Dealing with toxic self-rightous catholic family?

I'm an Atheist, and I think this has caused a lot of the issues I have with some of my family. Ironically at a certain point I became an insufferable one to my family, because they started treating me like I have a mental disorder and became increasingly condescending. Any small issue I had in life, and normally tried confiding in others about, was met with smart ass passive aggressive comments along with stereotyping me and my character. When I started realizing what was going on, I became angry and started defending myself, but they saw it as me being the asshole. Anyway, the relationship with them has become a bit toxic in a subtle way, I realize what was happening and quit defending my actions from wrongful assumptions and judgements. My cousins have done more than me to recieve criticism, and they are treated with more understanding and offered genuine help... I became sort of a joke and a whipping boy, so there is some underlying resentment going on and all I want is for my family to actually love me and care about me. Everytime they around though, it's either dismissive, or my uncle (he's a deacon) "jokes" and gives me a hard time. If I get upset everyone rolls their eyes, so I've sort of given up because of all the double standards. Do my best to treat them with respect and offer help, or just understanding... But, it's like they are a High School clique and they act as if I don't measure up to them in some way.

Should I just move on, or is there a way to fix this and find some understanding?

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they're religious, they have no morals or self awareness beyond petty rivalry and social capital. cut ties.

That's fine and I hope you're right. What scares me though, is how do I find good friends in a red state that produces people with these ideas. They confuse their own stubbornness for intelligence, and accuse me of not being open minded enough to converse with them about any topic... Which is ironic. People just seem to generally be a bunch of smart asses and dicks, so it's hard for me to make any real friends during times like this... Afraid of being alone.

You go your way and let them go theirs. Agree with everything they say and then ignore it

>Ricky Gervais quotes
>even admits to being insufferable
>uses the term "toxic"
>calls family self-righteous, even though it's clear that he's the self-righteous one
>his "issues" are probably silly nonsense
Man, I feel sorry for your family.

No.

Yes.

This. While I hate Christians, the religious are 10x better than atheists.

You say their morals are limited, but where do yours come from? I have always wondered this. I feel like the moral atmosphere of the modern world I like medieval Europe and yet no one can seemingly articulate where their morals come from

*is like medieval

They are arbitrary. All morals are arbitrary.
You take an arbitrary abstract principle, or a set, if you like, and then you work out what would or would not be allowable under those principles.

I'm christian but if your uncle roasts you, roast him about touching kids with a smile and then deal with the blowback.

I don't wanna be racist but I think white guys sometimes suffer because you don't have an explicit roasting culture. I always grew up knowing that, if you're the butt of a joke, it means its your turn to flip the script and make the joker the butt. Not that NO white guys get this, just that I notice white guys struggling with roasts way more.

Good luck user, its fine to disagree with your family on shit. I disagree with my some family members on a lot of things(but its true I'm not the isolated dissenter).

"The path to hell is laid with bricks of good intentions."

The reason the religious are immoral from an objective standpoint, is they believe their view is good and act on good intentions, which those who don't agree become enemies and the shunned and persecuted. So while their actions in their mind view against others they see as enemies are good, in reality is hurting and causing pain in others they don't bother to understand. It's easier for them to make excuses.

No, I won't do that, I've tried and makes no difference. He uses my reaction to make himself look like the victim, and I get ganged up on when I was just trying to "play" like they were.

I get that, and yet I'm asking what the set of modern morals is.

>objective morals
Oh boi. Why is pain "bad," exactly?

White people disgust me sometimes.

I still think you should embrace the role as the family villain over the family victim. I also think you should often reiterate your love for your individual family members to them personally.

~I do admit though I seriously suck at roasting people.

The religious are not immoral from an objective standpoint.
To suggest such would require that objective morality exists. This is false
Aside from that, many religious people are not immoral by my standards, owing to the fact that they cherry pick moral guidance from their book, if they even care to read scripture at all.
Admittedly, some do become completely immoral, in precisely the manner you suggest.
I believe your post may be offered in the more succinct form of a quote from C.S Lewis:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

Too many individuals to tell.
Everyone believes something different.

When pain is laid on others for illogical reasons (racism, prejudice, misunderstanding, laws written from the standpoint of fiction like the bible, and fear and insecurity driven beliefs without study) it's not perfect, but at least try to be objective and understanding.

You're basically calling me a pussy, and that I should 'own' being the "villain" right?

Exactly, and OP's getting assblasted when his family has a codified set of morals and they treat him as an outsider who can't even articulate what his own stance is beyond, "orange man bad"

Not a reason. See you later

Self righteousness.

Is bad because __

That's because his views try to be observant and move with new information, strict tradition is immovable.

Which is good because ___

It's not about bad or good, it's just stupid.

Proof?

A bit dude, yeah.

I'm not saying go out there guns blazing, trying to take lives, but just acknowledge you're the pariah amd remind them you still love them. You're allowed to challenge views just so long as you're ready to have your views challenged. Just like roasts/banter.

For example I'm the only one, aside from my dad, who believes Africans sold slaves. You can imagine what other disagreements might spring from that.

bad or good is a claim that was created by humans to simplify personal pain and comfort, when the universe doesn't give a damn. Ego driven morals are something humans find difficult to get past, which requires understanding others pain and comfort... The current morals, especially ones as primitive as religious or belief driven morals, is only for self satisfaction.

>white guys
White American guys*

So, you keep hinting that these things are bad, or that simplification is bad, or that stupidity is bad, and keep making these quasi judgements but have no reference point for good. You're judging as much as they are, the only difference is they don't care how progressive they look

True, I just got to work on my banter and become more clever. Usually in the moment people just like being smart asses, because I can offer many things to dive deeper into the discussion, but they just want to win-not try and understand with me~ which not everyone has the time for I admit... Just wish they wouldn't hate or judge me for asking more questions.

it's about right or wrong, bad or good are too emotional. You're interpreting that way in your own mind, not mine, you're putting words in my mouth.

So what is right or wrong?

And, I'm not doing it for a fashion statement, and you're trying to offend me and be stereotypical. I'm seriously trying to be as accomodating as possible, always. Not trying to wind or dominate.

To say I know what is right or wrong would be egotistical, even though I am only human, I do my best to be objective, I don't see that in those who are religious because they have something to lose and use the excuse of faith to stop the conversation.

And yet you're saying egotism is wrong, and objectivism right.

They don't have a codified set of morals though.
Their morals are almost as arbitrary as his.
They could agree on almost everything other than "God exists".

Objectivism, Scientific principles are based on finding what is right using observation and asking questions... It has no qualms with being wrong or right, just finding the truth so we can survive along side each other and with the universe around us. Biologically we have limitations, and science has shown us that we are not perfect, it is therefor right to admit to ourselves that finding meaning in what works in and for ourselves which leads to a better life eventually for all. It's the best basis of thought so far because it can change and provide ideas that we can act on with more assurance. It creates ideas which can be changeable, as long as they coincide with observable evidence... Tradition and belief in something that lacks the evidence to back it just doesn't make sense.

Science doesn't give you normative statements, only information. What's best for everyone would be eugenics, and yet no one is interested in that. The normative half of your objective morals comes down to judgement, which will be done from a egotistical point of view, or with personal preferences.

That's just because of my limitation of being able to use what I've learned so far, but at least for me I welcome to be changed and convinced otherwise. That's how my thought process works, I don't make any excuses. All I have are ideas, some can't be changed so easily with religious thinking patterns.

Deal them the most severe blow by coming home to the one true church, the Eastern Orthodox.

Objectivism on it's own is a shit system for morals. Seriously, the scientific method and rationalism can only help you if you have a subjective starting point, if you know what you want.

Eugenics is a bugaboo and very taboo I admit, but only because it was used to further the justification of emotional irrational hatred and feeling of superiority to others as a species... It was logic being used and cherry picked for illogical reasons.

I agree, it can be taken too far and become heartless.

Desire can be changed with education and more information for what is best... If people were perfect, which they are not.

But if science proved that a human race (or ethnicity) was better suited for continued survival, or perhaps more intelligent, then it would be right to turn to eugenics? Or, perhaps I mean to ask, if eugenics could improve overall intelligence, wouldn't that be right? This would require intelligence being desirable

Eugenics literally makes sense from an objective standpoint though. You cull the weak from the gene pool, which results in humanity becoming genetically stronger.

It's taboo because it requires that individuals with poor genetics be denied the ability to procreate, whether they will it or not.
Such overbearing authority is often disliked by people.

No, I mean it's literally useless. Take a system of government, for example.
Science doesn't care which one we use, as long as we think rationally.
Democracy, anarchy, dictatorship; the system of governance is irrelevant, the outcomes are the same. Humanity at large gets governed, and the science gets done.

Ignore the "literally". It is a detestable habit I seem unable to avoid.

But, culling the weak is unecessary in the sense of mass genocide. I do agree we can do it through designing healthy births and healthier babies. It causes pain to no one... Thing is, genetics is very complicated and it was being oversimplified like breeding dogs. No, even the dumbest and ill of people can produce healthier offspring than they were initially, in some cases. Cleansing genes and providing a healthier offspring from the start would not be immoral if done correctly. But, then where does perfection and desire for it end? We don't know. As humans we admire variety, is that a weakness? I got no fucking clue, but I can admit that.

Empathy is something we have yet to master. Those are the two things we need to master now as a race. Empathy along with Science.

Which system helps it thrive though more though? We need an educated populace to keep up with the times, and we miss a lot of opportunities because of lack of resources, education, and health. We need a populace that is capable of being given a chance to provide to the world, not just strive to survive and scrounge.

I think OP just got played. He is insufferable and doesn't see it. No wonder his family doesn't like him.

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Christfag here. Your family is not one of God, and all they've done is merely convinced themselves otherwise. They may have heard their doctrine, but they refuse to abide by it.

Hit them where it hurts. Suggest that a follower of God would never turn their back on one that genuinely needs their help. Call them out as the hypocrital ungodly assholes that they are.

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>Suggest that a follower of God would never turn their back on one that genuinely needs their help.
While there is something to be said of repeated and unprovoked acts of contempt as described in the OP, pic related still applies.

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Yeah, I could have used some better phrasing there. OP shouldn't repeat what I say word-for-word in the event that he actually confronts them. Probably wanna read that holy book if you got any time to spare.

Also gonna shill the Bible Project. While I'm not sure how applicable it could be in your situation, it's an interesting video series regardless of your faith.

Take it from someone who experienced this: you will never satisfy them. Religious cults operate so well largely because of family ties sustaining them. Cut them off or just accept that you will always have a strained relationship