For a long time now, I've wanted to date a woman with CAIS. CAIS stands for "Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome." As the name suggests, it's a genetic rarity that affects androgen receptors in males, giving them female physical characteristics. Symptoms include: >above average height >naturally clear skin >large, full breasts >slender builds >little to no pubic hair >tite pusy Since the syndrome affects males during prenatal development, women with CAIS normally aren't diagnosed until later in adolescence. Naturally, they are infertile due to having undeveloped testes instead of ovaries and a uterus. They may have a "Y" chromosome, but they are women in all other aspects.
How would I go about finding a woman with CAIS? Naturally, very few CAIS women come forward out of fear of being labelled as some sort of an anomaly or a genetic freak. I can't just come out and say that's what I'm looking for, or I look like I have some sort of gross fetish (which is a valid concern, I suppose). I just think these women would have a fascinating perspective on life. There's no hope for me, is there?
>just think these women would have a fascinating perspective on life weirdest justification for a fetish I've ever seen. stop being autistic and just go for tomboyish women
Oliver Evans
You're fetishizing a look and explicitly interested in someone's genetic abnormality that is not externally visible and you don't think that's wrong... how?
John Brooks
>hmm yes we’ll you see I just think that their perspective on life would be very interesting and unique but I’m totally not fetishising them *tips brim of hat* >incidentally they must have a TITE PUSSY, big breasts, no pubic hair!!! but yes this is merely me being simply enchanted and curious about these people and their perspective on the world
Mate you have a fetish they screams poor behavioural adjustment, just admit it.
Juan Jenkins
They aren't necessarily tomboys, though. They are very much women in appearance and behavior. It's just that they have an incredibly rare condition.
>You're fetishizing a look and explicitly interested in someone's genetic abnormality that is not externally visible and you don't think that's wrong... how? I never said it was right, and I acknowledge it's creepy. I'm still fascinated by it. I also think you're doing these women a disservice by referring to their condition as an "abnormality."
I knew I would get a few hits with "tite pusy," but you took the bait hard. Look, those are the symptoms of CAIS. I also mentioned the nonsexual symptoms, which you chose to ignore. I never denied that my interest is probably messed up. They most likely would want to be treated as normal women, as they should. It wouldn't be a dealbreaker to know if a woman I was going out with had CAIS, though.
>they aren't necessarily tomboys yes, I'm aware. I said that though because your list describing them is entirely physical, implying you are drawn in based on their physical characteristics. the notion of you being "interested in their perspective" is just random and clearly secondary. I argue that you'd be happier and have an easier time going after tomboys
>abnormality that poster is completely justified. it's a genetic defect. an error. physically non-functioning receptors in their body. that is not the "norm" by any means. You shouldn't call the PERSON a "defect", but it is idiotic to suggest that their CONDITION isn't an abnormality.
>lol I was just baiting you fuck off. one minute you want to be serious and defend them by saying their condition isn't abnormal, the next you're joking about their malformed bodies.
to cut through the bullshit, I think people want to know why you ACTUALLY want these people. there is clearly something you aren't mentioning. their "unique perspective" is horseshit. I'm really just curious at this point. is it entirely physical, like some men with twinks or trans people? or is it mental?
Ethan Cruz
>your list describing them is entirely physical, implying you are drawn in based on their physical characteristics. the notion of you being "interested in their perspective" is just random and clearly secondary That list of characteristics are the symptoms of CAIS, but my interest in their world view is legitimate and is secondary to the physical aspects of CAIS. I just didn't know how to talk about CAIS without acknowleging the symptoms. >it is idiotic to suggest that their CONDITION isn't an abnormality Fair enough. It is, by definition, an abnormality. I just felt like the negative connotations of "abnormality" were a bit harsh. >one minute you want to be serious and defend them by saying their condition isn't abnormal, the next you're joking about their malformed bodies Look at where we are posting. The joke was made in poor taste. It was made to elicit a response, and it did. Sorry. Also, i wouldn't call their bodies malformed. Outwardly, they appear to be normal women. With the exception of the gonads, they are internally normal.
My interest in CAIS extends beyond the physical. You are welcome to believe that or not. There are plenty of physically attractive women who do not have CAIS. It is something that I've been fascinated with since reading up on it in school. I wouldn't be opposed to dating a woman with CAIS like I wouldn't reject a woman for not having CAIS. You act as if they're somehow not deserving of being in relationships on the basis of their affliction.
Michael Carter
>You act as if they're somehow not deserving don't put words in my mouth. I never implied anything close to that. I get that I'm ragging on you a bit, but come on.
you're also squirming around. in the OP, you literally say "How would I go about finding a woman with CAIS?". now you're moderating it a bit by saying you're just not "opposed to dating a woman with CAIS like I wouldn't reject a woman for not having CAIS", as if it was some incidental thing. No, you opened by saying you want to find them. Stop moving the goalposts. Stop putting words in my mouth.
This conversation is clearly shit for both of us. I'm going to be straight with you. This ain't an insult, just some real shit, because I'm taking what you say seriously. I'm going to guess you're kind of shut in, maybe a bit awkward or naive. I don't think you're toxic, but you have to realize one thing: there are terrible fucking people out there who purposefully seek out other people with afflictions. Feeders looking for obese people to worsen their obesity. Men looking for anorexic women to encourage their mental illness and worsen and maintain their condition. People looking for physically disabled people so they have more power over them. OBviously your case is different. I really do believe you and think you have some innocent weirdo attraction, and that's okay, just realize that when you go about asking how you meet people with disabilities, many people think you are like the people I just mentioned. that you're looking for someone who is weakened to take advantage of them. phrase it any way you want, add as many disclaimers as you want, but you just sound weird to people when you ask this. I think you'll treat them with respect, so I hope you do have a nice relationship with one. Just be aware you can sound like a creep to many people when you look for those with some kind of abnormal condition
and stop being a slippery fuck when people talk to you. it's annoying. this is my last reply.
Asher Butler
Sounds like you’re a moron and an asshole, I don’t think it’s a good idea to restrict your dating pool so severely
Christopher King
>don't put words in my mouth. I never implied anything close to that. I get that I'm ragging on you a bit, but come on. I guess I was sort of reaching, but it was this remark that I was referring to: >I think people want to know why you ACTUALLY want these people. In reading it back, I know you were referring to me, but it had a different context when I initially read it. As for moving goalposts, it's not always easy to express everything you want in a single post. Sometimes you need the input of others to give the discussion a shape.
Look, I appreciate your candor. You're not too far off with your assessment of my personality (although I would like to think that I'm only slightly better off than most other anons asking for advice on this board). If I come off as slippery, it's because I did a lot of self-inquiry about my interest in CAIS before posting to Jow Forums. Am I fetishizing these women? Is it wrong to find CAIS attractive (ethically or morally)? If I dated a CAIS woman, would my interest in her be solely due to CAIS? Would anybody even care about this? I would hope my situation would be different than someone preying on another person with a disability or illness since CAIS is neither. Given the visceral responses in this thread, I guess I was wrong. I mean, I knew it was weird. I just didn't realize how apparently alone I am in this. Thanks again for your replies.
Liam Garcia
I apologize for my overly-aggressive speaking style. I utilize it to get to my points quickly, but I didn't mean to insult you so much. You're not slippery. It's easy in online convos for two people to misunderstand each other, so I shouldn't have been so harsh. You're way better than what I characterized you as. I just know some people who live shit lives from various afflictions, and if someone ever tried to prey on them, I would react....negatively. I unjustly transferred some of that here when I shouldn't have
to answer your original question, maybe look to online support or chat groups where people vent about their conditions. You may actually find someone venting about being lonely because of their CAIS. they might just be looking for an open minded guy such as yourself. just...... make sure to not be too straightforward, or you'll seem kinda sleazy. maybe integrate yourself into the community by showing an interest in their lives (you already are quite curious) first.
Luis Gomez
Yeah no, there are enough stigmas for "healthy functioning individuals" that persue relationships with disabled individuals. Being an assumedly healthy functioning individual and persuing one specific genetic defect out of the entire dating pool is capital Alien.
Parker Wilson
I know you said you weren't going to post again, but thanks.
Charles Diaz
I'm only just now realizing this. Again, the responses have been eye-opening in a way that I wasn't entirely expecting. I wonder if expressing a desire to date a woamn with heterochromia would have gotten as much heat.
No, because heterochromia can be associated with various deleterious conditions, the coloration alone is not profoundly damaging. CAIS on the other hand is extremely serious on multiple levels. On a psychological level, the individual cannot biologically have children, which can be really hurtful to some people. On a physical level, CAIS can also bring kidney stones, weakened bones at risk for fracturing, and painful hernias. In that sense they're really, really different
Jaxon Kelly
Meant to say: No, WHILE heterochromia can be associated with various deleterious conditions, the coloration alone is not profoundly damaging
Ryan Johnson
If you made it obvious you were an an insane person and very misogynist.
Mason Perry
>On a psychological level, the individual cannot biologically have children, which can be really hurtful to some people. I would argue that discovering you were born genetically male but have a woman's body is even more psychologically challenging, but point taken. >On a physical level, CAIS can also bring kidney stones, weakened bones at risk for fracturing, and painful hernias. These ailments are not exclusive to women with CAIS. In fact, the psychological and physical challenges these women face do not elevate CAIS to the level of debilitating handicap or illness. With the proper treatment, these women lead active lives and live normal lifespans.
Wyatt Clark
Increased cancer risk, bone fractures, possible gender dysphoria, dubious surgeries to create full vaginas, inability to have children, painful hernias.
>not a debilitating handicap read the definition of a disability. what if someone really wants to have a family? what if their osteoporosis causes fractures that leaves them with nerve and muscle damage that limited their range of movement? I take back what I said dude, holy shit you sound like a major douchebag just brushing it off. I'd love to see you approach one and lecture them how their illness is not that bad. Christ above, what is wrong with you. Stay away from them. Instead of helping them cope you'd just say "it's not that bad" and talk about their tits and tight vagina.
Also, you need to get it through your skull that just because someone with a disease can live a "full active life" doesn't mean it's a non-issue. People infected with HIV can live a full life, but they have to be constantly under a massive regimen of drugs to keep the virus at bay. In CAIS, they have to be constantly monitored for tumors and bone density, and receive psych counseling at the minimum.
Stop pretending to be well read on this. As a medfag I should have curb stomped out your idiotic notions on the first post. Creepy fetishist fuck.
Luis Robinson
>what if someone really wants to have a family? They look into adoption or surrogacy like other infertile women? >what if their osteoporosis causes fractures that leaves them with nerve and muscle damage that limited their range of movement? That is the result of osteoporosis. It may be related to CAIS, but osteoporosis also also affects people without CAIS.
I'm not attempting to minimize the impact of CAIS on women who discover they have it. I can't begin to imagine how life-altering the diagnosis is. On the other hand, comparing CAIS to HIV shows how little people understand about CAIS. CAIS is not contagious. It is not a disease, because it does not need to be "cured." I've tried to read up on CAIS, but what literature I've researched can't possibly cover everything in what is (I'm guessing) is a specialized field. It may require more treatment than the average person receives, but I doubt that any CAIS woman sees herself as "sick" or disabled due to a genetic anomaly. CAIS doesn't make them weak or enfeebled. They probably wouldn't appreciate either of us arguing about them like they were pieces on a game board (although I would like to believe I have a greater stake in the comversation).
You know what? They don't need either of us to come to their defense and protect them. You're right: I'm a huge sicko for expressing an interest in women with a rare genetic mutation. I think it's great that you act as a guardian for the people who suffer from illnesses in your life and want to keep them safe. I can only say I'm sorry if my words failed to properly convey my intentions. Actively pursuing a relationship with a woman with CAIS was a bad idea.
Noah Martin
I think that would have been another one that would have gotten you labeled as quirky, but not like "wtf" because it's just eye color. Your affinity to CAIS is like "I want a natural born intersex but female presenting individual to like me back." The starbucks equivalent of ordering an iced coffee but asking for the ice to be on the bottom of the cup only.
