Gender pay gap

My friend/coworker was recently hired along with 2 other guys. All 3 are straight out of college with zero experience.
The two guys are making exactly the same, and she's earning exactly 80% of that.
She asked me for advice about what to do and I dunno what to tell her. Should she ask for a raise to be on par with her peers or just find another place?

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There's no such thing as a gender pay gap. Either the two males are working for longer (keep in mind a lot of factors can play into why she is earning less) or the place their working at is purposely paying the girl less, if that's the case it's illegal.

If what she said is true then that's illegal, she can report it to whatever government agency deals with labor rights violations.

>There's no such thing as a gender pay gap.
80 = 100

no pay gap

You may not beable to answer this but did your female friend try and negotiate?

Stats have shown that most men try to negotiate their salary whereas most women do not.

>If what she said is true then that's illegal
no that is not illegal in most contexts. She could have said no, and she could still quit

god damn, you're both complete idiots on opposite sides of the spectrum

Meh. Women are more likely to get hired so it evens out.

Uh, what job is this?
Big issue is women not negotiating for higher salaries, though I don't really hear that often if you're straight out of school

tell her to think like a guy if it's getting in her way of thinking logically

Guys negotiate better than girls. The pay gap is a skills gap.

oh damn
>the equal pay act does not exist

This. There is a general 'gender pay gap' but its related to female dominated jobs being paid less in general and women wanting more flexibility in their working hours.

If they are working the same hours and doing the same job, they should be paid the exact same, its incredibly rare that this would happen as its illegal and looked down upon. I'd tell her not to kick up a fuss about it unless she knows for sure, but if its the case go to the fair work commission and lodge a complaint, cause it wont just fuck her up but everyone after her too.

It's a salaried position, all three work the same hours.

Wouldn't they just end up firing her and blacklisting her if she did that? I know there's agencies that look at that stuff, but they're not really effective are they?

I asked all three, and they all said they didn't negotiate. They all said they were desperate and literally would've taken anything since it's their first job.

Poster count of 4. Replies separately 3 times to make it look like multiple posters are agreeing with his own position.
Fuck off.

It's illegal to do this.
The gender pay gap does not exist in the form of same work lower pay.
Agreeing to it does not make it legal and the violation can still be reported by anyone else.

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I don't really believe you. You are being vague and now you're saying you spoke to each of them individually

Tell us the job, in the meantime she can bring up her pay when she gets her review. Not when recently hired. Why does she even know the salaries of her peers is this McDonald's? You never compare salaries this is the symptom of a toxic workplace. They all deserve to be canned.

I believe that she'd be protected by law once the agency steps in, making her even harder to fire, but she can always talk to the people that work there about what would happen after they interfere. These agencies have to police hundreds of thousands if not millions of companies, that people don't know their rights is why a lot of them get away with work violations.

Software development at a small, private company

There was no negotiation with any of them
All three took the offer they were initially given
And none of them have any experience or technical skills to speak of
I know this because I'm mentoring all 3 right now

Do that complaints even get taken seriously?

What am I being vague about? The topic of average pay came up today and all 4 of us decided to tell each other or salaries. She grew bright red from embarrassment when it was her turn.
She's honestly not even considering that it's a gender thing, she thinks she's just stupid, but she's clearly not.

I would tell her to suck it up, work 2 years and leave. She'll get an caseload more money next time, being a woman with experience

Let me guess, she's a chemical engineer going into an old area of manufacturing like oil or paper.

I feel like you or her in telling you are leaving out t a crucial detail somewhere.

Are you absolutely sure they do the same exact work? If the company knew they were hiring 3 women at 80% of the cost of 3 men, especially in something like software dev, why wouldn't they hire all women?

I have a feeling she has to be more of a people person or something but you can make your case.

She needs to negotiate for a raise.
Women do this less often or less effectively.

The company will likely oblige if she is worth her weight in salt, especially due to the pain of having to retrain and onboard a new hire AND the fact that they already have two new people.

Now is the time to negotiate

Get some paystubs as evidence if you're going to complain to authorities. Odds are the dudes decided to bullshit because they didn't want to look like they earn less than the other, and whoever spoke second just said 'yeah ditto' and idiot girl just thinks she's the odd one out. It is illegal and complaints, while it might take some time, do actually hit someone's desk.

If you want it to go faster hire a lawyer and sue, and see how fast the employer changes their tune.

So I just read up on the Equal Pay Act and it seems like it would apply. I highly doubt it works in real life though, there's no way she could afford a lawyer good enough to fight the company lawyers.
Unless someone said "okay guys she's a woman so let's pay her less because that's the company policy" on an email they'll just find an excuse for lowballing her then fire her for causing trouble.

Yeah that's what I'm leaning towards.
No she's a fullstack webdev, but it is in the oil industry. Lots of "good ol boys" around here.

Well one detail I didn't mention is she was actually hired 5 months before they were. Maybe starting salaries changed in that time?
Also she is the the daughter of one of the project managers. Maybe they just secretly hate him?
But no, in terms of capability they're all pretty much the same. In fact she's currently taking over a very important system of a guy who just retired. Like I said though, she's been here for 5 more months than the other guys.

Could she actually request a 20% raise though?
I've been working for 6 years and only ever got like 5% max each year. Usually only get a significant bump by switching jobs.

It sounds like she can lodge a complaint if management doesn't address her complaint to them in a sufficient enough manner, but if she is not in a really liberal state/area her likelihood of being fired for it is high.

She should switch companies after a year, ask for a raise when she has shown a good job after 6months to a year, or just let it go. Even though she has grounds for a real govt complaint it doesn't mean the company won't fight back. It's just like landlording, the law says one thing but few people actually follow it all the way to the end.

There's no way the guys are getting involved and giving her a paystub. That's a big risk for no gain for them.
Also, the other guy instantly knew the exact yearly pay when the first one just said hourly, and I don't think he's THAT good at math.
Anyways, have you ever heard of a complaint actually working? Because I haven't.
As I said before, what good would getting a single lawyer do if they have an entire legal team?

There are no "authorities" and lodging a "complaint" is a good way to get canned for an "unrelated" reason. This kind of bs is why companies learn to pay femmes less. You grow balls and take what is yours. She can just walk in and ask why those bozos are making more. She'll get some kind of answer.

No idea what job she has but in software engineering you have to negotiate for pay. I could easily be making 80% of my peers but I don't know honestly. The nice thing about it though is it allows you to negotiate for things you personally really want. More vacation time for instance, now not every place will accept that of course but that's the game.

>There was no negotiation with any of them
Then she should work hard, gain the experience and training and keep looking for another job

when she gets a better paying job and they ask why, she can say. "You paid me less right off the bat, why would I show loyalty to a company that does not value me? Thanks for the training"

no problem

No that's not a good idea user. Hardly anyone does "equal" work. Everyone is different and contributes a different amount to the team. Some people contribute more than others and deserve more pay. That's not necessarily how it works out though because it is not easy to measure that. And of course people do let their own opinions on people get in the way which of course means sexism is possible but so are other judgements like just being quiet or the way you look. I don't see how making sure everyone is paid equally solves much of anything. People should be paid fairly not equally.

True. In this day and age there is no backlash for firing an employee. At-will employment gives all the power to the employer. Even if you have a contract, demanding more money for your labor is a super-easy way to get shitcanned for 'not fulfilling demands of the job'. It's rough, but this is really why you don't talk about earnings. If anyone makes even slightly more than you, you will feel worse.

>Usually only get a significant bump by switching jobs.
That's what you need to do honestly. And then in the exit interview tell them you were underpaid. It will force them to correct their mistake or risk the same shit happening again. I got a new job as a software engineer and legitimately got a 20% raise just from being willing to leave.

A lot of people will tell you to never accept counter offers from current jobs. It just gives them time to find someone else when you just rejected a potential raise by switching.

Did you switch or stay?

Actually I didn't mean a counteroffer. I never got one. What I mean is in the future they will not hire a woman at 80% of the men if she is good and they want to keep her. Basically make it clear you are leaving because they decided to be cheap instead of smart.

Okay yeah then I agree 100%.

I've pretty much only worked in public sector since I was 23 so I've never really negotiated a job offer beyond my first $15/hr job. If I go private I'd make more that way though.

>Also she is the the daughter of one of the project managers. Maybe they just secretly hate him?

Or know they can fuck family harder

Doubt it's that, one of the two guys is the son of an architect that passed away years ago. The other guy has no connections. They both are making the same.

fuck off it's not funny when it's too obvious
gimme something to get mad to type an entire walltext

>used to work at a school as an entry-level child care assistant
>get trained and eventually get promoted to child care worker
>new, male child care assistant comes in making the same as me from the start
>point it out
>boss tells me if I don't like it, I should go above and beyond what I'm already doing
>say I'll quit instead
>I was one of the few water safety, first aid, cpr, etc trained workers, so they would have to cancel a bunch of field trips
>he offers an 80 cent raise and not a penny higher
>end up just quitting
>he tried to offer a dollar raise when I came in for my last check

First and only time I've ever had to complain about a pay gap.