the way up to 21, when I lost it to my LTR.

Why would you hide being a virgin?

A man interested in me because I was a virgin was a red flag for me. After talking to hundreds of men over a period of a couple years, it usually hinted at:

>doesn't actually respect/understand/like women
>ticking off a pure waifu checklist instead of actually being interested in me specifically
>obsessed with popping cherries and "claiming" women, objectification ahoy

It's just not worth fucking with men like that. If you don't give them your sexual status, they'll assume you're a whore and want nothing to do with you, which is exactly what I (and the other women I've talked to about this) want.

Also stats show that number to be far lower. 13% for guys/girls 20-24. It's probably higher in college so I'll even say 25% but that's still not extremely high.

Okay. It asked for my opinion and experience, not a statistical debate.

How about getting to know the guy and considering why he cares. I care a lot but it's not for any of those reasons.
A couple months ago I met a girl who I hit it off with and started dating, I found out that she most likely wasn't a virgin(I was and still am a virgin) and was really disappointed, especially when she confirmed it.
I don't think you realize just how traumatizing it can be imagining another guy who you've actually seen pics of doing something so intimate with the girl you care about. I lost so much sleep over it to the point where things went south when I didn't want to have sex. I regret it because I really did like her but if say she were a virgin and told me, it would be a giant relief. I don't have to worry about this other guy, no more intrusive thoughts, etc.. I'm sure I would have been so much happier and comfortable.

I'm not saying guys don't ever fetishize popping cherries but in my case I'm not even that interested in sex and would respect her boundaries.

I don

I

these are great explanations.
I also think "civilization" plays a great role: morals, laws, guilt... all those things coerce men into situations they find uncomfortable with. I believe men are more prone to be sorta wild, and society chastises this inclination. naturally, you find a lot of suppressed guys who cannot act upon their more violent, predatory instincts. then out of the blue, some of they snap. the rest just live bitter lives, full of angst and suppressed emotions and behaviours.

just to prevent a possible shitstorm: I don't see it as bad or good. it's just something that happens. maybe this is a byproduct of a recessive behaviour transported from ancient times, where being "wilder" was the norm and not the exception

>cont.
I don't think it's fair to lump every guy together as some asshole. If a guy you liked and respected you told you it made him uncomfortable you wouldn't admit to being a virgin and put him at ease? Is your stance against wanting a virgin more important than the feelings of your partner? Instead you're going to lie to him?

>I don't think you realize just how traumatizing it can be imagining another guy who you've actually seen pics of doing something so intimate with the girl you care about.
I don't care about your stupid inferiority complex. Someone who loses sleep over something like this is weak, pathetic, and would be a mess to date anyway. Your problems are not my problem.

I value myself far more than the crybaby opinions of an insecure man. My current man doesn't have this problem, and if I told him about your post, he'd laugh and call you a fag.

>having emotions is pathetic
Guys who actually care about you are going to feel this way. The type of guy who doesn't care is one who's already had lots of sex and puts no value in the act or you.

Imagine if you couldn't open up about your feelings to your guy because he say you as weak or pathetic.

People have emotions, unless you want to be with some sociopath or used by some fuckboy they aren't going to be happy knowing your past, they just cope by ignoring it and I think you're being selfish by not actually caring how he feels

I guarentee you under his facade he has deep insecurities, literally every man does. The fact that we have to bottle it up is one of the contributors to the high suicide rate. The same way you're dishonest he's hiding his feelings.

You misunderstand my point, user. My point is not that I will tolerate any form of insecurity from the men I date. Men's emotions and opening up do need to be taken seriously and not disregarded.

My point is that I will not tolerate your insecurity, specifically. Your hangup is controlling, irrational, and altogether pathetic outside of the scope of reasonable justification.

People live their lives independent of you, user. This is not an insecurity women must cater to, this is an insecurity you must make peace with and accept.

nice projection. just because youre an insecure faggot doesnt make the rest of us any more like you.

Female sexuality has been forcibly restricted for thousands of years. This isn't an obscure insecurity.

It's only our problem in the sense that what's done is done.

But you didn't answer, if your guy asks about your past you're going to lie to him? Being dishonest is okay because fuck insecurity?

If he has fucked hundreds of hookers you'd be okay with it. Not in the least bit putt of or questioning his behavior? I don't buy it.

>reading comprehension

I am a man and I agree with you.
It's wholly unreasonable and insanely naive to expect women to not have prior partners at this age and it's quite neurotic to have this many hang ups about it.
Also, good luck ever finding somebody good with "not a virgin" being a knock out criteria.
90% of virgins at this age did not "save themselves", they are just too weird or ugly to fuck and most likely have massive underlying issues.

Yeah, and it turns out immigrant males rise to the top, since they haven't had the same lifestyle.

That's bullshit though unless you can show me statistics to the contrary.

It's not about me, it's just a general observation.

The things that beta males had to offer women in the past have been taken away from them. You can insult guys who need to provide resources in exchange for female attention , but you end up having phenomena like mass NEETdom and Elliot rogers when all the incentives for men to work hard and to become properly socialized have been taken away from them.

>Female sexuality has been forcibly restricted for thousands of years
And that has hurt women horribly for thousands of years.
Any man that has a problem with a woman not being a virgin shows he doesn't care about her and he deserves to be hated and alone for that.

>if your guy asks about your past you're going to lie to him?
Not that user but if a guy does not accept my past 100% he isn't worth my time. And I don't need to tell him my past, just ask his opinion on women who are not virgins and it's anything less than 100% positive he isn't worth anyone's time ever.

About as unreasonable as only dating men over 6ft but that clearly doesn't deter anyone.

Any criteria is reasonable, women just don't like being judged for their actions even the tiniest fraction as much as men.

It also isn't hard to be a virgin, I've dated multiple girls and never had sex, it just takes the minimum of self restraint.

She doesn't have to date an insecure guy and a guy doesn't have to date a whore.

My main frustration is that she justifies lying or hiding information from her parents because in her mind he shouldn't need it. Imagine if bi men hid the fact that they fucked other men "because it shouldn't matter". Guess what? Women would see him as less of a man and be put off. The same fucking way we don't like having our gfs sucking another dick.

But this cunt only sees things from her lens and only responds with petty insults.

Women can smell it from a mile away if you do shit just to get pussy. You wont get any, promised.
Don't work hard for pussy, work hard for yourself and your goals.
That's when you get pussy.
It's my firm belief that anyone can become at least somewhat alpha. It's not a binary switch.

Because you're past says absolutely nothing about you right? Pure delusion

>The things that beta males had to offer women in the past have been taken away from them
Freedom and independence? But you still have those. And men never "had to offfer" or do anything "in exchange for" since you're talking about women being able to feed and house themselves just like you and without that ability women fucking die just like you would, retard. You aren't offering shit, you're forcing her to be a slave or die. That's not offering that's forcing and abuse and males need to die if all they want is to force women to be slaves because of whatever false bullshit they make up in their mind.
>mass NEETdom and Elliot rogers
They should all be killed.
>the incentives for men to work hard and to become properly socialized have been taken away from them
What incentives? Forcing a woman to starve if she doesn't want you? Forcing a woman to die on the street if she doesn't want you? And you call that "properly socialized"? That's not property socialized that's being an abusive piece of crap that needs death now. You're not making your case any better, you're only making me think you're monsters that need to be killed all. All you do is hurt women and you need to die for that.

The number of times you used "die" and "kill" in that post suggest to me you probably need to get some help desu.

>If a guy does not accept my past 100% he isn't worth my time.

t. man upset that women aren't forced to be slaves to assholes like him.

So you'll accept his past right? Otherwise you're not worth his time. Who cares if he fucked a a thousand guys, girls, trans, right?

Again, it's not about me. It's about large scale trends. Stop trying to attack me personally.

The fact is that men are motivated by the pursuit of women. That's how it's always been and how it always will be. If you take their incentives away and give women everything for free (free dick from tinder, free money from the government, sugar daddies, twitch streaming, whatever) then they'll drop out, become leeches who spend their days playing video games and jacking off, or shooting up schools. These trends aren't arising randomly, they have causes.

Again, before you start throwing a fucking hysterical fit, it's not about me, it's about large scale trends.

I just don't think its healthy to be calling for death and killing over a meaningless internet argument desu. Sort your head out you loopy cunt.

>So you'll accept his past right?
Depends if he's someone I want to be with or not. If he's a piece of shit who hates women being free, I want nothing to do with him no matter his past, in fact I'm not interested in such a shitty person or his past at all. I don't want him, he can die alone.

Women's freedom and independence from horrible men like user is never meaningless.

Stop making me your boogeyman strawman. I never said I lied, just that I don't like divulging it to a pushy man. Also:
>date a whore
>our gfs sucking another dick
>this cunt

>doesn't actually respect/understand/like women

Thanks for proving my point.

>implying he has any power at all
Get some fucking perspective.

The only thing proved is that you manage to be 10x as neurotic, I swear you must have been raped or something.

When he and all males like him claim false, wrong shit like that, they're showing they don't care about women, they're ready to hurt women to get what they want.
They need to get it into their shit-filled heads that's why they're alone and why they deserve to be alone. If he won't listen that's his problem, he will be told until he listens.

>men just are uncapable of socialising
spelling aside, I don't think this is correct.
I think what computers or the internet have done is made it so much easier to stay social within a group of like-minded people.
You can see this in everything from political debates to hobbies.
I am personally very social, I just don't socialize with women.
>A lot of men genuinely don't try anymore to get with girls.
I think this is very accurate. I personally never tried to get with girls because I thought there were more important things in life and I was busy in my own echo-chamber.
I actually thought I was asexual for a couple of years because couldn't even pretend to like the few women I interacted with.
>I get approached by 30 years old more than I do by 20 years old. It's just incredible to me.
Interesting. I am almost 30 now and I have never approached anyone at this point.
Guess I will become one of those creepers then.

>they don't care about women, they're ready to hurt women to get what they want.

Just like you're willing to hurt men to get what you want? You're literally repeatedly calling for men's deaths in your posts, and then turning around and acting like a victim. Get a fucking grip you psycho.

She proved you're a piece of shit that doesn't care about what a woman wants, and that's why you're alone.

Men are the ones that want to hurt women first, they are the ones that don't want women to be able to support themselves and not depend on a man to live. Men are the ones that want to enslave women. Women are right to defend themselves from such pieces of shit. Men could just fuck off and leave women alone, but they won't, that's why they need to be killed. Men are the offending party.

How is not wanting to date someone because of their sexual history in any way related to not caring about women. I judge men the same way. I've actually called men whores more often that women. This girl is clearly mentally ill if she equates sexual freedom to men hating women, it doesn't even have to be a gender issue, promiscuity is bad in general but you're only seeing things from this crazy victimized perspective.

Men also protect you from foreigners looking to invade your territory and rape you. They also built society. They work hard to provide for women and their families.

You have an irrational hatred of men, only consider the bad and acknowledge none of the good. No doubt your life has been punctuated by a series of sour relationships which were poisoned by your neuroticism. Another victim of the leftist academic indoctrination camps, I'm sure.

She's a fucking communications major, what do you expect. It's really insane the shit they push in these non-stem courses.

Women are also more miserable than ever and sexual abuse has been on the rise since the sexual revolution whose main promoters were sick pedos...

You're free not to date whoever for whatever reason, but you must also respect her freedom not to care about men with shitty opinions and ignore them for good. She won't tell you she's a virgin because you're a piece of shit and she doesn't want you, and that's okay. Fuck off.

I'm the girl who made the first post.
Yes, there is. Personally I grew up with a father who always made sure to externalise his feelings so I probably don't feel as strongly about it as other girls, and my boyfriend is a guy who talks a lot about his feeling with me too, so for me it isn't that huge of a deal. But I do recognise that in general there is a social stigma.
The rest of your post is kind of silly. Both being man and being woman has its pros and cons. It is what you make of it.

This is true too to some degree.
I think it is fine to chastise predatory behaviours, but not to chastise the whole category. I think we're excessively guilting men.

>I think what computers or the internet have done is made it so much easier to stay social within a group of like-minded people.
Yeah, and I don't think it is a good think. You end up circle jerking with a group of people who validate you, and lose touch with society and people who are different from you. You're not out there socialising, you're just inside your echo chamber. You also tend to stick in groups who are a lot alike (so often even same-gendered) and miss out the chance of meeting new people and potential partners.

>Interesting. I am almost 30 now and I have never approached anyone at this point.
Unlikely. It's mostly older people who have been hitting on girls for all their lives.

>Women are also more miserable than ever and sexual abuse has been on the rise since the sexual revolution whose main promoters were sick pedos...

They thought that trying to act like men and have careers and to be "free" would be fulfilling. Here's a pro tip, ladies: men don't want to waste their lives working, we do it because we have to.

Now you're simply a slave to capitalism rather than a husband. Congrats on your liberation.

>we protect you by enslaving you
That's like saying you make the pain go away by killing the patient. I'd rather do without "protection" like that
>built society
Pfft, now that's bullshit.
>work hard to provide for women
>by bitching when she wants something he doesn't or forcing her to accept his decisions or die
I'd rather provide for myself, that way I'm sure I get what I want. I don't want to depend on some man's stupid shitty irrational whims.
>You have an irrational hatred of men
As if. History shows men deserve to be hated by women and aren't nearly getting hated enough.

>lying to your partner is okay if you don't like his opinions
You must be a real pleasure

Capitalism pays always, without fail, all the money I want, and never says anything when I want to spend it however I want. Objectively much better than a husband.

Woah, you trying to say that capitalism are just using women for extra labor and that they don't actually care about their wellbeing... that can't be right...

>Yeah, and I don't think it is a good thing
Obviously, it is not a good thing, but I think this is what happens.
Using my own life as an example again, I don't work with women, I don't have hobbies that allow me to meet women and when I go out drinking or something, I don't talk to women. My world consist of 90% men.
I have recently joined a running club where I can meet some women, but it is also a fairly solitary thing to do.
It is hard to escape this.

>Unlikely.
Well, I did approach girls when I was a kid and I went to school with girls. I never had problems getting girls back then, (half the school was girls, so you could just go talk to them) but I have never done the traditional "approach" where I ask someone out and get rejected or end up dating them.
When I was 16, I got a girlfriend by throwing pebbles at her feet to get her attention, I doubt that will work now.

You must be a treat to be around.

How are you her partner if she rejected you? You're not her partner.

Unlike your victim fantasy world women don't reject you the instant you ask about their past. I've done it before. Sometimes even blatant asked if they are a virgin and usually it's no big deal.