ATTENTION: ALL ANONS WITH GF

>Knew younger girl as fren for 5 years on furfag writing website.
>We both come from abusive as fuck households so we both empathize and share innermost feelings with each other.
>I thought she wouldn't date me for some reason
>Date other chick who is emotionally abusive and drives me to near suicide.
>Break up, old fren is literally only person who gives a shit about me for who I am rather than who I pretend to be.
>We bond really closely for 6 months
>Start dating.

I will literally never ever trust or love another woman at this point. If she dies or something I will just remain alone forever and be fine. Whatever you do, don't date just anyone focus on an unbelievable emotional connection or bust.

The “secret” is talking to women and making moves. I don’t think my story of getting my latest gf will help you because it involves hooking up with her before she became my gf, and no offense but if you’re asking for gf advice on Jow Forums, I assume you’re not good at hookups either

OP here. To be honest I dont think these stories are helping me. I'm not involved in any online communities other than Jow Forums. And I'm not a weeb or a furfag or anything like that

Maybe I'm cursed by the fact that I'm a KHV existing in "normie" social circles

Could you tell your story please? I'd like to hear how someone actually did this kind of thing IRL and not over the internet

Facebook, talked to her about Persona first thing.

Just small talk.

Real life, met online though.

Having a large circle of friends exposes you to more women, don't be desperate it makes you unattractive.

Women want men who want them, not men who would take just anyone.

Women are just normal people, fear will destroy you.

>Having a large circle of friends exposes you to more women

Yeah I know. Not to brag but I think I probably know more women than you do.

I'm really unfortunate in that if you saw me on the surface, you wouldn't presume I'm a KHV. And yet I am one. Never been on a date, never even come close.

Normie women are harder to date, they have much harder to obtain standards.

They want you to have a strong career, to stay fit and active, and many have a strong sense of wanderlust which will consume your weekends and break the bank.

I mean, are you even saying this from experience? Given the fact you're probably one of the nerd anons I just replied to. Do you even know any "normie" girls on a personal basis?

Your problem is that you are a coward, you fear rejection too much.

You're not gonna strike out man, it's gonna suck, but one day you'll hit a home run if you keep going at it.

Remember to take care of yourself and see value in yourself, and don't settle. Only ask out women that you really want to date.

How do i get over a fear of rejection then?

I have a large circle of friends, some of which are more normie. Mostly my old HS circles.

I have married normie friends I spend time with too, it'd not hard to observe the dynamics of their relationships.

I'm a very social weeb, I'm a convention goer so social skills are a nessecity.

Like a muscle you work it until it stops hurting.

Experience is the only cure, toy gotta have balls and risk rejection.

Have a hobby, no matter how fucking lame and fake confidence.

I met my last 3 girlfriends from riding vintage mopeds. Like the dumb 70s ones with pedals. Super lame, but there is a subculture for them. I'd approach them talking about their bikes, talk about shit they have done. Not "oh my god you ride that's cool!" but shit that a fellow hobbyist would notice. Ask if they want to ride or wrench some time, move on from there.

But what if my fear is so strong I can't actually do it? It's like a paralyzing fear. It's not actually possible for my brain to allow me to ask a girl out, to flirt with a girl, to go in for a kiss even if the moment presents itself.

I need some way of lessening my fear of rejection to a level where I can actually begin to try. Are there any substitutes or maybe even drugs that could help me in this regard? Alcohol hasn't worked, even with a few beers in me I am still too scared to make a move on girls

Truth is you need to grow to a quality man with a quality life.
then you don't need tricks, everything will go natural.

>I'd like to hear how someone actually did this kind of thing IRL
Alright but seeing as you’re a KHV I don’t think my story will be of much help to you
>be grad student
>go to event at local bar to meet new grad students in my department
>meet girl, briefly talk, exchange numbers
>next weekend, go to football tailgate, she’s there too
>host the after party at my apartment
>she leaves early but not before we make out
>next week we plan to go to another tailgate and some other events together as a sort of date
>we go to my place after and fuck
>continue fucking the next couple weeks
>decide to have the “where is this going” talk with her, we agree we both want a relationship

I have several hobbies. "Normie" hobbies too like sports and theatre. Still a kissless dateless handholdless virgin.

Met her online. She was friends of an online friend of mine, who introduced us because he thought we would have gotten along.
We talked for over a year just about random stuff - common interests, life, random shitposting and banter.
She is the funniest girl I've ever met. She's very curious, intelligent, she is also surprisingly good at debating. She is also really caring and sweet.
One day we decided to start voice chatting and I fell asleep with her voice. We talked for 10 hours a day on the phone. I fell asleep to her reading me stories.Then we got on webcam and holy shit she's stunning. At that point I just told her I wanted to go see her because I liked her a lot. She told me she liked me too.
I went to see her. We hanged out for a month. I kissed her the second I saw her, before even saying hi.

>be me, pretty good looking
>dress like a gay vampire
>walk dog outside at 4am
>get approached by cute, slightly drunk foreigner that compliments me
>invite her for a coffee nearby
>talk about small pointless shit
>end up walking with them around the city later the same day
>become friends
>keep in contact during her stay
>keep in contact even afterwards
Gz, you have a gf now.

>saw her on a vidya forum
>messaged her about some dumb shit regarding a recent post of hers
>realize we get along strangely well
>add each other on steam
>continue occasionally chatting and playing games
>court her for 2 years
>met irl for the first time last month, now planning a 2nd meetup
I should also clarify that we live on different continents, but I'm moving to her country as soon as time allows

I just dont understand how these things happen. Even with you explaining it, it's just bewildering to me. Seems like god has just cursed me to never have these kinds of things happen to me...

What don't you get exactly?

I don't understand how you get into these positions. I don't understand how you turn platonic interactions with girls into romantic ones. I don't understand how you have the courage to make a move on them. I don't understand how you know instinctively what to do at every moment.

It all just seems hopelessly beyond me. I've tried so hard. But I just can't do it. It's not like I don't try. I have plenty of female friends, and at parties I often end up speaking to a girl I meet there for a long time but never actually end up making a move because I'm scared and nothing seems like it's "naturally happening"

I'm After hearing her voice I had such a crush on her.
I started complimenting her and trying to get her on the phone with me more and more. I started playfully flirting with her and since she responded well and flirted back, I asked her to go on video. When I saw her I escalated the flirting to something a little more obvious - told her she was beautiful. She kept responding well, so I told her I liked her and wanted to go see her.
That's it.

Didn't take any courage to do it.

But you had to have courage, surely, or else you would have been paralyzed like me.

I can't bring myself to even compliment a girl. I can't remember the last time I even told a girl I liked her clothes or something harmless like that. Even if a girl compliments me, I can't return one in exchange. I'm terrified she'll be offended by me complimenting her. That's the extent of my fear.

I don't understand how other men don't have this fear.

I mean, it doesn't feel like a scary task.
I felt something, I said it. I'm not scared of saying what I think.
What's there to be scared of?

>What's there to be scared of?

Not sure. I just know it's bad. Like staring into the dark, you can't tell what exactly it is in there, but you can feel the presence of something fucking scary. That's the feeling I get when I contemplate making a move on a girl.

I wish someone could just tell me how I'm supposed to overcome this fear. I feel like I'm in a prison.

I can sympathize with your fear of offending women, especially in these times where men are often demonised to be psychopathic sexual predators.
However, don't let it get to you. Just be a decent person, don't be creepy or inappropriate. A harmless compliment is not going to offend a sane person. Not every girl is going to assume the worst of you, despite the aforementioned.

Aren’t you the guy who’s constantly making threads about this exact thing? Haven’t you realized by now that your crippling anxiety can’t be solved by a bunch of random anons? It’s not that we don’t want to help you, it’s just that we literally cannot.

Like all fears - do what's scary, even if it's scary. When you realise nothing really bad happens, it will go away.

I'm not afraid of being labelled a predator. I'm afraid of the girl not being attracted to me. Which I almost consider to be a scarier prospect.

I have this image in my head that I might flirt with a girl at a party, compliment her, or ask for her number, and she'll respond politely. But in her head she will be thinking "oh god, no, I don't like him... he's not my type". Which is just embarrassing, humiliating, degrading. I can't handle that.

I know. But the fear is literally so strong that I actually cannot do it. I don't even know where I'd begin.

Therapy is your only option. Maybe even try some sort of informal exposure therapy with some friends.

By doing it. That's literally all that there is to this.
Start by smaller steps (flirting with a girl on an app, complimenting someone's clothing, etc) and move up to asking someone out.
Go see a therapist about this, too.

>be me
>match with 2/10 on tinder
>decide i will never get to have sex
otherwise

she’s moving in with me next month

I met her in the 10th grade and played chess with her during English class. My teacher would allow us to play chess after doing our work. I was fairly obvious about eyeballing her all the damn time, but I also acted as though I was giving her attention so I could continue to beat her at chess. That summer she asked me out on a date to the local 4th of July celebration and we went on a long walk and talked about our life experiences. That was 9 years ago. (She is very based and understands marriage is silly at a young age.) I love her beyond words.

>I don't understand how other men don't have this fear.

You don't understand how other people don't have a pathological fear of rejection?

The same way that many people don't permit unreasonable fears to cripple them from anything else. How are you able to leave your home without being fearful that someone won't decide to kill you for your wallet? Or that you'll get into a fatal vehicular collision?

Pretty much the same thing. You catastrophize what will happen if you're rejected. Instead of making an effort to pursue what you want, you indulge yourself with your distorted thinking.

>flirting with a girl on an app
Tried that. Messaged 5 girls on tinder. One responded but in a kind of nonchalant way. Other 4 didn't respond. Gave up after that.

>complimenting someone's clothing
I can sort of, sometimes do that. If a girl is wearing a cool shirt or jacket I'll say so. But it takes a lot of strength to get those words out of my mouth. Even though the girl always responds nicely and nothing ever goes wrong, I still find it terrifying.

I attribute all this to me being bullied savagely in high school. I got over most of the issues but somehow my problems with women still exist. I can look at myself in the mirror and say "I'm attractive, I'm valuable, I'm a cool and chill guy, I'm worthy" and really believe it, honestly. But I can't comprehend the idea of a girl being attracted to me. It just doesn't compute.

You have a crippling phobia. Seek therapy.

Therapy never helped me. Am I just hopeless? I dont know why this has happened to me. I feel like this is an unbearably cruel fate that I don't really deserve in life

No.
I tried 4 therapists before finding one who helped me.

Did you ever seek therapy specifically for your problems with women though?

And you're gonna hate me for this, bud
My experience?
>Step one: stop caring about, needing or wanting a girlfriend; achieve solace in independence and solitude
>Step two: literally can't get rid of the bitches now

The problem is you guys can't pull away from it; you've built up the manic pixie dream girl in your head so high and strong that A) no real girl could hope to match up anyway and B) that you've become obsessed with attaining what is becoming strictly fantasy.

You guys want success with women, the first thing you need to do is prove that you don't need them to validate it for you.

I dont think there is any therapist that could help me. Have you ever heard of another man with my problem? Sure, most men are scared of rejection to some degree. But i've never ever heard of another man who is scared of it to such a degree that he cannot kiss a girl he likes who is all over him and flirting with him heavily, or can't even do so much as tell a girl she looks cute in her dress.

I think I'm the only man to have ever experienced this fear as harshly as this. My previous therapists were dumbfounded by me stating my fears. They just told me things like "you have to be courageous and take a risk". Which obviously isn't going to help me, is it? I don't see what a therapist could say or do to reduce my fears. They're so strong I can't imagine a way around them.

My boyfriend was heavily agoraphobic. The therapist didn't tell him "oh just go outside and be courageous".
They worked on a year long plan to work on his fear, with medication, exercises, different types of therapy.
He's mostly over it now.

Just look for a therapist who is specialised in treating phobias and work with him on a plan to reduce your fears.

If he's agoraphobic how the hell did he get a girlfriend?

This is part of what makes me so confused and upset. Why is it that I'm a mostly normal and sociable guy but I have this very particular and extreme fear surrounding romantic interactions? People with serious conditions like agoraphobia, intense social anxiety, depression etc, can get girlfriends, but I cannot.

>living in this box
Just because you refuse to help yourself, doesn't throw everyone in that box.

Because you are deadass fucking obsessed with the idea of a girlfriend

Only because I've been a kissless dateless handholdless virgin my whole life. That isn't normal or natural, it doesnt matter what anyone says.

We met online when I was 19 and he was 23. He got therapy for 5 years till he was able to take a plane and fly across the world to take me out on a date.
Most romantic gesture someone could ever do for me. Would have agreed to marry him on the spot if he asked me.
I'm moving in with him in July, we're getting married this december.

I just give up. I don't understand how these things happen for over men but never for me. No woman has ever wanted me.

You win Jow Forums. I'm destroyed.

He went to therapy for 5 years and worked incredibly hard on himself, it didn't just "happen" to him dude.
Go to therapy for 5 years to work on your phobia and then you can come back and complain about how you have it worse than him.

You were attracted to him in the first place. No girl has ever been attracted to me.

That's a lie and we both know it. I don't know why you try to fool yourself like this.
I've read you post on here a thousand times, you had plenty of girls attracted to you.

If girls were attracted to me then why am i a kissless dateless handholdless virgin?

Because you make whiny vent threads on Jow Forums.

Because you never made a move.
You said somewhere you had a girl sleeping in your bed, you had girls flirting with you, etc.
Don't lie to me and to yourself, idiot.

you don't do it easily, it's something you just do
talking to girls is easy, just talk to them.
be afraid, and then do it anyway. not being a pussy is not always about being fearless, it's also about doing things you don't want to do.

How can you have a girl sleeping in your bed and still fuck it up???

He couldn't give up on his kissless virginity identity or some shit.

I was scared that maybe I had misread the situation. Maybe she was just sleeping with me for convenience or comfort, and maybe she didn't really want anything physical from me.

But then she started touching me a lot, like A LOT. So I realized it couldn't just be a coincidence. But then comes stage 2 of my fear. I knew what she wanted, but I was scared to give it to her. I don't know how to kiss and I certainly don't know how to have sex. So I really didn't know what I was supposed to do. I was utterly petrified of trying to kiss her and just doing it horribly wrong and humiliating myself

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So much for Mr No Girl Was Ever Attracted To Me.

Well, I presume no girl was ever TRULY and seriously attracted to me, or else they might have asked me out or tried to kiss me.

She was literally in your fucking bed touching you. She made the first move, the second move, the third move and you didn't respond to any of that. If she did anything else it would have been rape.

>be girl
>like guy
>flirt with him
>he doesn't make a move
>get in the same bed as him
>he doesn't make a move
>touch him
>he doesn't make a move

What would she do at this point?
You've rejected her so many times, it'd be stupid of her to ask you out.
She made a move on you 3 times, you didn't do anything. Flirting is a dance. One person makes a step, the other person makes another step. If you sit still and don't do shit, you can't expect the other person to do everything for you.
This person gave you COUNTLESS opportunities to make your move, she CLEARLY seriously liked you and YOU rejected her.
The reason why you're virgin is not because women aren't attracted to you, it is because you're a pussy who doesn't have any intention of fixing himself and consistently rejects women who try to get with him, and never tries to get with girls.
Stop making threads.

Yeah but the way girls show interest is never distinct or overt. What I needed was for her to look me in the eyes and just say "user, i really like you and want to kiss you". Then there would have been no question that that was what she wanted. Girls seem to want to do everything by non-verbal communication, which is fine, but it means everything is open to interpretation.

Also, what was I supposed to do given the fact that I literally dont know how to kiss? If I tried to make out with her it would have been a miserable failure and she would have lost interest in me as a result.

You think I dont know all this? I know this is the case. I dont know how to fix it.

I basically need a girl to just guide me by the hand and do everything for me. I figure if I could just find one girl who is willing to do that, then by the end, I'd probably have overcome my fear.

90% of my fear of rejection is based around my lack of sexual self worth. I find it hard to imagine anyone being attracted to me because I've never experienced anything romantic or sexual before, therefore I have no proof that it's even biologically possible for women to be attracted to me.

I mean if I could just find a girl who was willing to "date" me for a month or two. Someone who was willing to accept me being totally inexperienced, and who was willing to just hang out with me and let me sit there and go on dates with her, and then she can guide me through sex or whatever. And then she doesn't even have to stick around after that if she doesn't want to, I just need someone to teach me exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, and help me to have belief in myself as a sexual being.

What's move over than being in your bed touching you? Do you want her to start sucking your dick or something?

>what was I supposed to do given the fact that I literally dont know how to kiss?
Kiss her. You would have learned by doing. Like everyone else does.

>I basically need a girl to just guide me by the hand and do everything for me
Like the girl who was in your bed touching you all over? Kek.

You're just fucking retarded user. Maybe it's better if you stay virgin because you're too much of a looney to risk you reproduce.

Like I said, I would have appreciated if she could have actually said in words that she was attracted to me and wanted to be intimate with me. At no point in our conversations before we slept together had she ever expressed in words that she liked me. She just kept gradually escalating in physical touch until we were literally sleeping in the same bed one night. But she never SAID anything about liking me or wanting to do anything.

>literally have a girl showing you things
>it's still not good enough
We don't know what you want anymore so we just tell you to get therapy because A) they're paid to deal with your circular logic and B) they're professionally educated to deal with your circular logic

You wanna defeat yourself so bad then go for it. As far as I'm concerned you need to forget about sex until you can go an entire day without being bogged down by your sexual obsession

No obsession is healthy, that's just the way it is

>move the goalposts
You're legitimately more complicated to make a social read and move on than the average teenage girl

This is the definition of mind games
>I just want her to take my hand and guide me
>Her: *literally does this*
>Not good enough!

user, people in the real world don't confess. I know they do in anime, but in real life people don't drop "I like you and I want to kiss you".
Being in the same bed as you groping you is as explicit as real world people will ever get.

I confessed to my girlfriend (after we were dating mind but it's complicated) and my girlfriend before that confessed to me and before that I confessed to the girl

It's just that timing is key and a confession is more like signing the contract after agreeing, than it is getting them to agree to sign. You generally only confess when you know the situation is right and you've basically built the foundations for it.

On the other hand I also had a girlfriend get in good by crawling into my bed and then insisting her shirt could be easily unbuttoned.

She didn't guide me though. She just touched me a lot in an attempt to get me to start making out with her or something. Guiding me would be if she actually told me to kiss her, and then gave me tips on it if I got something wrong.

Dude I don't watch anime

Thing is, if girls don't actually SAY they're attracted to me, then how am I supposed to know for certain that they are? If they don't actually say it, there's always a chance they might not be

Maybe if you were 15. But normal adults don't really confess their feelings to people they're not dating.
Like, I've never in my life seen two people over 15 start dating by "Hi, person I don't know very well. I like you. Do you want to go out with me?" "Yes". That just doesn't exist.

If they're groping you in your bed, it's pretty safe to assume.
In general, just ask them out and if they tell you yes, then yeah.

Eh.. I had a few girls confess that they like me and ask for my number when I was a teen. I'm still a khd virgin though haha

Well that almost happens, just without the explicit confession. But of course both parties know what's going on when a stranger introduces him/herself and tries to get the number of the other person or asks him/her out.

Yeah, it might happen when you're a teenager. Not between normal adults.

Like, I'm 25, the last time someone confessed to me was a 6 year old I was babysitting. Before that, someone in high school.

Yes. I meant that the explicit confessions don't happen.
user here wants an explicit formal confession and that just doesn't happen. Dude, it takes me 60 seconds of interaction to have a fair guess about whether someone wants to bang me or not.

Every story in this thread is about some lucky encounter. Some of us never get those.

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>some lucky encounter
Yeah if you count being social as a “lucky” encounter

thats true and false at the same time.
you will "get lucky" if you get out of your comfort zone and socialize with strangers. preferably some that share your interests
You wont get lucky if you stay in your room.

>implying
I go to college. I have a job. I'm in a band and go to parties most weekends. I've never randomly hit it off with a girl though.

>this thread again
go to therapy and never come back

>I've never randomly hit it off with a girl though
Translation: I don’t ever talk to women

>tfw my boyfriend went to therapy for 5 years and took a plane across earth to meet me
>"some lucky encounter"

take care of your appearance
don't be negative
stop dwelling on things you can't fix i.e your beta jaw, your manlet height and instead work on the things you can

He went to therapy because a girl liked him.

Where do you talk to women, and how do you open the conversation?

This here was my story.
The odds were small but hey, the internet is such a great tool.

He went to therapy because he liked me. I was friends with him for the first 3-4 years before we met.

I met my gf at work. We are kind of coworkers, same building, but completely different jobs and dont interact much. I thought she hated me, but I found out later she was just very very shy. So I started to try to talk to her anytime we saw each other. Then she found out me and some other coworkers play d&d and surprisingly asked to join. We started texting and talking more and after 6 months of playing together I asked her out and she said yes. We've been together since, coming up on 5 years.

And you liked him. That's luck.