it's kinda ruining a lot of relationships form, but i just cant win an argument with anyone even though technically, I won. What they say i do is botn stubborn and want to always be right (isn't that basically saying they want to always be right?)
so basically i'm always on point, never get distracted from the topic, and know all the arguments for my position, the counter arguments an the counter to those counter arguments. i just think a lot all the time and all my ideas have been put through a lot of testing and overanalizing because i just cant not over think things. the point is i am good at defending my opinions and fast at point out logical fallacies. and this just makes people hate me, think i'm too stubborn, can't be argued with, mr. always right and showing off how much of a know itball i am. i guess i get it people don't want to lose all the time. but what am i supposed to do ? just not defend my position and take the beating ? i kinda resigned to not argue with anyone. but even then they actively ask for my opinions and for me to explain myself. just to be frustrated and called the usual stubborn cant be dealt with always. getting the enraging " okey okey your right and i'm wrong just shut up !" WHY ARE YOU SHUTTING ME DOWN LIKE THIS WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE TO INITIATE THE CONVO ASKING FOR MY SIDE ! what do these people want from me ?! plz help
How do you argue with normies
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You sound autistic
Normies are actually retarded it’s not just pretending when a normie talks about GMOs cause cancer they are actually in a moral crisis where they believe scientists are trying to give all the normies cancer to improve the gene pool.
I'm 26 now, but when I was younger I felt a lot like you. Most well adjusted people don't regard arguments as win/lose- it sounds like you probably get very pedantic about the way that people explain things, attacking logical fallacies one at a time as they come up, rather than making an overall defensible point. If you're approaching things this way, you're probably just pissing people off and they don't want to deal with you. Consider that arguments are really a way for you to meet in the middle with someone else, and that virtually no one (most likely including yourself) just admits defeat and instantly changes their opinion, especially when the other person is being a belligerent fuck. Also consider that your arguments are probably not as watertight as you think they are and are very entrenched in your internal logical system.
Most day-to-day arguments are about muh fee fees rather than logic. You can be right from a logical perspective but people won't listen because their feelings are of more importance. The winning move is not to play.
It sounds like you are vastly overestimating your intellect and knowledge. Nobody likes a know-it-all pseudointellectual. What subjects are you arguing about?
first of all, how old are you?
Pick your fights.
It is NOT absolutely necessary to "win" every conversation.
In fact, you could define "normal" as being happy to live among differences of opinion
>In fact, you could define "normal" as being happy to live among differences of opinion
nice pre-made bull statement faggot
now tell him being happy is a choice
>It is NOT absolutely necessary to "win" every conversation.
i don't think the source of his frustration is not "winning", since he's not technically losing and probably he's actually wining as he seems to be pretty autistic
he's frustrated because he doesn't fucking understand that an argument is not seen as an intellectual activity by most people but rather it's taken as a matter of social dominance, that's why they always make sure they have the last word and undermine his arguments or intentions by directly mocking him, because they are not autistic like OP, they don't have to be the most intellectually fit, they just have to make sure they are standing better in the end
it's his fault for trying to argue with normies in the first place, it's fucking pointless, even if he's actually smart and have well crafted arguments (which i seriously doubt), it doesn't matter because they will never be playing by the same rules
and this is clearly represented in your post:
>Pick your fights.
^ this is why i asked for his age first, because it's not the same being a highschooler throwing tantrums, or being in an academic environment, like here come debate me if you are that smart boy
I feel you OP. I got same thing. Personally I just don't bother starting. People just are too emotional about what they believe.
Just state your views and if they insist on knowing why then warn them about your autistic approach and how they might feel uncomfortable. If they agree then might as well go all out as you did nothing wrong socially if they agreed to hear you out.
How old are you?
You think you got the entire world figured out at the age of 19?
Like someone said here, arguments are not supposed to be about winning or losing.
Also when arguing I do it to improve and test my ideas because I understand that I'm flawed and internal logic can be flawed and biased so I want outside views but normies can't grasp that concept. Natural curiosity and self-improvement is an alien thing.
It’s probably the way you argue rather than your point.
I see arguments as an opportunity to expose myself to a different perspective. I try to really consider what the other person is saying and why they are saying it, and likewise I express my own perspective.
The thing is that for many issues, there isn’t a “right or wrong” answer, so you can’t really “win/lose”.
Obviously some people are just idiots and will try with all their might to tell you the sky is red. It’s not even worth trying to convince those people because they’re just blatantly wrong about something that is actually pretty objective. There’s no point in going all autist and breaking down every meta theory that explains why the sky is blue, and doing so is just tedious and annoying and it makes you look like an idiot even if you are “correct”. It’s better to shrug something like that off and say something like “I don’t think so dude. Pretty much everyone agrees that the sky is blue and there’s a lot of evidence to back it up.”
Even if you HAVE the data and logic and information to back it up, information doesn't objectively win arguments. It takes other skills too.
Think about logos/pathos/ethos. Communication skills are tied a lot to reading other people and appealing not only to logic but to emotion and values.
That’s the only way you can actually “win” an argument- balancing those three correctly for your target.
Otherwise, are you really “winning” anything? Based on what you currently do, The result is that you pissed off everyone around you and even if they shared your opinion to begin with, they probably are less inclined to side with you because of how terrible your delivery was. What a worthless “win”. It would be more of a “win” to keep your mouth shut completely so that people don’t get annoyed at you.
I'd be very surprised if OP's age didn't start with 1.
I forgot to add: he's winning as in having a more solid discourse, but the reason he made this post is because he takes his intellect as a way of appealing to his vanity, hence he wants to be recognized as the winner by others
same primal motive, different approach
Congratulations OP, you're close to learning that "winning" arguments gain zero social capital. Arguments are sources of tension and conflict. If you want friends or positive social outcomes, don't argue. The true winner of an argument is who looks better afterwards, not who had the better logical approach and most reasoned (aka autistic) talking points.
More likely than not the presentation of your argument. I used to debate all the time and it was good fun, sometimes even arguing points I dont stand for just to improve my skill. Thing is your not attacking the person, you'r trying to convince the to your point of view. I believe you are likely aggressive in the delivery and make personal attacks so that you can be seen as the clear winner when that is not the point of debating/arguing.
Learnt to persuasive writing before debating.
I don’t, you guys get so fucking Reeee’d out that it’s more fun to see user’s saying what they want.
nah they probably notice him getting more and more tense or anxious so they laugh at him or feel him as some kind of weird treat so they get annoyed
we all know that guy
Only stupid people can't be wrong.
You are stubborn if you can't admit being wrong.
I was talking with someone who abuses their kid and she can't even comprehend that it is wrong. She admitted fault once, then said she didn't right after and immediately projected the shit onto me.
I think the people you have trouble with may be psychologically broken.
A true educated person can accept when they are wrong. Otherwise they are biased and arrogant stupid people.
No scientist can say they are 100% right anytime at all. You can make a clear distinction between these 2 types of people quite easily. If you go to school, you can find smart people. Smart jobs with degrees too. Like everyone else everywhere is so fucking stupid that it blows my mind. I think you just need to find new people to talk to.
You sound like one of the stupid ones
From this post alone I can tell you’re doomed to a lonely autistic lifestyle. Don’t alienate the few friends you have left, talk about normie bullshit, most people at my college don’t follow or care about politics/philosophy/etc.
The normies get cancer for the tax money. Or the CEO's pockets.
That's how arguments work
Someone plays the "I don't want to play anymore"-card, and the argument is over.
That's not really about winning or losing
So I'm not supposed to stop the pain of abuse that affects me through empathy?
You sound like a psycho
Also, people like to bullshit
Arguments are not an opportunity to show off your intellectual prowess.
Anyone who approaches them as such is either a teenager or autistic
>What they say i do is botn stubborn and want to always be right (isn't that basically saying they want to always be right?)
are you actually autistic?
from what you're saying you just sound so fucking obnoxious people don't want to talk to you anymore because they expected a normal convo and not your autism. you sound like you shill your ideology as the right one every time you talk to someone even if it's completely unrelated